Vox Or Marshall?

Kegzy05

Hey guys. Thinking of getting a new setup. Not sure whether i want to get just a amp combo or a head and cabinet package but I wanted to know your thoughts on what brand? I have a Laney amp now and I chose it over a marshall because i can get an awesome clean tone out of it that the marshall kind of lacks and if I wanna get some crunch then I can just run my effects pedals through it. Would a vox amp still run well with distortion put through it? my understanding is that they are prodominately a blues amp?? If so then I guess i would stick to the marshall as i play mostly rock. thanks

ianvomsaal

A used Fender Super Reverb is probably one of the best clean tube amps you'll find in that price range (and my
personal favorite as far as really good clean tube/valve driven amps go).
If you're just running pedals, getting a really good clean amp is the way to go.
However, if you want a mixture of amp overdrive and pedals, the Marshall is a fairly good choice.
The JVM Marshall Head (JVM 410H) that's out now is nice - can't beat having 4-channels to choose from, but the
price will probably kill you unless you can find a used one somewhere.
Cheers . . .

- Ian C.T. vom Saal

Kegzy05

Cheers Ian. yeah I guess the other thing i forgot to mention (and probably the most important factor), price! lol. Im probably looking to spend no more than $2000. Yeah so if i'm just going to run pedals then i should be right to get a nice clean amp? Is there any point in getting a marshall that has good overdrive and gain when you can just simulate that with pedals anyway? Bit of a tradeoff i guess. its so hard to decide!

keeponrockin

I like using amp od and pedals. Traynor makes AMAZING amps for the prics, although I don't know what they'll run in AUS.

ianvomsaal

Kegzy05 wrote:

Cheers Ian. yeah I guess the other thing i forgot to mention (and probably the most important factor), price! lol. Im probably looking to spend no more than $2000. Yeah so if i'm just going to run pedals then i should be right to get a nice clean amp? Is there any point in getting a marshall that has good overdrive and gain when you can just simulate that with pedals anyway? Bit of a tradeoff i guess. its so hard to decide!

Really depends what you're looking for - If getting a Marshall, I'd suggest getting one with both "channel volume" and "mater volume."
It would suck getting a Marshall that you couldn't turn up to drive the channel (if that's what you want - unless you had an attenuator at your disposal).
McCready ran both a Marshall and a few pedals on TEN, but since then has really changed his set-up, running multiple amps for different clean and dirty
sounds (along with a few pedals). I'd suggest trying out what you're looking to do in a local music store (with your own gear) to see what you'll eventually
want - buying an amp is a big decision since that's a little more than half of your tone.
I still think the idea of running a really good BIG WARM clean amp with some pedals behind it is the simplest and easiest route to get a good tone
(spend the $$ on a nice clean tube amp that you can dirty up). As I said, the Fender Super-Reverb is one of the best clean tube amps available.
I’ve done both, and still like to run two amps (when I can) connected with a Whirlwind A/B (one for clean and one for dirty).
This way I still have all my pedals at my disposal for each amp.
Cheers . . .

- Ian C.T. vom Saal

lucylespian

Or you could get a H&K Switchblade.

Ellaways has a couple in stock, a 212 , just over 2K, at Underwood and a 1x12 at Kedron which is under 2K. saw them yesterday.

Check the tone clpis on the website, you will be impressed at the range of those things.

Amp OD is way more fun than pedals, more dimensional.

seanw1010

check on some dr. z amps, they make copies of marshalls, only better than the ones marshall makes, for less $$

MichaelMcKevin

Fuchs ODS 50


Period. Might run u a bit more than $2000 but it'll be worth the extra bit.

ianvomsaal

lucylespian wrote:

Check the tone clpis on the website, you will be impressed at the range of those things.

Yeah, listening to clips is always a good idea . . . but you'll really want to play any amp, pedal, or guitar (with your own gear) before
you purchase since most sound clips you hear are usually messed with in some way - wether it be cleaned up or compressed, added
effects, or what-have-you in the computer beforehand (lets face it, people/companies want to sell their product to you).

