first guitar, what to buy?

tara

hey, i've wanted to learn how to play guitar for as long as i can remember, so i thought i'd finally give it a shot. but i know nothing about guitars, and i was wondering what kind of guitar i should get, acoustic, electric? and are there diff types of each that i should know about? also, i'm a student, which means, i have a small bit of money, but it's all been borrowed from various places, so i'm hoping to do this cheaply
anyone live in toronto and can suggest a good place to start looking?

MichaelMcKevin

If you want an acoustic, I'd go for a low end Takamine or this Ibanez( http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ibanez-AW20-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=519611 ) . The Ibanez sounds, feels, and looks really good for a guitar so inexpensive. Electric, I'd go with a Squire strat. I think they're a lot better than the epi LP junior/specials you can get for around the same price. I recommend trying anything out before you buy it.

keeponrockin

Steves music (its on king or queen) is a great store! What's your budget?

sennin

Art & Luthrie acoustic......a great budget Canadian guitar.

tara

keeponrockin wrote:

Steves music (its on king or queen) is a great store! What's your budget?

not too sure about budget, since i havn't done any investigating, definetly less than 500$, and preferably more like $300, but i'm not sure what's available at that price (i've started my search by asking here, so that when i do go to steve's or long and mcquade i won't sound like a total idiot)

who's_pearljam?

If you'd like to just sit and play some music and learn guitar, I would definitely go with acoustic first.
With an acoustic, you can just pick it up and play, and not have to plug it in to the amp. You can pick somebodies acoustic up at a party and play, and not have to use the excuse, oh duuuude, I don't have an amp.

I would bet that MOST great electric songs were written on acoustic guitar, then brought to the stage or recorded electric after that. You REALLY learn the dynamics of hitting the right note and getting a good tone out of it, whereas on electric, your mistakes are covered up with the fuzz and effects if you're playing like that.


I would go to a good music store and sit down with some guitars and play them, even if you don't know how to play. You'll get the feel of the neck and the body, and how they fit you. If you're in a good store, find a salesperson who will fit you to one you. That should be what they're there for, to help you. Your first guitar is your most important one, too. If it feels good, you'll enjoy playing MUCH more than buying a really crappy one that doesn't play well.


I think we made Sennin buy that Art & Luthrie acoustic and look at him now!
A rock star already! :cool:

That is a great guitar, but make sure the neck is right for your hands. If you've got long fingers and big hands, a bigger neck will feel better, but if you've got smaller hands, then it's REALLY important to find a slimmer neck that fits.
In that $300 - $500 price range, you've got a lot of options, so try a lot out and have some fun!

keeponrockin

I love my A&L!

benjs

Honestly, for a first guitar, definitely go with an acoustic. I would also say make sure it's a steel-string... It'll start out hard, but you'll develop callaces and strength in your fingers. I'd also recommend anything from the Godin family, you'll love it (Art and Lutherie, Seagull, etc.). My favourite place is Ring Music on Spadina and Harbord, great little place with staff who have tons of knowledge to share. Also, make sure to get prices from other places, if you know another place in Toronto is beating their price (try Long & McQuade or 12th Fret), and tell these people, they're always more than happy to beat that price. Hope that helped, good luck

tara

who's_pearljam? wrote:

, your mistakes are covered up with the fuzz and effects

I would go to a good music store and sit down with some guitars and play them, even if you don't know how to play. You'll get the feel of the neck and the body, and how they fit you. If you're in a good store, find a salesperson who will fit you to one you. That should be what they're there for, to help you. Your first guitar is your most important one, too. If it feels good, you'll enjoy playing MUCH more than buying a really crappy one that doesn't play well.

thanks, that's great advice. i'm always intimidated going in to buy something where a lot of technical knowledge is required (i'm a cyclist, and if i do say so, a pretty damn good one, and i walked into a store the other day to buy a new chain, the guy took a look at my ride (it was my 'i don't mind locking it up in the city' bike), and said that he wouldn't sell me a chain, that if the chain was worn out, other parts would be too and i'd be back soon to fix that, so why don't i just let him do my mechanical work for me, needless to say, i don't go to that store anymore, i was just worried for a repeat at a music store where i actually don't know what i'mt alking about)
so my holiday gift to myself i guess will be an acoustic guitar, i'm excited!

tara

benjs wrote:

make sure it's a steel-string...

