acoustic combo amp
imnothere
Posts: 15
I'm in the market for one. Here's what I would like it to do:
1) Amplify my voice.
2) Amplify my guitar.
* at the same time *
I'd use it as a practice amp, so the wattage doesn't have to break windows. Also, I'd rather not add a permanent pickup to my Martin, as I like the instrument and don't much want someone peeling off the bridge and gluing it back on or boring out the end-pin hole. What I have in mind, instead, is using a second mic for the guitar. To that end, Guitar Center has a special on a mic package that includes an Audix OM5 and an Audix instrument mic. Any opinions on mics appreciated, as well
So here are the amps I'm looking at:
Marshall AS50D
Crate CA30DG Taos
and whatever the equivalent from Peavey might be.
Thank you for your responses.
1) Amplify my voice.
2) Amplify my guitar.
* at the same time *
I'd use it as a practice amp, so the wattage doesn't have to break windows. Also, I'd rather not add a permanent pickup to my Martin, as I like the instrument and don't much want someone peeling off the bridge and gluing it back on or boring out the end-pin hole. What I have in mind, instead, is using a second mic for the guitar. To that end, Guitar Center has a special on a mic package that includes an Audix OM5 and an Audix instrument mic. Any opinions on mics appreciated, as well
So here are the amps I'm looking at:
Marshall AS50D
Crate CA30DG Taos
and whatever the equivalent from Peavey might be.
Thank you for your responses.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
What should I be looking for? And a battery inside the body of the guitar for a preamp (L.R. Baggs model)? Really?
Wouldn't it just be easier to put a mic in front of the guitar?
Lordy this is confusing. Apologies for being a musical dolt.
JEFF HARDY AND JEFF AMENT USED TO LOOK THE SAME
"Pearl Jam always eases my mind and fires me up at the same time.”-Jeff Hardy
Fishman Loudbox is well spoken of.
Do plenty of reasarch before you commit to anything. There are plenty on unobtrusive pup options. I saw a new Gibson the other day with a pup I completely missed until it was shown to me. The tailpin connector looked just like a simple strap button.
I never wanted to cut a hole in my old acoustic for a pup, but that system would be fine, no holes or unsightly lumps of plastic.
My favorite Acoustic/Vocal combo amp ever is probably The SWR California Blonde.
That or a small PA system with a tube DI or preamp box.
When surfing ebay for guitars, I noticed buyers tend to stay away from Martins with pickups installed. So is the general feeling that one lowers the value of a high-end instrument by adding a pickup?
Then again, I don't much care, as I plan on keeping the guitar a good long time.
Anyway, here's my set-up plan, if I ever find the nads/ego/validation needed to attempt to play for an audience.
My Martin with a pickup (preamp in pickup)
cable to Para D.I. to amp
Shure SM58 to amp
What am I missing -- besides, you know, obvious talent?
1. Acoustic amp suggestions - I have been pretty impressed by the Fishman Loudbox amps, and would not hesitate to recommend them. I like the SWR acoustic amps, but I generally view SWR as less reliable. I would suggest the Genz Benz Shenandoah series.
The big problem here is that most acoustic amps provide one mic input and one instrument input; the mic input for a vocal mic, and the instrument input (1/4") for the guitar. If you truly want to avoid installing a pickup and use a mic instead, you'll have some trouble finding an acoustic amp with two mic inputs. It is possible, however, and there are some out there.
2. Pickup vs. mic - A microphone will indeed be easier, as it requires no alterations to the guitar itself. Also, a good microphone is ALWAYS a much more acurate reproduction of an acoustic's natural tone than any pickup.
The caveat is that you will almost always have problems with amplifying a mic on an acoustic guitar. The biggest issue is feedback. Using a condenser mic (which is best for acoustic applications), you will undoubtedly end up not being able to get a good output level from the guitar before it starts to squeak and squeal with feedback. This is as true with professional PA's as it is with a small amp in your bedroom. A pickup will give you much more volume output compared to a mic. Also, it takes a great deal of control to keep the guitar in the proper location relative to the mic, without moving side-to-side, forward, backward, or up and down. Moving as little as an inch can dramatically alter the way an acoustic sounds through a mic. These reasons are why almost every pro uses some sort of acoustic-electric for live performance.