- Ian

lucylespian

Guys, ya gotta remember that amps cost 3 times as much here in Oz, typically No use suggesting boutique US stuff to us here, sadly.

samquigley

You'll pick up an Orange AD30r for under $2000 if you do your homework. I did.

ianvomsaal

Kegzy05, I take it you've looked here: click here: Gladesville Guitar Factory
Everyone not from Australia . . .
Try to remember that you'll need to add aprox 11.907% to the USA dollar to equal the AUD dollar.
That’s why I was recommending used Fender amps to try and keep him around his $2000 price point.
Amps in Australia are really marked up (I'm guessing due to: shipping, availability, and the sheer fact that they can).
Example:
A Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 1X12 normally sells in the US for $649.99 - in Australia the same amp sells for around $1699.
On the higher end . . .
A Bad Cat 'Classic Cat' Combo that sells for around $1449.00 in the US sells for around $4895 in Australia (crazy mark-up).

By the way, that Fender Rod Deluxe is a decent little 40 Watt tube/valve amp (and has enough power/volume for almost any venue).
Cheers . . .

- Ian C.T. vom Saal

Kegzy05

thanks everyone i feel a bit more informed now of whats what. I think i'll go with just a clean amp like you said ian. Think my problem is I want to rush in and get one right away but like you said it would pay to sample a few etc.. thanks for the help!

lucylespian

The mark-up is mostly because they can. OUr dolalr used to be a lot weaker, and ebay was in it's infancy, so people accept paying high prices for imported gear, whichis mostly from the USA.

Now the dollar is stronger, some prices have come down, espon stuff people can easily post, or carry on a plane, because of competition.
The weight and size of amps make it more daunting to consider posting, and distributors are keeping the extra profits they are realising from the exchange rate changes, because there is no effective open market competition to make them do otherwise.
So there is not a lot of movement at the retail end of things, because the retailers are still paying higher prices.

Have a chat to a tech about teh Fender HOt Rods. The guy I use sees them with serious overheating problems, and says they have cheap components. They are popular because of their low pric compared to other stuff. The Switchbaldes are very competittive, and you can try them at Ellaways yourself. A couple of guys on other fiorums have them, and are very happy.
Always remember when Americans give you advice, they are incredibly Ameri-centric, and do not consider products from other countries.
If it's not "Made in the USA", it barely exists.

Anon

lucylespian wrote:

Always remember when Americans give you advice, they are incredibly Ameri-centric, and do not consider products from other countries.
If it's not "Made in the USA", it barely exists.

ouch. that's very, very harsh. i got one of the new mini matons, the same one diesel uses, (i have always been a maton nut), and there are so many people here (USA), who fully love it, now they have seen and played it. they had never even heard of maton until seeing mine.
it kinda makes it really hard for them to recommend an aussie brand of anything most of the time because they just have not had the exposure to it. i honestly don't think it's intentional and it would be for no reason other than they have absolutely brilliant gear there, so why look around? if i was born in USA i doubt i'd be playing a maton. if that makes sense.

keeponrockin

Pj_Gurl wrote:

ouch. that's very, very harsh. i got one of the new mini matons, the same one diesel uses, (i have always been a maton nut), and there are so many people here (USA), who fully love it, now they have seen and played it. they had never even heard of maton until seeing mine.
it kinda makes it really hard for them to recommend an aussie brand of anything most of the time because they just have not had the exposure to it. i honestly don't think it's intentional and it would be for no reason other than they have absolutely brilliant gear there, so why look around? if i was born in USA i doubt i'd be playing a maton. if that makes sense.

And on that same coin, If I was born in the USA I doubt I'd have two godin guitars, and a Traynor amp.

MichaelMcKevin

keeponrockin wrote:

And on that same coin, If I was born in the USA I doubt I'd have two godin guitars, and a Traynor amp.

I was born in the USA and I do have a Godin and a Traynor... and they're my only electric guitar and amp.

I don't think it's really fair to say gear "does not exist" to us if it's not Made in the US. Maybe it seems that way here on the PJ forum because the only guitars we talk about are Gibson and Fender. If you look over to http://www.thegearpage.net/board , you'll see plenty of guys playing Tokai, Edwards, and many older Japanase and Korean made guitars. Quailty is more of a concern than where it is made. This forum has a lot of image as a factor of what people are buying.