as vs? i thought that the lower 3 strings were always steel, and the upper 3 nylon

who's_pearljam?

tara wrote:

thanks, that's great advice. i'm always intimidated going in to buy something where a lot of technical knowledge is required (i'm a cyclist, and if i do say so, a pretty damn good one, and i walked into a store the other day to buy a new chain, the guy took a look at my ride (it was my 'i don't mind locking it up in the city' bike), and said that he wouldn't sell me a chain, that if the chain was worn out, other parts would be too and i'd be back soon to fix that, so why don't i just let him do my mechanical work for me, needless to say, i don't go to that store anymore, i was just worried for a repeat at a music store where i actually don't know what i'mt alking about)
so my holiday gift to myself i guess will be an acoustic guitar, i'm excited!

Nice!!

The same holds true with a music store as the dude with your bike. If you don't feel comfortable with the salesperson, don't let them intimidate you into buying anything.
If you go to a smaller store that doesn't have all the corporate pressures to sell sell sell whateverr the deal of the month is,,, you'll probably pay a bit more. I think that can be worth it, because you'll walk out with something suited to you, and come back and maybe they'll help you restring or set it up.
It's a relationship that'll be formed all the way up to when you and your band walk in to the same store and you need 3 tour busses, a couple of tractor trailers to hold the sound systems he'll be selling you and myriads of amps and guitars for the tour!
That's NEXT year, though!!

tara

who's_pearljam? wrote:

It's a relationship that'll be formed all the way up to when you and your band walk in to the same store and you need 3 tour busses, a couple of tractor trailers to hold the sound systems he'll be selling you and myriads of amps and guitars for the tour!
That's NEXT year, though!!

lol you totally saw through me, this is just an elaborate scheme to formulate a backup plan of becoming a rock star so that i can drop out of school with no guilt, will you tell my mom for me

who's_pearljam?

tara wrote:

lol you totally saw through me, this is just an elaborate scheme to formulate a backup plan of becoming a rock star so that i can drop out of school with no guilt, will you tell my mom for me

You'll have convoys of busses and trucks showing up and setting up the stadium,,,,,,
then here comes Tara just before the show, riding up on your bike!

benjs

tara wrote:

as vs? i thought that the lower 3 strings were always steel, and the upper 3 nylon

That's the way a classical guitar works. On a steel-string guitar, all strings are steel, and the lower three strings are wound with steel as well. The difference is that a classical is easier on your fingers. Odds are, if you start with a classical and continue playing guitar, you will most likely move from it to a steel-string, so it's more worth your while to develop your finger strength and start off with a steel-string.

benjs

As well, like someone previously stated - it's a relationship thing. Smaller stores will start out with a higher price, but especially Ring, CAN be persuaded to go for a lower price. I bought a Fender Highway One Telecaster from them, and they beat Steve's price for me by almost $100, just because I mentioned their price.

tara

benjs wrote:

That's the way a classical guitar works. On a steel-string guitar, all strings are steel, and the lower three strings are wound with steel as well. The difference is that a classical is easier on your fingers. Odds are, if you start with a classical and continue playing guitar, you will most likely move from it to a steel-string, so it's more worth your while to develop your finger strength and start off with a steel-string.

actually the first time i picked up a guitar (many many years ago), i was quite suprised that the upper 3 weren't steel, i used to play cello, and had assumed that all string instruments were strung with steel, so this could be cool, thanks, i'll try that place at harbord and spadina

Pacomc79

a lot of sales people are jerks, and a lot of them are decent, same as with cycling or any other hobby really. If they don't qualify you first (ie what do you know what do you want etc....how they can be of assistance chances are they pretty much suck.)

I'd go with acoustic first, I started basically on Electric, but acoustic is probably the best to learn on becuase you'll strenthen you fingers faster and it requires less parts.

What you want in a entry level acoustic... Ok you won't get all solid wood, but you would like a solid top. Spruce is the most common. Then you want excellent tuning stability. Grover Machine heads (they say grover on them) (they live on the head stock they are the 6 shiney silver things) are some of the best you'll find on entry level guitars.

The most important thing in entry level is staying in tune to train your ear. Second feel, it should feel good but this takes a bit of time, like a baseball glove or a new bicycle, If the strings are way off the fretboard it won't feel very good to play. It should also appeal to you looks wise, it's going to sit in your house and be furniture, it should be pretty to you too.