3. Installing a pickup (and ruining a previously "pure" acoustic) - This is difficult, and it's not for me to tell you what to do. What I will do is lay out a few options, give you the pro's and con's, and let you decide.
The first thing is to put some sort of pickup (piezo, ribbon, contact pickup, etc) in the guitar, usually under the bridge saddle, in the soundhole, or mounted to the soundboard (the "top" of the guitar). Different pickups have different sounds, installation options, etc., and some even come paired with a small electret condenser that goes inside the body of the guitar and can be blended with the pickup. Keep in mind that the pickup still provides most of the punch and output (remember, avoiding feedback) and the mic is used to fill in the missing tones.
Now, we have a pickup providing a signal that can then be amplified. The problem that most acoustic pickups is that the output is so weak, it usually needs to be pre-amplified before it even leaves the guitar. This involves, at the very least, putting a battery inside the guitar to juice up the output level. This is not as intrusive as it sounds... if you could find such a setup at a music shop in your area, you'll see it's not a huge deal. They usually install a small clip inside the guitar, right against the neck joint, that holds the battery in place.
Of course, many pickups use an on-board preamp control panel that requires cutting a big gaping hole in the side of the body and replacing it with a plastic panel that houses volume and tonal controls. This is usually a factory-installed piece, however, and is rarely added with aftermarket pickups to regular acoustics. The final option for pre-amplifying an acoustic pickup is to use some sort of battery-powered booster right outside the guitar, either right at the output jack or within about a 10-foot cable's length. They have several options out there for just this sort of issue.
Some pickups, usually the ones that install in the soundhole, offer such controls on the surface of the pickup, or in some other location that doesn't require drilling the guitar. They can be hard to access, but they don't affect the acoustic integrity of the instrument.
Now, the last issue: cable output. Most acoustic-electrics, or acoustics retrofitted with a pickup, use an output jack through the endpin or on the side of the body. This does require drilling your guitar, and it's about the hardest decision this side of circumsizing your son. Will it be scarred for life, and resent you forever, or will it be the most efficient, neatest, most sanitary way? Your decision. I can tell you that drilling an endpin jack will hardly affect the acoustic integrity of the instrument. The tail of the guitar usually has a pretty big, sturdy block of wood that is already drilled to accept an endpin; even those without an endpin usually have that block so one could be added by the owner. Drilling that block out to pass an endpin output jack is not going to ruin the guitar. Neither will drilling a side-body jack, although a jack in that position is usually prone to cracking the body (no big block of wood to brace it).
The other option is to use a pickup with an instrument cable lead hardwired from the pickup, which would then run out the soundhole. This tends to be asthetically unpleasant, as there is a big black cable running out the soundhole (like seeing a tampon string in a bikini ad). However, it requires no drilling. This would likely preclude using an onboard preamp, so you would either need a strong passive pickup, or be willing to deal with a weak output level.
4. Acoustic DI box - I love the LR Baggs Para DI, it is an amazing little box and is the best acoustic guitar DI that I know of, short of expensive rack-mounted preamp/DI units. HOWEVER... a DI converts instrument signals into mic signal, so we again run into the problem of the acoustic amp not having two mic inputs.
Now, you can use the Para DI as a preamp... it will amplify your pickup's output (remember, use a SHORT 10-foot-or-less cable if your pickup is passive), shape the tone, and you can just plug the 1/4" output into the amp's instrument input. However, an acoustic amp has most of the same controls as the Para DI, so besides pre-amplifying, it doesn't have any advantages when used with an acoustic amp. It is, however, a good DI for plugging into a proper PA system.
*whew* I hope that helps! Any questions?
I can't thank you enough, man,
You saved me hours of Internet-eyeing agony.
Two thoughts:
1) Maybe I should just f-it all and invest in a second acoustic guitar with a built-in pickup and play the pure Martin at home.
2) I'm glad I have a daughter.
Thanks again.
Good to see you posting Mig. I do like the sound of the California Blonde and most of thier bass amps but as a company SWR's reliability does indeed suck balls. Thier Workingmans amps are some of the biggest crap bombs out there that I've ever dealt with.
