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Guitar Vs. Effects When Playing Live...

howmuchdifferencehowmuchdifference Posts: 25
edited October 2006 in Musicians and Gearheads
I'm sure if we all played in large arenas and amphitheaters, things like picks and string gauge could be heard by the average listener. But if you're like me and play in a local originals band; you're performing in bars and city festivals most of the time. And usually with mixed results in relation to sound quality. So the question up for debate is this:

When playing at local drinking establishments what makes the greatest impact on the average listener -- Is it the quality of the instrument? Or, the effects in your arsenal? Or, maybe the amp?

With the holidays approaching it would be nice to have a good idea of places to invest for getting a better sound onstage...
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    It's all in the hands. But I would invest in a good tube amp!
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Vedderlution_BabyVedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
    I have yet to find a effect that makes me play better but I get what you're saying. Honestly? I would focus on playing the actual instrument and the quality of it then go from there. but having some effects is always a plus.
  • NovawindNovawind Posts: 836
    I'm gonna agree with keeponrockin, tube amp is critical. Playing on my solid-state simply does not -feel- the same.

    A nice delay doesn't hurt either. Speaking of, has anyone used the Boss DD-20 (Giga Delay)? The sound-on-sound recording is supposed to be pretty good.
    If idle hands are the devil's workshop, he must not be very productive.

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  • Vedderlution_BabyVedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
    Novawind wrote:
    I'm gonna agree with keeponrockin, tube amp is critical. Playing on my solid-state simply does not -feel- the same.

    A nice delay doesn't hurt either. Speaking of, has anyone used the Boss DD-20 (Giga Delay)? The sound-on-sound recording is supposed to be pretty good.


    What exactly is a tube amp? I'm new at all of this guitar specs. I got a Fender Frontman 15G amp
  • moster78moster78 Posts: 1,591
    Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:
    What exactly is a tube amp? I'm new at all of this guitar specs. I got a Fender Frontman 15G amp

    Here's the highly technical explanation:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_amplifier

    Don't worry, I don't understand most of it myself. A tube amp is just a better sounding amp, in most people's opinion.
  • MishralMishral Posts: 211
    I would put it in this order:
    1: Your own plain. if you can´t play, the stuff doesn´t mather.
    And if you are really good, the stuff is not that imporntant either.

    2: A good Tube amp! Thats the best!

    3: A good guitar.

    4: Now you can talk about effects and stuff. I would, in my case, keep the signal as clear as possible and only go with an good amp.
    Maybe a delay, becaus I love the effect of it. :)

    Also i´m not sure about the order of guitar and amp. But thats basicly how I think.
    "The things you own will end up owning you"
  • Vedderlution_BabyVedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
    moster78 wrote:
    Here's the highly technical explanation:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_amplifier

    Don't worry, I don't understand most of it myself. A tube amp is just a better sounding amp, in most people's opinion.


    wow I gave up
  • moster78moster78 Posts: 1,591
    Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:
    wow I gave up

    http://guitarguru.blogspot.com/2005/02/tube-amps-vs-solid-state.html

    Try this one.
  • howmuchdifferencehowmuchdifference Posts: 25
    Thanks for the input, peoples.

    Maybe it'd also help if I went over what my setup was like now:
    I play mainly a Fender Squire. I also have a Hamer Duotone--like Stone used to play but w/o the tremelo mod. I run that into my Cry Baby Wah, Korg Toneworks Multi Effect, Ibenez TS-9 (Analogman Mod) and then into a Silvertone Tube Amp.

    I feel like the basics are there, but where to go from here? The decision's been tough...
  • MetalGod75MetalGod75 Posts: 262
    howmuchdifference wrote:
    Thanks for the input, peoples.

    Maybe it'd also help if I went over what my setup was like now:
    I play mainly a Fender Squire. I also have a Hamer Duotone--like Stone used to play but w/o the tremelo mod. I run that into my Cry Baby Wah, Korg Toneworks Multi Effect, Ibenez TS-9 (Analogman Mod) and then into a Silvertone Tube Amp.

