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Was Nirvana really part of the Grunge scene

shahrilshahril Posts: 288
edited December 2005 in Other Music
i thought of posting this on The Porch since it does have a heavy connection to PJ but hey, we all know about the self righteous bunch around here.. ;)

anyhow, i somehow get the picture that Nirvana as a band was really bigger than the scene itself. dont get me wrong i think theyre major-ly overrated, but did they let the success get to their heads and stuff? Did they hang out with the other big 3 at least (PJ, SG, AIC) the way those 3 bands evidently were 'fond' of one another. u know, watching each other's shows (or was that only during the really early days?) and TOTD etc etc?

just wanted to know more cos I am a relatively late Jammer, being born in 85. im more gen Y than X i suppose. heh. when i first got into pj i was real eager to know about how the seattle/grunge scene was then i realised it may have taken precedence over the music. anyways, help from old school jammers with 3 kids? please? :D
I've seen so many people try and copy Eddie Vedder's voice. It's as if if you don't sound like him you're not a man. - Emmett Roslan

http://theshahril.blogspot.com

London 20/04/2006
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • hailhail82hailhail82 Posts: 330
    Well I'm not too much older than you and I don't have any kids but I've been a fan for over 10 years of both bands, and I wouldn't discount Nirvana from the "Seattle scene" at all. They grew up as a band opening for Mudhoney, the Melvins, etc. They toured with Pearl Jam in '91 or '92, I'm too lazy to look it up (though that had less to do with them than the Chili Peppers). Maybe a few years later they grew out of the "scene" due to Kurt's personality but they were definately in the same circle as many other bands early on. I say scene in the loosest of uses, BTW. If you're interested in that whole thing, check out the movie Hype!. It's great.
    Using the word "methinks" in your message board posts doesn't make you look smart.
  • OmaramaOmarama Posts: 267
    well it is considered to be.i was a little kid during the grunge scene and didn't live in the U.S .but i would say yes
    Monty Got a Raw Deal

    " makes much more sense to live in the present tense "
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    i don't think they had a close relationship w/ AIC, PJ or SG but they seemed to w/ Sonic Youth. I thought Nevermind was good but a little overrated...i thought in utero was muuuuch better, same w/ unplugged and insestiside
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • darthvedder88darthvedder88 Posts: 1,023
    Well, I don't know about their relationship with Soundgarden, but I know Kurt felt Pearl Jam were sellouts until he saw the video for Jeremy and actually listened to Ten, then he gained respect for them. As for AIC, I don't think he had anything against them to say the least...I do recall in an interview with Layne Staley, that Layne claimed his band was hanging out with Nirvana in between shows, and said Kurt talked a lot about his daughter, then a few weeks later Kurt was dead and Layne said it blew his mind.
    "Darth Vader would say 'Impressive'."

    -Eddie Vedder

    6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
    6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Well "Grunge" was the title corporate mainstream labeled Nirvana.. so yes, they were "Grunge".
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    Well "Grunge" was the title corporate mainstream labeled Nirvana.. so yes, they were "Grunge".


    i can't remember what nirvana cd it is but it had a cover of corporate execs in a limo...maybe it was a sub pop compilation...
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • verb_to_trustverb_to_trust Posts: 178
    If you read a book about Nirvana like "Come as You Are" it will shed a lot of light on the bands Nirvana was closely associated with. Sonic Youth and The Melvins immediatley jump to mind.

    I remember reading in an interview with either Lane or Kurt that Kurt got a ride home from Lane once.

    Kurt hated people and socializing, so I doubt he was a cheerleader for other bands and some kind on comrad whore to them all.
  • shahrilshahril Posts: 288
    verb_to_trust wrote:
    If you read a book about Nirvana like "Come as You Are" it will shed a lot of light on the bands Nirvana was closely associated with. Sonic Youth and The Melvins immediatley jump to mind.

    I remember reading in an interview with either Lane or Kurt that Kurt got a ride home from Lane once.

    Kurt hated people and socializing, so I doubt he was a cheerleader for other bands and some kind on comrad whore to them all.

    Kurt hated people and socializing? Is that just part of the image he wanted to paint about himself? He was disturbed yes, but I find myself very sceptical of this hate people hate media hate fame thing. although kurt and layne in a car goes a long way in answering my initial question. thks
    I've seen so many people try and copy Eddie Vedder's voice. It's as if if you don't sound like him you're not a man. - Emmett Roslan

    http://theshahril.blogspot.com

    London 20/04/2006
  • elmerelmer Posts: 1,683
    shahril wrote:
    i thought of posting this on The Porch since it does have a heavy connection to PJ but hey, we all know about the self righteous bunch around here.. ;)

    anyhow, i somehow get the picture that Nirvana as a band was really bigger than the scene itself. dont get me wrong i think theyre major-ly overrated, but did they let the success get to their heads and stuff? Did they hang out with the other big 3 at least (PJ, SG, AIC) the way those 3 bands evidently were 'fond' of one another. u know, watching each other's shows (or was that only during the really early days?) and TOTD etc etc?

