Drummers: Who struggles with timing?

harmless_little_f***

It's an arse. I'm in a decent band, and when I'm up there I'm thinking yeah, great, this'll sound great. Play a recorded practice back to myself, however, and my timing's all over the place. Arrrggghh.

Why is it when you're 'in the moment' everything sounds so great, even if your timing might actually suck? Don't get me wrong, I've played drums for ages, but always found this a struggle. Any tips on improving time-keeping skills?

Novawind

Do a riff with a metronome, then without it. Repeat 1000x.

chopitdown

like the above poster said, metronome. Also find out where you're losing the time. Can you keep in the pocket for the most part but lose time on the fills? If you are, I'd try not to be so busy with the fills. As you can keep time more then start to make them a little more complicated. Yes it's boring, but timing is much more important than being flashy.

harmless_little_f***

chopitdown wrote:

like the above poster said, metronome. Also find out where you're losing the time. Can you keep in the pocket for the most part but lose time on the fills? If you are, I'd try not to be so busy with the fills. As you can keep time more then start to make them a little more complicated. Yes it's boring, but timing is much more important than being flashy.

I agree with this; I have a steady groove, I'm OK transitioning from verse to chorus, but sometimes off when transitioning between song 'sections' if that makes sense. Bridges, intros, etc.

chopitdown

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

I agree with this; I have a steady groove, I'm OK transitioning from verse to chorus, but sometimes off when transitioning between song 'sections' if that makes sense. Bridges, intros, etc.

that's where i struggled first when i was starting out. The transitions are tough b/c the tendency is to try to squeeze 5 beats into 4 then it comes off sloppy. Also, do you notice it playing live more or playing to a CD? Don't forget that playing live you have 2-4 more people who are trying to play "in time". If the guitarists aren't following YOU for the time, they're playing off an inner clock that may not be steady. Which leads you with 3 or 4 people playing to different speeds and it can get hectic. Try simplifying your approach though, the flashiness / complexity will get there and if it doesn't come, there are worse things to be known as than a drummer who can keep solid time.

surferdude

chopitdown wrote:

that's where i struggled first when i was starting out. The transitions are tough b/c the tendency is to try to squeeze 5 beats into 4 then it comes off sloppy. Also, do you notice it playing live more or playing to a CD? Don't forget that playing live you have 2-4 more people who are trying to play "in time". If the guitarists aren't following YOU for the time, they're playing off an inner clock that may not be steady. Which leads you with 3 or 4 people playing to different speeds and it can get hectic. Try simplifying your approach though, the flashiness / complexity will get there and if it doesn't come, there are worse things to be known as than a drummer who can keep solid time.

I definitely play off an inner clock that can be off. During those transition times I expect the drummer to go a little heavier on the bass drum or snare to bring me back in time.

I'm of the philosophy that the drummer sets the tempo once the song starts and it's better for the whole band to be playing slightly off tempo as a unit than two people playing the right tempo, and two people playing the wrong tempo. It's much easier to make corrections if you are all going in the same direction to start with.

chopitdown

surferdude wrote:

I definitely play off an inner clock that can be off. During those transition times I expect the drummer to go a little heavier on the bass drum or snare to bring me back in time.

I'm of the philosophy that the drummer sets the tempo once the song starts and it's better for the whole band to be playing slightly off tempo as a unit than two people playing the right tempo, and two people playing the wrong tempo. It's much easier to make corrections if you are all going in the same direction to start with.

very good points. I think that shows the importance of communication and the band members helping each other. If a guitarist needs something to help with time during transitions or a drummer needs help in knowing when to end a song etc... "communication" (physical motion, style of play, patterns) is essential.

Drummachine

hi guys, youŕe all right about what you´ve said so far about developing proper time skills.

I had problem that I was playing on top and I didn´t want to but it came kind out of my personality. So I started to play along with some well-known laid back drummers and after half year not doing it so hardly and often as it may seem I developed fluent,precise and (finally:) laid-back feel.

If you take Matt for instance he is much more laid-back on Superunknown than on Live on two legs- you can see that even such a brilliant drummer might have a problem with this thing- the majority of songs on LIve on two legs are speeding and they are not as we say here sat-down...

I saw PJ in Prague last week and was blown off with way they were playing-it was far better than on 2003 Pennstate college bootleg that I have-not the sound but the whole band playing time-wise and together with no one speeding and rushing forward.

I would recommend you to start listening to Eric Kretz (Stone temple pilots),Sean Kinney(Alice in chains) and for PJ the most precise timekeeper was Dave A.

I believe that each kind of music prefers different style and approach-funky music needs real solid timekeeper to have groove and there you need to play on the beat, but rock and grunge(or alt. rock or post-grunge...whatever...:)) preffers to have really loose but yet still precise feel and time.

So get yourself a metronome, play it on your own, play different songs along with it,than take it to band rehearsals and you´ll see where the problem is,whether it is in changing song sections as gentlemen above said or it is in someone else. But definitely itś better to sound good as a band and speed up little bit than be messed up all around the click....:)

Keep rockin...

DriftingByTheStorm

Drummachine wrote:

and for PJ the most precise timekeeper was Dave A.

uh ... you lost me there bob ???

yosi1

Drummachine wrote:

I would recommend you to start listening to Eric Kretz (Stone temple pilots),Sean Kinney(Alice in chains)

Awesome examples of steady drummers. Especially Kretz, who is not so flashy, but has incredible timing.

I have found for myself, that when playing with other people my timing becomes much better (not because I'm playing off them). Don't know if anyone else experiences this. But to work on my timing alone, I tried playing with a metronome, but its hard. I find that I often can't hear the metronome well enough. I think the key is possibly just practicing on a pad with a metronome, and then trying without, and then again...

harrisonmerwin

its hard for a band to develop time if they have a sketchy drummer. Because if they do follow the drummer, and the drummer is off, your goign to have what i call a "tempo wave" which is somewhat dreaded. you can be increasing or decreasing by up to 10 bpm, but because "everyone is in sync" with the drummer, its impossible to tell by the band. my band varies probly within the 2-3 bpm range and we are trying to improve upon that. a metronome does not really help us because of our style of progression changes, but just solid practising does. This "tempo wave" is most dreaded in the studio. Because the typical way of recording is to do drums first, then build up through there (bass/low strings, followed by guitars/pianos/high strings, finished with vocals) by the time your ready to do your leads or repeating riffs, it could be whack out. assumign the drummer was playing medicore and was changign the tempo within 7 BPM (3.5 up or down), then the bass player does his take and is off the drums a bit, then yrou rythem does a take and its off the bass and drums...where do you sit after that? your music just sounds off and its hard to pin it down. even with a full band recording in a "live" situation, its still hard to stay in time, and one mistake ruins 3+ takes. "perfect" drumming is achievable but its hard to practise because when your transitioning between different tempo's of a song, you may eventually be getting faster every verse or slower every chorus. this is where playign to a varied cd is handy because it gives you control and consistancy over your timing. try and choose tunes that switch it up a little more. try wolfmother, that's a good trial at checking your tempo skills.