Cost of Strat vs. LP

Jam10

Why is a Standard American Strat about $1000 and a Standard Les Paul about $3000? Is the Standard LP 3 times the value of a Standard Strat? Is it worth that much more?

keeponrockin

Jam10 wrote:

Why is a Standard American Strat about $1000 and a Standard Les Paul about $3000? Is the Standard LP 3 times the value of a Standard Strat? Is it worth that much more?

Les Pauls are MUCH more expensive guitars to produce. It doesn't mean they're better, but all the cosmetics, and just how they're constructed, is more expensive. The binding alone adds about $1000 to the price tag. The set neck, the carved top, etc.. all have a lot to do with it as well.

exhausted

gibson's also trying to squeeze every last drop out of it's name prestige as well.

Pauk

exhausted wrote:

gibson's also trying to squeeze every last drop out of it's name prestige as well.

Especially in their "Special Edition" models which usually include great excuses for cutting corners on production while charging more.

mccreadyisgod

If it was just straight-up construction costs, then why are Epi masterbuilt a quarter of the price? Same build quality... maybe it's that "Gibson" logo that costs so much to install. Hmm....

Really, they are more expensive to build than a Fender. The set neck is an intense piece of work, as is the carved maple cap on a mahogany body. The body and neck binding, as was mentioned already. You could argue that the hardware and pickups cost more than Fender equivalents to produce, although that's minimal.

ianvomsaal

Yeah it comes down to construction, woods, parts, and especially labor costs - It's basically the higher
American labor costs (what they pay their workers) VS lower Foreign - literally pennies on the dollar.
This is why the Fender Custom Shop stuff is so expensive - American workers are making C/S guitars.
A lot of the American Standard pieces are made elsewhere, but assembled in Corona - which makes
them less expensive than the Custom Shop models but more expensive than the imported models.
Also, with non transparent finishes, Fender can use much crappier wood because it will never be seen.
Same with the solid color Gibsons, although mahogany is quite a bit more expensive than ash or alder.

kitfoo

Just buy the top-of-the-line Epiphone and throw some Gibson pickups in it. You'll save about $1000.

All Those Yesterdays

exhausted wrote:

gibson's also trying to squeeze every last drop out of it's name prestige as well.

Totally agree!

Go buy a Hamer instead of a Gibson!

xtremehardy388

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

Totally agree!

Go buy a Hamer instead of a Gibson!

Man, I have been dying to play a hamer but I can never find them around here (Kalamazoo, Mi.)

westsidepie

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

Totally agree!

Go buy a Hamer instead of a Gibson!

Agree as well. If you want the old Gibson quality for less, by a Heritage. They are a company made up of former Gibson employees. Look at the H-150CM. Here is some info from their web site:

Heritage Guitar Inc. of 225 Parsons Street in Kalamazoo, Michigan was incorporated on April 1, 1985. The company is going on 19 years old, it has achieved the status of one of the premier guitar companies in the world today. It is, in many instances, the new guitar line handled by countless vintage shops throughout the world. This indicates it is thought of as the collectible guitar of tomorrow.
The idea to start Heritage Guitar began when the Gibson Guitar Corporation closed its Kalamazoo, Michigan factory in September of 1984 and moved all production to its other plant in Nashville, Tennessee (in operation since 1975). When this took place, some of the employees were asked to move to Nashville. However, since their families had spent many years in Kalamazoo, it made it difficult to uproot and move. Therefore 3 men, Jim Deurloo, Marvin Lamb, and JP Moats, decided to start a guitar manufacturing business. In 1985 when the company was incorporated, 2 other former Gibson Guitar Corporation employees, Bill Paige and Mike Korpak, joined as owners. Mike left the company in 1985.

http://www.heritageguitar.com/

MLC2006

Jam10 wrote:

Why is a Standard American Strat about $1000 and a Standard Les Paul about $3000? Is the Standard LP 3 times the value of a Standard Strat? Is it worth that much more?

actually, a LP Standard is $2300, not $3000. that's a $1300 difference, not 3 times the cost. is the Gibson $1300 better than the Fender? imo, yes. but I say that they're both overpriced. just because the Fender is much cheaper doesn't mean it's all that great of a value either. imo, an Epiphone Elitist at about the same price of a Fender is a much better value than the Fender.

All Those Yesterdays

xtremehardy388 wrote:

Man, I have been dying to play a hamer but I can never find them around here (Kalamazoo, Mi.)

