Transcribing

Jam10

I want to start playing music including solos by ear and not rely on tabs and youtube. What is the best way to learn how to transcribe? I know just by doing it all the time will help but are there any tricks or pointers anybody can give? Obviously starting with easy 3 chord songs is a good way to start but how did you guys/girls get good at transcribing and playing by ear?

Thanks

Anon

I think there is going to be some differing opinions on this, and that's cool, love hearing others opinions..

I look at it like this. There are some awesome players around that don’t have any clue how theory or scales go, but can work out stuff by ear real easy, but I have never met the opposite (someone who knows lots of theory and can play great but has shit ears). Having a great feel (and good ears) is the most valuable skill on guitar, any good musician will tell you that. Now, of course everyone has some lessons and we all have to learn scales and stuff, but developing your ear is what usually sets the good player apart.

Think of it like this ok. When you hear a sound,, it goes into your ear/head. You noodle around for ages until you work out how to make that sound come out of our guitar. So what if it takes you a little while, you'll get there and next time you hear that sound you will find it pretty quickly. After doing this quite a bit it gets to the point where you can work out most songs pretty easily. And it is not just about the notes, it about the way the note is played, how loud of soft, played aggressively or softly, behind the beat or right on. That is the stuff you can’t get from tabs or anywhere else except listening.

And it goes deeper still. So once you can find all these sounds quickly you can take away the external source (the songs) and try to find the sounds inside yourself. This is what people mean when they talk about people playing from the heart, or with feel or any number of expressions that really mean - you know the sounds you are making are coming from somewhere inside. From the head or heart don’t matter, so long as it comes from inside you.

Start out with the easy stuff (chord songs), write down the order of the chords and maybe if you wanna, the structure (like verses, chorus, bridge)..
Make sure you are in tune..(yeah, i know it's obvious, but think of how much of the older tunes we like to play around with are just tuned up in the studio to other musicians, not to a tuner, so sometimes the tuning can be pretty far from concert ). Listening ears on to the bass because the bass is a wicked way to hear the note of the chord. Not saying this is gonna work all the time, but more often than not it will. Of course you will still have to figure out if it is major or minor chord but the bass will give you the biggest clue.

Have you checked out transcribe? I know a bunch of people that use this and it's awesome. I bet the oldies wish it was available back in the day. You can slow the music down to anything as little as 15% of the original speed but it keeps the sound at the same pitch. It is freakin awesome for working out fast stuff, and also lets you hear it clear as.

MichaelMcKevin

Jam10 wrote:

I want to start playing music including solos by ear and not rely on tabs and youtube. What is the best way to learn how to transcribe? I know just by doing it all the time will help but are there any tricks or pointers anybody can give? Obviously starting with easy 3 chord songs is a good way to start but how did you guys/girls get good at transcribing and playing by ear?

Thanks

Try and get the melody before the chord or key if you're transcribing a lead part. Transcribing is simply trial and error.

ianvomsaal

- tab is not really a great tool for transcription (it may give you some ideas on where to start, but that's about the extent of it). notation is a far better tool. notice how many times you've learned a tune by ear, only to find the tab and parts are in a completely different place. tab basically narrows your point of view and options, whereas a given note (notation) can be played in many different places (meaning it opens up where you can play it, giving you choices). the best way to learn to transcribe is to work on your ear, which encompasses many things, and can include site reading.

- commence by playing a note on your guitar, and then try to find all the places on the fretboard where that same note sounds. now we're not talking about octaves (though they can also be beneficial), we're talking about the same exact note. the top three strings (e-a-d) only yield a couple places to play the same note without going into an octave, but get below those strings and the options open up quite a bit more.

- for instance, the open high-e-string: this same note can be played on the b-string 5th fret, g-string 9th, d-string 14th, a-string 19th, and low-e-string 24th fret (if you have one). this is the same note, same pitch, not the octave above. another example is c (b-string first fret), which can also be played on the g-string 5th, d-string 10th, a-string 15, and low-e-string 20th fret - it may feel like it continues 'at nauseam, but remember that there's only 12-total notes (and there's really only 4-groupings of these 12-notes on the fretboard).

- try to memorize where all your notes are located by pitch, and try to find them as often as you can (you have to work on it). if you do this, when you hear these pitches in a tune you'll be able to find those pitch much easier (and typically in several places), thus opening up where the notes/passage/musical phrases you hear can be played - this will make learning and combining musical phrases easier (people typically stick to regions on their guitar - they may move around to a few places, but they typically always come back to those same places).

- remember that there is no set place that you have to play something - if you get the same overall essence of the tune playing a grouping of notes or musical phrases in another place on the guitar, what does it matter.

cheers . . . Ian

ccpa

I've been playing by ear for 20 years now. I'd echo most of what has been said already. I think you need to be able to hear the following chords and play it on the guitar. A, C, D, E, G. The reason being is these chords are not playing the same notes on the scale like a barre chords F and B. They have a certain voicing to them that cannot be reproduced on the neck in a different key without a capo. Start with that. Then go back and listen to your favorite songs and start to learn chord progressions. (G C D). I think where to play something on the neck is vital because a note played on the D string vs G string may be the same note but slightly different tone.