    just wanted to know more cos I am a relatively late Jammer, being born in 85. im more gen Y than X i suppose. heh. when i first got into pj i was real eager to know about how the seattle/grunge scene was then i realised it may have taken precedence over the music. anyways, help from old school jammers with 3 kids? please? :D
    Nirvana were the band that every type of person could like, someone into dance/hip-hop might of said " I like that song" without registering even who they were, but they probably were aware it was nirvana......its simply that the tunes became ubiquitous. However, nirvana were seen as The grunge band with the others joining the slipstream that they opened. That is how it was generally viewed at the time, most people could listen to ´Nevermind´
    , but if you played them some mudhoney they´d think it total shit. Pearl jam´s classic rock leanings always ensured them a foot in and out of the door.........................so, Nirvana were very much grunge
  • anarchist_grungeranarchist_grunger Posts: 161
    nirvana is as "grunge" as pearl jam, soundgarden, sonic youth, TOTD, alice in chains, mudhoney are...i don't see the point of this discussion...they were a vital part of the seattle scene
    "It was a kind of a sick, disturbed rock opera - if Nietzsche were to write a rock opera,"-Jeff Ament about Eddie's first three songs

    I've had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine now.
    Push me pull me. See ya later

    <present tense inhabiter #0003 & Even Flow psycho #0036>
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    darthvedder88 wrote:
    Well, I don't know about their relationship with Soundgarden, but I know Kurt felt Pearl Jam were sellouts until he saw the video for Jeremy and actually listened to Ten, then he gained respect for them. As for AIC, I don't think he had anything against them to say the least...I do recall in an interview with Layne Staley, that Layne claimed his band was hanging out with Nirvana in between shows, and said Kurt talked a lot about his daughter, then a few weeks later Kurt was dead and Layne said it blew his mind.
    but have you seen cobain's journals? he was a fan of green river if you look so to call Pearl Jam sell-outs and bandwagon jumpers is so hypocritical when they are direct descendents of one of his favourite bands
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 5,931
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    but have you seen cobain's journals? he was a fan of green river if you look so to call Pearl Jam sell-outs and bandwagon jumpers is so hypocritical when they are direct descendents of one of his favourite bands

    so you have to like every band that band members are in?
    green river split because half of them wanted to stay underground and the other half wanted commercial fame. when any band wants commercial fame they're going to get labled as a sell out by the ignorant-holier-than-thou-18-year-old-college-male who doesnt know what selling out is
    350x700px-LL-d2f49cb4_vinyl-needle-scu-e1356666258495.jpeg
  • shahrilshahril Posts: 288
    anarchist_grunger wrote:
    nirvana is as "grunge" as pearl jam, soundgarden, sonic youth, TOTD, alice in chains, mudhoney are...i don't see the point of this discussion...they were a vital part of the seattle scene

    yeah they were noone's questioning that. like someone said earlier, grunge to an extent was a label that revolved around the commercial success of nirvana. the question was, were they 'tight' with the other big 3. or were they just bigger than the scene itself. of course nirvana was grunge..but were they 'in' the scene. read my original post maybe ull get what i mean.
    I've seen so many people try and copy Eddie Vedder's voice. It's as if if you don't sound like him you're not a man. - Emmett Roslan

    http://theshahril.blogspot.com

    London 20/04/2006
  • anarchist_grungeranarchist_grunger Posts: 161
    shahril wrote:
    but were they 'in' the scene. read my original post maybe ull get what i mean.


    oh, ok, my bad...sorry...well...i don't live in seattle, but i think that untill nevermind they were "in" the scene
    "It was a kind of a sick, disturbed rock opera - if Nietzsche were to write a rock opera,"-Jeff Ament about Eddie's first three songs

    I've had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine now.
    Push me pull me. See ya later

    <present tense inhabiter #0003 & Even Flow psycho #0036>
  • shahrilshahril Posts: 288
    anarchist_grunger wrote:
    oh, ok, my bad...sorry...well...i don't live in seattle, but i think that untill nevermind they were "in" the scene

    yeah thats what i suspected too...nevermind changed things quite a bit..thanks! and happy new years ;)
    I've seen so many people try and copy Eddie Vedder's voice. It's as if if you don't sound like him you're not a man. - Emmett Roslan

    http://theshahril.blogspot.com

    London 20/04/2006
  • anarchist_grungeranarchist_grunger Posts: 161
    shahril wrote:
    happy new years ;)


    thanks a lot ;)
    "It was a kind of a sick, disturbed rock opera - if Nietzsche were to write a rock opera,"-Jeff Ament about Eddie's first three songs

    I've had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine now.
    Push me pull me. See ya later

    <present tense inhabiter #0003 & Even Flow psycho #0036>
  • melrnmelrn Posts: 20
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_River_%28band%29

    Interesting read.
    Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.
  • verb_to_trustverb_to_trust Posts: 178
    shahril wrote:
    Kurt hated people and socializing? Is that just part of the image he wanted to paint about himself? He was disturbed yes, but I find myself very sceptical of this hate people hate media hate fame thing. although kurt and layne in a car goes a long way in answering my initial question. thks


    Initially they were part of the scene in the Bleach days and early on inthe Nevermind era. But after that he became a reclusive drug addict whom even his own band members barely spoke to.

