Beyerdynamic headphone recommendation

Trailer

I'm looking for a good pair of headphones that I can do a little mixing (A/B-ing) on when I'm not around or using my monitors. I've looked at all the sennheisers, akg, audio-technica, grado, etc... but from what I've read, I believe the beyerdynamics are the best choice for this situation. Please correct me if I'm wrong, for I don't have much headphone experience.

I've narrowed it down to either the 880, 880 pro, or 990 pro. Anybody have any advice, or used any of these?

edit: I'm also not looking to break the bank here... looking in the $200-$300 range.

mccreadyisgod

I'd be hard-pressed to recommend any headphones better than the Sony MDR's. Specifically, the 7506 and 7509 models are used world-wide in studio applications. They're well within your range, too... 7506's sell for $99 US, and the 7509's are $199 US.

kitfoo

mccreadyisgod wrote:

I'd be hard-pressed to recommend any headphones better than the Sony MDR's

Agreed. I have gone through 2 pairs of V600's over the past 15yrs, and they rock! The first pair actually lasted up til this year, when I blew out the cones playing my guitar a little too loud with the headphones hooked up to the amp. They lasted through studio recordings, years of travel, deployments, and even a downpour!

Trailer

mccreadyisgod wrote:

I'd be hard-pressed to recommend any headphones better than the Sony MDR's. Specifically, the 7506 and 7509 models are used world-wide in studio applications. They're well within your range, too... 7506's sell for $99 US, and the 7509's are $199 US.

Cool.. I was looking at the 7509's. It's now between them and the dt990 pro.

I've always used Sony headphones, and I know they always put out a good product... but I just keep reading that the 990 pro was specifically designed for mixing. ahhhh... decisions:D

samquigley

You'd be wasting your money on the dt990pros if you don't have a good, dedicated, headphone amp. They require a lot of power to make them run properly, the kind of power that doesn't come standard behind any inbuilt headphone output in any kit you might have. I suggest you might be better off with the 80ohm version of the dt250s. They're not as overly bassy as the 990s, either.

Trailer

biffhardon wrote:

You'd be wasting your money on the dt990pros if you don't have a good, dedicated, headphone amp. They require a lot of power to make them run properly, the kind of power that doesn't come standard behind any inbuilt headphone output in any kit you might have. I suggest you might be better off with the 80ohm version of the dt250s. They're not as overly bassy as the 990s, either.

Yeah I was figuring I would have to get a good headphone amp to go with the 990. The dt250s look nice though.. pretty flat frequency. Would you recommend them over the 7509? Or 990s... if I got an amp?

ianvomsaal

keeping the price lower, take a look at these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K271mk2/
I've used these AKG myself: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K601/

Trailer

ianvomsaal wrote:

keeping the price lower, take a look at these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K271mk2/
I've used these AKG myself: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K601/

hey so if I got one of these, or the dt990s.. and was just using it when I'm using my laptop and 002 rack.. would I need a headphone amplifier? does the 002 have a headphone amplifier built into it? if not, what's a good amplifier for a reasonable budget?

mccreadyisgod

Trailer wrote:

hey so if I got one of these, or the dt990s.. and was just using it when I'm using my laptop and 002 rack.. would I need a headphone amplifier? does the 002 have a headphone amplifier built into it? if not, what's a good amplifier for a reasonable budget?

The Digi 002 has a pretty good headphone output on it... I'm sure it would be fine for most headphones. You can probably get better specs on the DigiDesign website, and match them to the input specs for each of the headphones. Big thing to note is input impedance (ohms) and wattage.

As for a budget headphone amp, Behringer. I'm not a huge fan of the brand, but their headphone amp is pretty good, and very cheap:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-HA4700-Powerplay-Pro-Headphone-Amp?sku=240107

I'd stay away from their smaller headphone amps, I don't trust them (too much stuff in a little box). I used to have a PreSonus headphone amp, which sounded GREAT... until it broke. Fortuntely, it was still under warrantee, so they fixed it, but it worked for another two months before breaking again, this time past the warrantee. So I got the Behringer, and I've been happy with it so far.

ianvomsaal

Trailer wrote:

hey so if I got one of these, or the dt990s.. and was just using it when I'm using my laptop and 002 rack.. would I need a headphone amplifier? does the 002 have a headphone amplifier built into it? if not, what's a good amplifier for a reasonable budget?

You should be fine plugging directly into the Digi 002 - The Digi 002's headphone output is
+15 dBu with a 150 ohm load - The 002 headphone outputs are able to produce very loud
output levels - Remember that the best results are with high-quality closed-ear headphones.

mccreadyisgod

ianvomsaal wrote:

Remember that the best results are with high-quality closed-ear headphones.

I take issue with that...

There are three types of headphone shapes: in-ear (like iPod earbuds, in-ear-monitors, etc), super-aural (on top of the ear, but not sealed around the ear... like the old Walkman headphones), and circum-aural (all the way around the ear, sealing the ear within the headphone cup). I believe what Ian is suggesting is circum-aural, which will give the best results.