I have a Schatten Design pickup (http://www.schattendesign.com/) installed in my acoustic, and it is an unobtrusive, low-impact pickup with pretty good sound quality. The pickup itself is a contact pickup which mounts to the inside of the guitar using either putty or mounting tape. It has a preamp that is integrated into the endpin jack (a standard piece; I think almost all of them are made by Fishman) and a 9-volt battery that is mounted inside a clip. The only modification performed to the guitar that is irreversible is the drilling of the endpin location to fit the jack. Everything else can easily be removed.
Any pickup that mounts to the soundhole is similarly low-impact. Many of these pickups are available with a hardwired lead to a 1/4" so you can completely avoid having to drill or maim the guitar, although I still recommend using some sort of active preamp as close to the pickup as possible. I would personally still use an on-board preamp jack with a battery. I also believe that any pickup mounted underneath the bridge saddle is fairly unobtrusive, seeing as how the worst possible outcome is you would need a new bridge cut.
The one nice thing about drilling the endpin jack is that almost every pickup manufacturer needs the exact same dimension drilled out to install their endpin jacks. That means that, even if someone bought the guitar from you and decided they wanted a different pickup, they would still need that hole drilled. And worst-case scenario, you can always leave the endpin jack in the guitar and remove everything else, pickup, wires, battery, etc. and just use the jack as a strap button.
So, that's my opinion. But it sounds like you have an emotional connection with your guitar that makes it difficult to alter it's mojo... and I completely understand that. I really think that getting another guitar for plugging in is probably a good option for you, so long as you have the scratch. I know that Taylors have the best plugged-in tone of any mass-produced acoustics straight from the factory, but there are so many guitars and aftermarket pickups that you need not be boxed into any one option.
As for Paco... SWR was a truly great, innovative company from its inception until the mid- to late-90's, when they started releasing cheaper amps, cutting corners, and selling out to Fender. The Redhead bass amps were unparalleled in their time, as were their speaker cabinets. Today, if you wanted that classic SWR bass sound, you'd be much better off looking at Eden amps and cabs... hell, even Ament switched to Ampeg cabinets a couple years ago because SWR went to shit, and he'd been with SWR for a decade or more.
Who the hell knows. I don't.
By accident, I drove by a Guitar Center today. Parked. Went to the acoustics room -- ah, and there were amps. Marshall, Roland, Crate, Fishman. I had the floor guy take down a pre-wired (or whatever they're called) Gibson with $1,400 marked on tag and a Martin of equal value. Plugged into the Fishman and . . . nothing but scratchy amp noise. Sales guy brought another chord, I plugged in, strummed some, and handed the Gibson back. Did not like.
The Martin was better. Just the same, I can't say I much cared for the sounds eminating forth. I got to thinking about your posted message. Which got me thinking more.
I like my guitar. I don't plan on selling it. There are very many musicians like yourself who know far, far more than me who have added pickups to their instruments. So if it's not going to mess with the sound or quality when I'm not plugged in, why not add a pickup to the guitar I'm learning on and like playing?
Truth told, brother, more than half the reason I'm looking into combo amps is to boost the volume of my never-used singing voice, which, as now, can't get above the guitar, yelp and caterwaul as I might. I know the amp won't make me a better singer, but at least I'll be able to hear what I need to improve.
Which brings me to this: After I stopped by the Guitar Center, I went to my first vocal lesson. The humiliation was lengthy and nearly complete, beginning with, "MY GAWD, YOU CAN'T EVEN HUM! CAN YOU AT LEAST SING 'HAPPY BIRTHDAY'? LET'S TRY 'HAPPY BIRTHDAY.' IS THAT IT? GAWWDDDD!"
I let the guy keep his teeth (happy birthday to you, shitbird), even paid him for the lesson, walked into the rest of the day, found a dark bar, lit a cigarette, and that was that. Except for a final thought: If I'm paying a guy who tries to teach people to sound like so-called Idols trying to sound like singers I care nothing for or about, why the f-- bother?
Again, I appreciate your posts. If I "talk" music, I almost feel like a musician. And that's a damn nice feeling.
Cheers.
Rupert Neve working with taylor... that can only be a good thing...
imnothere... no worries man, tell the guy you're not trying to sound like Axl Rose and Ronnie James Dio.
you'll get there, sounds like you would be happier with a small PA really.