    I feel like the basics are there, but where to go from here? The decision's been tough...
    my advice would be get a better guitar and amp.the next level up from what you play will probably be twice the cost but you'll def notice a difference
    Cornell pwns u
  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    I've played in big places, and one thing always holds true:

    When the drummer and bass player kick in, all your effects and tone settings are out the window!.. Just try to keep up! :D

    I don't think picks and string gauges are as important as:

    Playing in time
    Playing in tune
    Playing with the best tone.
    I think it's your guitar and your amp that are most important.
    The audience isn't going to know that you have 10's on, or have a Lollar or a Fralin pickup. They're hearing the whole band.

    You have to keep your head together to play with the dynamics of the band.
    If you're standing there with your adrenaline rushing and hammering down on those strings and you're overpowering the amp, then you're tone is gone.
    If you know your amp and guitar's dynamics then you can keep your tone alive.

    The other important thing that you need is a good sound tech! It's amazing when you stand on a stage with a 100 watt amp cranking and you can't even hear it. You need a good monitor mix so you can hear yourself, and rest of the band, in the mix.

    THEN you worry about effects, but I think that's last on the list. They're important if you have a signature sound that is famous,,, for instance Andy Summers in the Police. That chorus shimmer and that bit of delay is recognizable, but if he didn't have it, he still would sound like Andy Summers because of his playing style, but there would be a bit missing.
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    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
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  • howmuchdifferencehowmuchdifference Posts: 25
    who's_pearljam? wrote:
    The audience isn't going to know that you have 10's on, or have a Lollar or a Fralin pickup. They're hearing the whole band.

    I always thought that. Well, the truth hurts, but it looks like I'm in the market for a new guitar/amp. I'll leave the Squire vs. American Fender discussion to the other thread, but what about tube amps? Anyone got any suggestions? And you gotta realize I paid $500 for my Silvertone Twin Twelve...
  • moster78moster78 Posts: 1,591
    howmuchdifference wrote:
    I always thought that. Well, the truth hurts, but it looks like I'm in the market for a new guitar/amp. I'll leave the Squire vs. American Fender discussion to the other thread, but what about tube amps? Anyone got any suggestions? And you gotta realize I paid $500 for my Silvertone Twin Twelve...

    That one could be a twenty page discussion. There's tons of recommendations and reviews going back in the forums, everything from Traynor, to Fender, to Orange, Peavey, Marshall, Vox... the list goes on. Your best bet, go down to your local store, plug in and play. I myself have a Fender Blues Junior, which is 15W, tube, and I love it, but thats just me personally.
  • gobrowns19gobrowns19 Posts: 1,447
    As stated, it's your own choice, but I would recommend a Vox. They sound quite good, especially for the price, and you can find different effects built into it, for a double whammy.
    Happiness is only real when shared
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    I'd say find your tone and build on it. My favorite live player, Jimmy Page, basically had two tones live. His normal tone and overdrive. Like in life, find what you are searching for and then treasure it.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    You don't need a big amp to play a smaller club...and by smaller I mean anything less than 1500 people.

    Also, something to consider that is often overlooked...just about every club has terrible power. Getting good, clean power to your rig will help you sound better, and save your amp from electrical wear and tear. Invest in a line conditioner :)
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  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    I would suggest a Traynor YCV40WR for amp (waits for HailHail to pipe in).
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • harrisonmerwinharrisonmerwin Posts: 766
    keeponrockin wrote:
    I would suggest a Traynor YCV40WR for amp (waits for HailHail to pipe in).

    and just to start this argument again....i honestly really apreciate what teh fender hot rod deluxe brings to the table of affordable tube amps. (also waiting for hail)
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  • All Those YesterdaysAll Those Yesterdays Posts: 2,723
    All in the player and the heart. Money means nothing.
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  • howmuchdifferencehowmuchdifference Posts: 25
    surferdude wrote:
    I'd say find your tone and build on it. My favorite live player, Jimmy Page, basically had two tones live. His normal tone and overdrive. Like in life, find what you are searching for and then treasure it.