Gilles27

Add my $.02--You can use transcriptions to "check your homework". If you're just starting out, there will be a long learning curve. But ultimately figuring something out for yourself will make it stick a lot longer. Something that really helps is knowing a little bit of theory, since understanding keys and phrasing will come in handy figuring out different runs and neck locations. I started out the way you're talking about--it's good for a while, but then you'll get to a point where you're good enough to know how bad you are:) Start slowly and build up. Repetition, and over time it will come. In the mean time, don't hesitate to refer to transcriptions as a road map whenever you're unsure about something. Good luck and have fun!

Jam10

Pj_Gurl wrote:

I think there is going to be some differing opinions on this, and that's cool, love hearing others opinions..

I look at it like this. There are some awesome players around that don’t have any clue how theory or scales go, but can work out stuff by ear real easy, but I have never met the opposite (someone who knows lots of theory and can play great but has shit ears). Having a great feel (and good ears) is the most valuable skill on guitar, any good musician will tell you that. Now, of course everyone has some lessons and we all have to learn scales and stuff, but developing your ear is what usually sets the good player apart.

Think of it like this ok. When you hear a sound,, it goes into your ear/head. You noodle around for ages until you work out how to make that sound come out of our guitar. So what if it takes you a little while, you'll get there and next time you hear that sound you will find it pretty quickly. After doing this quite a bit it gets to the point where you can work out most songs pretty easily. And it is not just about the notes, it about the way the note is played, how loud of soft, played aggressively or softly, behind the beat or right on. That is the stuff you can’t get from tabs or anywhere else except listening.

And it goes deeper still. So once you can find all these sounds quickly you can take away the external source (the songs) and try to find the sounds inside yourself. This is what people mean when they talk about people playing from the heart, or with feel or any number of expressions that really mean - you know the sounds you are making are coming from somewhere inside. From the head or heart don’t matter, so long as it comes from inside you.

Start out with the easy stuff (chord songs), write down the order of the chords and maybe if you wanna, the structure (like verses, chorus, bridge)..
Make sure you are in tune..(yeah, i know it's obvious, but think of how much of the older tunes we like to play around with are just tuned up in the studio to other musicians, not to a tuner, so sometimes the tuning can be pretty far from concert ). Listening ears on to the bass because the bass is a wicked way to hear the note of the chord. Not saying this is gonna work all the time, but more often than not it will. Of course you will still have to figure out if it is major or minor chord but the bass will give you the biggest clue.

Have you checked out transcribe? I know a bunch of people that use this and it's awesome. I bet the oldies wish it was available back in the day. You can slow the music down to anything as little as 15% of the original speed but it keeps the sound at the same pitch. It is freakin awesome for working out fast stuff, and also lets you hear it clear as.

Hi Pj Gurl, thanks for the advice. I just read this last night on a web site called Justin Guitar. It's a free guitar lesson web site. Did you get this from there? (: It's almost word for word as Justin's thoughts on transcribing!

Anon

I have tons of stuff saved! It's my thoughts too. Lots of good advice yes. Ians post is pretty much spot on too.

lucylespian

Here's my thoughts and experiences with transcribing. I have the most primitive skills myself.
I think that ACCURATE transcribing is VERY HARD to do.
Consider how many tabs on the internet are hopeless. Consider that professionally done, published transriptions still have an error rate. It's interesting that so many people really bag out tab books, but alternativr sources are so much worse.
Complicating things are the number of overdubs and multi-tracks oin recorded albums, which can vary from harmonised lines at various intervals, same lines played on a totally different tone, same notes played in a different position, drone notes, coiunterpoint lines, alternate tunings, post-performance tape speed change which can change pitch by things like 1/4 tone, untuned instruments ( EVH, Cobain and JAck White, raise your hands) etc etc (I'm quoting the performance notes from my Led Zep books here). This makes getting things right quite tricky.
I know a guy who played lead in cover bands in my hometown, who is highly respected, including by myself. He learnt everything by ear. I had a few lesosns with him and discovered that his "version" of several songs we looked at were definitely not as recorded. I lost a lot of respect right there. Some of his versions were total crap.
I've also seen any number of differing transriptions in magazines, done by professionals. YLB is a great example, transcribed by 2 different mags a couple of years ago at the same time, very differing results. How many can be correct ?
My point here, is that it's hard to do, and you should expect a long road to success.
Golden ears go a long way to success here, as does having a chance to watch stuff being played to get a hint on position and where to start. Youtube is great for this, where you can watch the hands on original clips as well as guys doing the "how to" thing.
Me, I'm not bothered too much. I worked out a few songs during my brief cover band stint, when I could not find a tab, and used a crap outline tab to crack a few too, but personally, I did NOT find that it made me a better player. Practicing songs accurately,playing them "as written" and getting them to performance standard made me a better player.
Composition (since you have written one song, I'm guessing you want to write more) is a totally different disclipline to performance, and transcribing is another discipline separate from both.
A course in composition is more likely to make you a better transcriber, than the reverse.

Here's a joke.................


Which college course is more boring ??

Music History or Music Theory ??

















Neither, it's The History of Music Theory, no wait, it's The Theory of Music History.

Pappas

the lads from giventowail.com have done a sensational job transcribing all the PJ songs, some of them would have been HEAPS hard to get right eg ledbedder.