Too bad, Peeler Music in Toledo ( know it isn't close to you) just closed there doors. But they were a Hamer dealer. Never paid any attention to them ever until my buddy picked up two during the going out of business deal. They just play like a million bucks. Great fat necks, amazing piece.

ianvomsaal

Epiphone lists themselves as "a part of the Gibson family of brands", Meaning though they
may be similar, they are not Gibson (just owned by Gibson). It'd be like saying a Squier Strat
is the same as Custom Shop Strat (not really close, even if you install much better hardware
and much better pickups, it's still a completely different guitar). Just like Heritage may be made
up of former Gibson employees, and may have a similar looking guitar, it's not a Gibson), though
I won't disagree that Heritage typically makes a superior product, it's still not a Gibson.

There are a ton of other makes out there that can compete with the Gibson Les Paul.
I REALLY like the Washburn WI580, http://www.washburn.com/products/electrics/idol/wi580.aspx
These guitars seriously play better than about 90% of any Gibson Les Paul you'll find out there.
And they sell for $1,999 ($500 below a Les Paul Standard) - This guitar seriously competes with
the best Gibson Les Paul (Mahogany body, Carved flamed maple top, single cutaway Single-ply
creme binding, Tone Pros stop tail with tune-o-matic bridge, 2-piece select mahogany set neck,
Rosewood fingerboard, Half block inlays (MOP), 22 Jumbo frets, 24.75" scale, Seymour Duncan®
Custom Custom bridge pickup & Seymour Duncan® '59 neck pickup, Exclusive Grover® 18:1 gear
ratio tuners, 8.5 lbs, Buzz Feiten Tuning System™, and it's built in the USA Custom Shop.
The Washburn WI440 is another great competitor (completely blowing away the LP Studio), yet
selling for only $1,299 http://www.washburn.com/products/electrics/idol/wi440.aspx

- Ian

Pacomc79

wood, construction, labor and paint among other things like the extra money for the name on the headstock or collectablilty.

I've seen a few studies. Pretty much extrapolated for inflation the Gibson Les Paul Standards and the Fender American Standards are the same prices they were in the beginning.

Obviously they have newer machines to help some labor costs, but yes the set neck is more labor intensive as is the wood and the process of putting it all toegther. Nice looking maple tops cost more not to mention the process of painting and buffing much of which is done by skilled laborers is expensive. This is one reason the companies both make matte finished guitars.. (highway one; faded) because they don't get the buffing that makes them look shiny.

Naturally both gibson and fender make thier share of crap... most large companies do it's just what happens when you don't spend the money to QC every part of the process like a 1 man custom shop that makes 10 guitars a year might. But generally given the differences the Gibson stuff should cost around twice as much and the custom stuff with intricate inlay or binding is more still.

The standard models are generally pretty close to what they were when you increase the price comprable to inflation. The difference of course is that the companies have had 50 years of learning how to build a nice guitar cheaper. In the beginning everything was built by hand.


The great thing is, as Ian noted above. Other companies are taking note of the extensive aftermarket parts arena and custom shop guitars and offering consumers the parts they want to install anyway on factory models for cheaper than Fender and Gibson because the old guard can sell on name alone and believe it or not quality of parts is not really #1 on thier equation because it dosen't have to be.

You can save a lot shopping for quality it just takes a bit longer.

EvilTB

Pacomc79 wrote:

I've seen a few studies. Pretty much extrapolated for inflation the Gibson Les Paul Standards and the Fender American Standards are the same prices they were in the beginning.

Interesting, I did some crude research and came up with a slightly different answer.

In 1954 a Strat with trem had a suggested retail price $249.50. Adjusted for inflation is about $1925.00 in 2007 according to http://www.measuringworth.com. The 2008 model according to Musician's Friend retails from $1400.00 to $1500.00.

It looks to me like the price of a Standard Strat went down by about $500 between 1954 and 2008. However, the vintage reissues seem to be the exact same price if not slightly more expensive then they were back in the 1950's. The '57 Reissue Stratocaster has an MSRP from $2000 to $2150.

ianvomsaal

Yup . . .
-Current List Price on an American Standard is between $1,399.99 - $1,499.99, and sells between $999.99 - $1,099.99.
- I'd hope to pay less considering these guitars don't have ALL American made/assembled parts as they did back in the mid 50's.
- Now as you saw, if you get a Custom Shop (mid 50's equivalent) you'll actually pay a bit more - so inflation is fairly accurate.