Fender, Taylor, Ibanez, Epiphone, Art and Lutherie, larrivee, Takamine, Ovation, Mitchell etc etc. all make decent to great entry level guitars.

Many are manufactured in the same factories in china or korea. Korea (Sammick) are better quality than most Chinese guitars in my own humble opinion.

look for a solid top, and good tuning machines, if it looks flimsey it probably is, shop around a bit, play a bunch, and take your time making up your mind. Find a nice comfy strap and a good tuner too and a chord chart.

tara

Pacomc79 wrote:

What you want in a entry level acoustic... Ok you won't get all solid wood, but you would like a solid top. Spruce is the most common. Then you want excellent tuning stability. Grover Machine heads (they say grover on them) (they live on the head stock they are the 6 shiney silver things) are some of the best you'll find on entry level guitars.

look for a solid top, and good tuning machines, if it looks flimsey it probably is, shop around a bit, play a bunch, and take your time making up your mind. Find a nice comfy strap and a good tuner too and a chord chart.

thanks, i'm getting a nice little tutorial here. it seems like acoustic is the way to go, which is probably better, since i live in a thin-walled apartment

i like the your quote at the bottom, i feel that way about my bikes, my parents say 'why do you need another bike? you have two, when i was your age.... why don't you buy some clothes instead, you have nothing to wear', me 'i'm not going naked, and bikes are way more fun than pants'

lucylespian

Lots of good advice here. Acoustics are really portable, and it's nice to sit in a park or a the beach and play. I still have my first guitar, an Ibanez aciustic, needed some refurb a coula years ago after 27 yrs, but still wonderful to play.
Can't stress enough how important it is to get a good electronic tuner, and use it every time you play. Unless you are blessed with perfect pitch, that is.
Playing perfectly in tune willl sound good and encourage you no end. It is the best way to build your pitch sense. Playing even a littel out of tune will sound poor adn discourage you .
Consider getting a cut-away acoustic, as it gives you a few more frets to play with wihcih broadens the range of music you can play considerably.

tara

benjs wrote:

Honestly, for a first guitar, definitely go with an acoustic. I would also say make sure it's a steel-string... It'll start out hard, but you'll develop callaces and strength in your fingers. I'd also recommend anything from the Godin family, you'll love it (Art and Lutherie, Seagull, etc.). My favourite place is Ring Music on Spadina and Harbord, great little place with staff who have tons of knowledge to share. Also, make sure to get prices from other places, if you know another place in Toronto is beating their price (try Long & McQuade or 12th Fret), and tell these people, they're always more than happy to beat that price. Hope that helped, good luck

so i finally actually went guitar shopping, things got busy fast since i posted this thread, anyway, i went to ring music like you suggested, then to steve's then long and mcquade, and before i get into the guitars, i wanted to say how amazing the sales staff were, the guy at long and mcquade actually played for me so that i could hear the difference between two guitars (after i said that i couldn't play, and he felt that it was important for me to hear them), steve's was wierd, lots of guys looking like various rockstar stereotypes. i was also suprised at how few girls there were at any of these places, i didn't realize that music was such male dominated affair.
oh, and i've found kenny g, he works at long and mcquade in the electronics section.

ok, now about the guitars, all steel string, all solid tops...
ring music: small selection in my price range, found an A&L cedar for $256
at steve's: A&L in spruce for $274, a Yamaha FG for $260, and some fender for $180, generally steve's prices seemed to be inflated by about $20
on to Long and McQuade, another Yamaha spruce, for $250-$270, an A&L cedar for $250-295, and a Simon and Patrik cedar folk for $299
i guess that it's between the yamaha and the a&l, the yamaha sounded stronger on the lower strings, i guess i'd call it a deeper sound, since the price is exactly the same, i wanted to ask you kids what you thought, after thinking about it, i think that i may be leaning towards the yamaha, i like the deepness (i'm a former cello player), but the a&l sort of looked cooler (i know, i know), and then there's the non-gloss vs gloss coating, what's that all about?