    I really appreciate all the help. I guess I'm shooting for the Mike McCready "life wasted" tone. I've got another guitarist in my band with a cleaner tone and my bass player has a good thick tone. The three together seem to converge really well. But, there always seems to be something a little lacking -- especially in my solos.

    If you want to give me a listen (sans rythm guitar) -- I've got some stuff up on myspace: http://www.myspace.com/dearcalamity...
  • PJ-SinPJ-Sin Posts: 348
    Guitars, amps and effects are all personal preferences which we could have a 100 page disscusion about. The most important thing (which I think someone already said) is just being a good musician and being able to play with the whole band. Because even if you have the best sound in the world, it doesnt mean shit if you can't play.
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  • PJ-SinPJ-Sin Posts: 348
    howmuchdifference wrote:
    But, there always seems to be something a little lacking -- especially in my solos.

    Try to use a little delay or chorus when you go into the solo. This is what I do and it works pretty well.
    http://www.byproductmusic.com
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  • howmuchdifferencehowmuchdifference Posts: 25
    PJ-Sin wrote:
    Try to use a little delay or chorus when you go into the solo. This is what I do and it works pretty well.

    Thanks. I usually use have my TS-9 on all the time and then punch in some extra distortion on my Korg board during the solo. That seems to help a little, too. Chorus is something I hadn't considered though...
  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    I guess I misread your original question! I thought you were talking about playing in big places.

    Well, the whole tuning, timing, tone and listening to the band thing still applies, but you probably don't need a big amp. Like Enharmonic said,,, big amps are overpowering in most clubs.
    If most of the places you play are small, and have a PA system and you can mike it, then a small 25 watter or less is usually fine.

    I think the FIRST question is:

    What do you have that you like?
    If the Squier plays well, and you're comfortable with it, then maybe a pickup change would be in order. Pickups are one of the most important things in the tone chain and you can get a big bang for your buck. Maybe a hotter set of pickups if you don't feel like you're getting ooomph from them.
    Do you like your amp with anyone elses guitar? If the amp has potential, then maybe you can keep it. If it's old, maybe a tube change. If not, then a new amp should help.

    I would play around with different guitars through that amp,,, and vica versa. Play the guitars you have through other amps and see what strikes you.

    Also, when you're playing onstage in small places, keep your amp near you if you can. If you keep it on a stand and aim it towards you a bit, you can hear yourself better. Play around with your amp's volume settings and find the sweet spot. Every amp has one where your pickups and it have a nice balance and punch.
    I like rolling back on the volume while playing rhthym and rolling it up to ten in a solo, so that sweet spot is there.
    If you're close to your amp, you can keep it on the edge of feeding back more easily when you're soloing,,,,,



    IF it's not too loud for the sound guy!!!! If you're amp's too powerful, then you might not be able to crank it up enough to get those power tubes humming!

    Also, in soloing, work on your picking technique. You can get a lot of dynamic with your pick or fingers that can really affect the amp's sound.

    It sounds like you have decent pedals, and maybe a little color like a chorus or delay would help, too, like pj-sin said.


    Ha ha,,,,, what was the question again?

    :D
    Be kind, man
    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
    __________________________________
  • howmuchdifferencehowmuchdifference Posts: 25
    chiefojibwa wrote:
    i see no reason to get rid of that silvertone.

    I'm going to listen to it with a couple of other guitars first, but I think you're right. Although I might invest in a couple 12" celestions... It has that vintage tube sound because it's--well, vintage! And it's definitely loud enough for the rooms that I play.

    I'd put a couple of new pickups in my Squire, but the neck rod is broken in it, so I won't be investing in it anymore... Maybe I'll try out my Hamer Duotone a little more with its Duncan pickups...

    Thanks for all the ideas... priceless...
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