    And I think this is fair to say

    have you ever had a girlfriend who wanted to monopolize all your time and you found yourself never seeing your buddies anymore? Multiply that times 500 with Kurt and that crazy hosebag bitch Courtney.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    El_Kabong wrote:
    i can't remember what nirvana cd it is but it had a cover of corporate execs in a limo...maybe it was a sub pop compilation...


    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0000035F0/ref=dp_primary-product-display_0/002-1983839-1762429?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=5174&s=music
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Richy_FaceliftologyRichy_Faceliftology Posts: 29
    melrn wrote:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_River_%28band%29

    Interesting read.

    Wikipedia is actually a brilliant site...its has everything!
  • shahrilshahril Posts: 288
    Richy_Faceliftology wrote:
    Wikipedia is actually a brilliant site...its has everything!

    yeah its unreal... i spend way too much time there... should get back to ebaumsworld and jokaroo soon..
    hehe
    I've seen so many people try and copy Eddie Vedder's voice. It's as if if you don't sound like him you're not a man. - Emmett Roslan

    http://theshahril.blogspot.com

    London 20/04/2006
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    Considering that grunge was a marketing term and not a scene...no, Nirvana was not part of a "grunge" scene. That is what they were called by the bean counters in order to sell records.
    new music: http://www.myspace.com/blackbirdsymphonique

    old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
  • shahrilshahril Posts: 288
    enharmonic wrote:
    Considering that grunge was a marketing term and not a scene...no, Nirvana was not part of a "grunge" scene. That is what they were called by the bean counters in order to sell records.

    grunge was not 100% a marketing tool. it has its roots in the fact that the 'pure' grunge bands were seattle based. for me, also, grunge wasnt so much the sound, but the attitude that conveyed so much sincerity and honesty in the music. a fuck all attitude, but one that always had integrity in mind. And for that, an aspect of grunge, in fact the most important one for me personally, will always live among those who hold true to those principles. In that respect, pearl jam are every bit as grunge now as they were before.
    I've seen so many people try and copy Eddie Vedder's voice. It's as if if you don't sound like him you're not a man. - Emmett Roslan

    http://theshahril.blogspot.com

    London 20/04/2006
  • melrnmelrn Posts: 20
    shahril wrote:
    grunge was not 100% a marketing tool. it has its roots in the fact that the 'pure' grunge bands were seattle based. for me, also, grunge wasnt so much the sound, but the attitude that conveyed so much sincerity and honesty in the music. a fuck all attitude, but one that always had integrity in mind. And for that, an aspect of grunge, in fact the most important one for me personally, will always live among those who hold true to those principles. In that respect, pearl jam are every bit as grunge now as they were before.

    Don't forget the flannel.

    Grunge is a fashion style. Like it or hate it, there's no disputing it.

    Grunge=flannel
    Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.
  • BUENABUENA Posts: 165
    shahril wrote:
    i thought of posting this on The Porch since it does have a heavy connection to PJ but hey, we all know about the self righteous bunch around here.. ;)

    anyhow, i somehow get the picture that Nirvana as a band was really bigger than the scene itself. dont get me wrong i think theyre major-ly overrated, but did they let the success get to their heads and stuff? Did they hang out with the other big 3 at least (PJ, SG, AIC) the way those 3 bands evidently were 'fond' of one another. u know, watching each other's shows (or was that only during the really early days?) and TOTD etc etc?

    just wanted to know more cos I am a relatively late Jammer, being born in 85. im more gen Y than X i suppose. heh. when i first got into pj i was real eager to know about how the seattle/grunge scene was then i realised it may have taken precedence over the music. anyways, help from old school jammers with 3 kids? please? :D


    Many douchebags on this site will say that nirvana was over rated and not apart of the "seattle scene"... however, they were. I don't know if they were close to any bands but I do remember seeing a lot of Nirvana vs. Pearl Jam stuff. Kurt always used to shoot his mouth off.

    but make no mistake... Nevermind was (and still is) a great record. For a brief moment in time it opened the door to a lot of new bands and killed off a lot of lame ones.
    "It's the American Dream I am disbelieving... When the gas in my tank feels like money in the bank... I’m gonna blow it all this time, take me one last ride..." - Gone (vedder)
  • reeferchiefreeferchief Posts: 3,569
    melrn wrote:
    Don't forget the flannel.

    Grunge is a fashion style. Like it or hate it, there's no disputing it.

    Grunge=flannel

    Grunge is just so loose of a music label its slack, i think a better question is what is grunge? its so blurred its unreal at the time it was said that Spin Doctors and 4 Non Blondes were grunge, due to there fashion sense, the flannel shirts are pretty much the one thing that links every band ever to be called grunge.

    if you were to say grunge was the seattle scene, where does that leave Stone Temple Pilots? honoury Grungers.

    I much prefer the term alternative rock its much more accepting to a wider audience, and yes i do have 3 kids:D
    Can not be arsed with life no more.
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