lucylespian

OK, you are now at the point where you have to choose the one YOU like, we can't tell you that. The one that feels, sounds and looks nicest to you is the best. Thre is nothing wrong with choosing a guitar cos you like the look, it's a big part of them after all.
There are two big reasons why guitar is such a male affair.
Firstly, you have to cut teh fingernails on your left hand SHORT and keep them that way, and few girls will do that.
SEcond, my theory is that all guitars are female, and guys like to stroke girls whereas a lot of ladies aren''t as into that (until the last couple of years, where every second girl seems to have a bi phase). I think this theory is backed by the fact that most good female guitarits have been lesbians in the past (again, changing).
I have always found specialist shops of all types to populated by dudes in the know who put off newcomers with their cliquy attitudes. I have walked out of shops any number of times with the cash I was going to spend still on me after being ignored or patronised.

tara

lucylespian wrote:

Firstly, you have to cut teh fingernails on your left hand SHORT and keep them that way, and few girls will do that.
SEcond, my theory is that all guitars are female, and guys like to stroke girls whereas a lot of ladies aren''t as into that (until the last couple of years, where every second girl seems to have a bi phase). I think this theory is backed by the fact that most good female guitarits have been lesbians in the past (again, changing).
I have always found specialist shops of all types to populated by dudes in the know who put off newcomers with their cliquy attitudes. I have walked out of shops any number of times with the cash I was going to spend still on me after being ignored or patronised.

isn't it wierd, that girls will sacrifice doing something wonderful for looks? the nails are already short, i chew them if they aren't.
i think i'd add two more points, first, every guy wants to be a rockstar, few want to be musicians, as was made aware to me by how done up everyone at the stores were, there was bearded sensitive guy, eye liner emo guy, etc etc and i also think that you touched on something in that second point, that most rock musicians are male, there aren't female role models, women don't see themselves in a band, they seem themselves dating band members. sad. well this girl's gonna rock!
back to thinking about the guitars...i have a few weeks, 'cause a girl bought the yamaha while i was there, so i'd have to wait a few weeks anyway

sennin

Go with what feels and sounds right.

Go back to the shops and just sit with the guitars. Hold them. Make sure the curve of the neck fits nicely in your fretting hand, and the the body feels good against yours and your leg.

...and if it sounds right to you....and is in your price range....snatch it up!

GL!

tara

sennin wrote:

Hold them. Make sure the curve of the neck fits nicely in your fretting hand, and the the body feels good against yours and your leg.

does that sound moderately sensual to anyone else?
i think i need a minute now

StupidHumanBeings

sennin wrote:

Go with what feels and sounds right.

Go back to the shops and just sit with the guitars. Hold them. Make sure the curve of the neck fits nicely in your fretting hand, and the the body feels good against yours and your leg.

...and if it sounds right to you....and is in your price range....snatch it up!

GL!

It puts the lotion on the telecaster!

enharmonic

Tara, get theee to a music store and get as many different kinds of guitars into your hands as possible. Right now for you, it's about feel. The most important thing to do is get an instruement that feels good in your hands. Regardless of whether it's and electric or an acoustic, if it doesn't feel right, you won't play it.

It is easier to transition to electric from acoustic, than it is to transition to acoustic from electric.

With an acoustic, you don't have to buy an amp

You can play an acoustic guring power outages

If you don't have a place to play loud muci, an acoustic is the best way to go.

Nothing beats the rush of playing power-chord rock and roll on an electric through a cranked amp.

Thats 4-1 in favor of an acoustic IMO

lucylespian

tara wrote:

does that sound moderately sensual to anyone else?
i think i need a minute now

Now you are getting what I mean about guitars being female. They are sensuous and curvy and you need to stroke a caress them for them to really sing and make music.
To enharmonics stuff I would add, that acoustics are much more sensitive to yuor playing and get you to work with teh instrument more than an electric which will forgive poor playing and make noise anyway.
Fingerpicking is just delicious !!!!!

sennin

tara wrote:

does that sound moderately sensual to anyone else?
i think i need a minute now

Treat your guitars right....and they will you.

tara

alright, so now that you've left me to make up my own mind (i'm fairly indecisive, can you tell?), i'm thinking of the yamaha, although the a&l looks cooler, i like how tha yamaha is stronger in the lower register.
last question, soft or hard case? is one more convinient/better?

Novawind

Soft case is lighter and will provide adequate protection if you just have it around your house/apartment and don't take it many places.

If you're like me and tote your guitars to friend's houses and back home a lot, you might want a hard case. Less likely something will happen to your guitar that way. Hard cases in general though are a little more expensive. I have a hard case for my Strat and a soft case for my acoustic, and I'm generally OK.