You've got to understand, too, that this is a Pearl Jam forum. The majority of the guitarists on this forum are beginner-intermediate players heavily influenced by Pearl Jam. Of course they're going to be looking at Les Paul's, SG's, Strats, and Tele's almost all the time.

lucylespian

I'm not just referencing comments on this forum. I know there are plenty of more open-minded people in the US. I have been reading comments on a number of forums for a year or so, to form that impression.
I guess I made that comment because even though other brands get mentioned in these discussions, those comments are frequently ignored. This includes referneces to CAnadian stuff as well.
I have also seen the phrase "country of origin" used to describe Asian guitars, and generally condescending remarks made.
I personally feel that JApanese manufacture is outstanding, and very consistent. "Made in Japan" has long been a standard of excellence her in OZ, but lots of remarks from US based posters seem to treat the Japanese with disdain.
IN a discussion about Gretsch (different forum) I saw this, "the quality has improved since Fender took over, I have heard". Well, for a start Fender has not taken over Gretsch, and the quality is just fine , thanks. I have a Japanese Gretsch, and it's the best made guitar I have, out of a strong field including 2 Gibson Custom shops.
Those comments just reflect a suspicious ignorance of products not made in the USA.

MichaelMcKevin

The only other assumption that can be made is that most of the people who frequent this forum, epecially this section, are North American. We recommend US gear because that's pretty much all we're surrounded with. I don't often read people's "Location:" on their post. Had I read Kegzy's, I would certainly not have recommended a Fuchs amp.

Anon

GivenToCarve wrote:

I don't often read people's "Location:" on their post.

haha that made me smile! that's very true! i'm not sure what i would recommend for someone whose location is in my tree

exhausted

vox's are very particular about how receptive they are to certain pedals. not really a blues flavour either.

i honestly don't see what the issue is here.

if the laney has a good clean foundation. just go buy an mi audio (an aussie company. how terribly progressive of me) crunchbox or a zvex box of rock to get the marshal flavour and one of the numerous vox flavoured pedals for the vox tones.

hipkitty oxblood
menatone top boost in a can
olc english channel etc.

ianvomsaal

lucylespian wrote:

Have a chat to a tech about the Fender HOt Rods. The guy I use sees them with serious overheating problems, and says they have cheap components. They are popular because of their low pric compared to other stuff. The Switchbaldes are very competittive, and you can try them at Ellaways yourself. A couple of guys on other fiorums have them, and are very happy.

Amusing how the topic of this post has changed.
I've used a HOT ROD quite a bit for a few years now and have NEVER experienced any overheating - I'd love to talk to one of those ill feeling techs.
Every tech I've spoken with has said the HR's are fine amps (especially if you get the OMEGA mod, and maybe change the output tranny to Mercury Mag).

lucylespian wrote:

Always remember when Americans give you advice, they are incredibly Ameri-centric, and do not consider products from other countries. If it's not "Made in the USA", it barely exists.

I beg to differ - that's NOT TRUE - it's an entirely subjective/judgmental statement.
Sure there are "American-Made" snobs, but there are just as many "UK-Made" and "Japanese-Made" snobs (I've seen it everywhere - it's not just in the US).
I won't hesitate to say that I own a few American guitars, but the guitar I've been using (almost exclusively for about a year now) is a semi-hollowbody
that was "MADE IN CHINA" - so I'm by no way "Ameri-centric" and have never thought "If it's not "Made in the USA", it barely exists" (actually far from it
since I love Marshall, Cornford, Hiwatt, VOX, & Orange amps - owned a few of each). I own a few Yamaha and Ibanez Electrics, a few Alvarez yairi, and have
owned a Guyton, Van Zandt, Moon, and Bacchus guitars (and funny, many of those are American knockoffs). I tend to take the ameri-centric generalization a
bit personally since I don't have a preference as to where the gear comes from, so long as it works well and gets me the tone I'm after.

- Ian

lucylespian

ianvomsaal wrote:

Amusing how the topic of this post has changed.
I've used a HOT ROD quite a bit for a few years now and have NEVER experienced any overheating - I'd love to talk to one of those ill feeling techs.
Every tech I've spoken with has said the HR's are fine amps (especially if you get the OMEGA mod, and maybe change the output tranny to Mercury Mag).