However, in circum-aural headphones, there are two types: open-back and closed-back. Closed-back headphones are ideal in a loud environment where you need to isolate from what's going on around you, like at a rock concert to isolate an element within a mix, for a DJ to beat-match or preview their next track, or in just plain loud listening environments like public spaces, airplanes, etc. Open-back headphones, however, are ideal when you're in a fairly quiet space. They have the advantage of being able to "breath" a little, closer to what speakers sound like a few feet away. Close-back headphones are too present, with nowhere for sound to go but down your ear canal. It's hard to explain, but if you mixed on close-back headphones and then played it over speakers, it would not sound right.

So, I would generally amend what Ian said by saying, "Remember that the best results are with high-quality circum-aural, open-back headphones."

ianvomsaal

Hey, don't take my word for it - I was actually quoting right out of the Digidesign 002 Rack Manual
(Page 58, you can read it for yourself): http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/docs/Getting_Started_002_26685.pdf

1 Connect headphones to the Headphone jack
on the Digi 002 or the Digi 002 Rack. The Head-
phone input accepts a stereo 1/4-inch plug. If
your headphones have a smaller mini-plug, you
can purchase an adapter from your local dealer.
For best results, use high-quality, closed-ear
headphones.

2 Adjust headphone volume with the Head-
phone Level knob . . . . . . .

IDgotI

As you already know mixing is a very complicated subject. Every model of speakers and headphones sound different from one another, which makes trying to come up a mix that will sound sweet on absolutely *all* of them incredibly difficult. The best way to mix is to have access to a few pairs of speakers and only toss in a pair of headphones as an extra option. Mixing on headphones is something I would personally recommend against. You will probably get a lot of different responses on that topic here, and I'm sure some folks will tell you it's fine... but it gets very difficult trying to make sure the bass frequencies in your mix are set up well without hearing how the mix works in a room with speakers moving a lot of air. Remember, headphones don't have to work as hard to sound good, they don't need to move as much air, and with the headphones on your head, you might be willing to go with more or less extreme panning choices than you would be comfortable with listening to speakers in a room. That said, I personally think you are dead on to be looking at the Beyer headphones if you absolutely have to mix on headphones. There is no question that the AKG 240s and MDR V6s and or V9s (aka 7506 and 7509) are the far more widely used standard in studios, but this is *not* because they are the *best* sounding headphones out there. In fact, keeping in mind what I wrote above about the value of averaging your mix out across more than one pair of speakers, a lot of the gear that gets used in professional studios is often there because it doesn't sound the best. Yamaha NS10 monitors are the best example of this. A lot of studios and engineers use these not because they sound amazing, but because they are a good example of average crappy speakers, that just happen to be built with absolute precision. As a result each pair of NS10s, while not sounding great, will sound exactly like any other pair of NS10s. This means that if you start work on a mix using a pair of NS10s in Cleveland, and then continue work on your mix on another pair in Boston, the speakers will sound almost identical. NS10s get used in conjunction with the flagship monitors being used in a given studio by companies like Genelec or Dynaudio. They never get used by themselves, but as point of comparison against much higher end monitors costing thousands more. Now the AKG and Sony headphones are different from NS10s in that they DO sound good... they sound really good. But again the main reason they are used so widely in studios is because they are good value for the money, they are widely distributed and can be easily replaced in a pinch, and they are mass produced with air tight quality control. A professional engineer knows that a pair of these headphones purchased in Detroit will sound the same as a pair bought in Sydney. This makes them great work horses. But if you are really looking to mix, and if you are going to just spring for one pair of headphones, the Beyerdynamic 770s or above would be my personal choice. Also take a look at the Senheiser HD 600or 650.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=RetrieveSku&IC=SEHD600&Q=&O=

Those would be my first choice if I *had* to mix on headphones... though they have open backs which makes them a bad choice as monitors for recording sessions (sound will spill out from the headphones into the mic). Still, it's the open backs that make them more "speaker like" and so a better choice for mixing.

ianvomsaal

IDgotI wrote:

Mixing on headphones is something I would personally recommend against. You will probably get a lot of different responses on that topic here, and I'm sure some folks will tell you it's fine... but it gets very difficult trying to make sure the bass frequencies in your mix are set up well without hearing how the mix works in a room with speakers moving a lot of air. Remember, headphones don't have to work as hard to sound good, they don't need to move as much air, and with the headphones on your head, you might be willing to go with more or less extreme panning choices than you would be comfortable with listening to speakers in a room. . . .

I agree completely about mixing with monitors instead of headphones, and the reasoning behind it (+1 yup).
This is also why I recommended the AKG's - studio standards - & they make semi-open, open, & closed back.
This is also why I gave examples of two different AKG models (completely depending on your needs).