I beg to differ - that's NOT TRUE - it's an entirely subjective/judgmental statement.
Sure there are "American-Made" snobs, but there are just as many "UK-Made" and "Japanese-Made" snobs (I've seen it everywhere - it's not just in the US).
I won't hesitate to say that I own a few American guitars, but the guitar I've been using (almost exclusively for about a year now) is a semi-hollowbody
that was "MADE IN CHINA" - so I'm by no way "Ameri-centric" and have never thought "If it's not "Made in the USA", it barely exists" (actually far from it
since I love Marshall, Cornford, Hiwatt, VOX, & Orange amps - owned a few of each). I own a few Yamaha and Ibanez Electrics, a few Alvarez yairi, and have
owned a Guyton, Van Zandt, Moon, and Bacchus guitars (and funny, many of those are American knockoffs). I tend to take the ameri-centric generalization a
bit personally since I don't have a preference as to where the gear comes from, so long as it works well and gets me the tone I'm after.

- Ian

Entirely subjective generalization, correct, but still worth keeping in mind.
I didn't say American stuff is not good, I have a house full of it.
The Australian market is TOTALLY different to the US one, though, and needs to be appraoched differently. A second hand Blues Junior will typically sell for $900 on ebay, for example, and there is stock of available second hand stuff to talk of.
Our economy is much more closely tied to Asia, and this really affects prices and availability of stuff.
The tech in question is a bit hormonal and has little nice to say about any modern amp, AND only sees problem amps, but I was just passing along stuff I had heard, without vouching for it.

Kegzy05

exhausted wrote:

vox's are very particular about how receptive they are to certain pedals. not really a blues flavour either.

Im not going to pretend i know half of what some people are saying lol but i appreciate the feedback. Im an apprentice tradesperson (dont earn much money) and I played on a 10 watt peavey for years, i upgraded to the laney and now im looking for something new. So the vox amp wouldn't run various effects pedals very well? Obviously im a huge pj fan, and im thinking of trading in my crappy korg multi effects processor for the individual pedals on a board along the lines of mikes setup in the "ten" sessions i.e (Mxr phaser, Rotovibe, Delay, Tubescreamer etc..) Would the vox ac30 handle this? cause thats the model ive been looking at.. thanks guys

Pacomc79

For 2K you might be able to find both.

Decent used Marshall DSL or Plexi head and a Vox or other EL84 amp then an amp switcher to blend the tones. Play a ton of different stuff before you completely decide.

Dr. Z. Matchless. etc.

My choice would be a Matchless HC30 or Clubman. DR Z has a few different excellent designs and if you are looking at Vox the Hayseed 30's are excellent. Also Fuchs, Two Rock.....Bogner Shiva.

The Mesa Heartbreaker or 4x10 blue angel should you come across them should peak your interest.

exhausted

Kegzy05 wrote:

Im not going to pretend i know half of what some people are saying lol but i appreciate the feedback. Im an apprentice tradesperson (dont earn much money) and I played on a 10 watt peavey for years, i upgraded to the laney and now im looking for something new. So the vox amp wouldn't run various effects pedals very well? Obviously im a huge pj fan, and im thinking of trading in my crappy korg multi effects processor for the individual pedals on a board along the lines of mikes setup in the "ten" sessions i.e (Mxr phaser, Rotovibe, Delay, Tubescreamer etc..) Would the vox ac30 handle this? cause thats the model ive been looking at.. thanks guys

the vox will handle modulations and delays etc. fine. and it handles lots of distortions and overdrives fine as well. it just has a particular sound that works very well with some and not with others.

if you can, try out what you do have in front of it and see how it goes. the AC30 is a great amp, there's no doubt about it.

Kegzy05

Sounds good, thanks man yeah im definately going to do ALOT of trying before buying..

reaching hands

i sold my jcm 900 and stuck with my laney vc30 2x12 (ac30 clone) and its the best decision i ever made!

because its class a, its a beautiful warm sounding amp, the gain channel is bluesy, i run a maxon OD-9 ontop of the gain for solo/boost and i love it!

each to their own but like ian mentioned, a clean amp is the best base to start from. be cheeky and shop around. i got my vc30 for £90 second hand in pawn shop, its worth nearer £400 brand new

samquigley

If you go the Vox route, remember this: there is NO better sounding overdrive for it than a Hotcake. Bear in mind, though ... this pedal sounds like arse through virtually every other amp out there. Fact.

deadnote

have you tried peavey i found its the best setup in the biz jack

Kegzy05

Whats the difference between class A amps and class B etc?? I heard that class A runs at 100 percent input or something but what does this mean for me? How would it affect me and my playing? The vox ac30 isnt class A i dont think where as i think alot of laney's are....