Building a 212 Speaker Cabinet
keeponrockin
Posts: 7,446
Alright, as a project for class, my dad, grandfather and I would like to build a 212 speaker cabinet from scratch. My grandfather has the woodworking know how to do a project. Is there anything I need to watch out for in such a project, or is it pretty basic?
I'm thinking after reading reviews the Eminence Red Coat the Governor would be a good choice, but I need to research this more thoroughly. The amp I'm gonna be primarily running is a Traynor YCV80Q, with 4'10 speakers.
I also don't know weather I want to stain the cabinet, make it look like a piece of furnature, or to cover it with tolex. Again, if anyone has suggestions with this type of project, it'll be greatly appreciated!
I'll take pictures step by step with this whole project, and hopefully she'll turn out!!!
I'm thinking after reading reviews the Eminence Red Coat the Governor would be a good choice, but I need to research this more thoroughly. The amp I'm gonna be primarily running is a Traynor YCV80Q, with 4'10 speakers.
I also don't know weather I want to stain the cabinet, make it look like a piece of furnature, or to cover it with tolex. Again, if anyone has suggestions with this type of project, it'll be greatly appreciated!
I'll take pictures step by step with this whole project, and hopefully she'll turn out!!!
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
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speaker cabinet design - regardless, I'd go solid wood for my cabinet - Marshall started
using some really crap presswood many years ago, hence many players are now looking for
much older cabinets because they sound better than anything Marshall has made in 20yrs).
- Second, you need to think about design - porting, open or closed back, etc. Open up a
cabinet and take a look inside - you can see what goes into a good cab design. There's nothing
wrong with a nice wood cabinet (look at some of Mesa Boogies stuff), but you need to know what
goes into a really good cabinet design (functionaity) - I'd recommend that you use a proven
cab design or you might end up with a great looking cabinet that sounds like complete shite.
- Third - personally I'd recommend click: Celestion G10 Speakers (these are basically the 10"
version of the Vintage-30 - one of the best all around speakers in the history of rock).
- Ian
<b><font color="red">CONTACT ME HERE</font>: www.myspace.com/ianvomsaal</b>
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I think I want to go closed back, just because the 4'10s are open back on the combo, and I wanna go 212 closed on the bottom for variation. I think I'm going to take the dimensions from the matching cab from my amp as a starting point and go from there in terms of dimensions.
http://traynoramps.com/products.asp?type=2&cat=18&id=174
I want to go like that with a straight front. I want this to look good AND sound good, and be durable. I'm just a little confused on where to start!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
How difficult would it be to cover the amp with the tolex?
Greenback and a Silver pup.
https://www.facebook.com/aghostwritersapology/
I'm sorry, I'm new at this!
generally, part of the back is fixed. that's where the jack would be. then there's a removable panel to make it open backed when desired. i'm trying to find a pic.
http://mhuss.com/SmallBox/CabBackOpen.jpg
It seems open back would be easier to build, true?
Most good speaker cabs are finger-jointed, so that's one big tip to start with.
I also second Ex's recommendation to build a convertible cab, where it's got a removable panel on the back so you could convert it to an open-backed cab later on. Usually, it's a 1/3-height panel that's fixed, with the speaker jack attached, and then a 2/3-height panel that can be removed. It can also be half-and-half, or a fixed panel on top and a fixed panel on bottom, with a removable panel in between.
I really like the Eminence speakers, so I'm not going to insist you use Celestions... but I'd recommend using a mis-matched pair to give you some options for tone down the line. I'd recommend a V30 (or Eminence clone) and a Silver Bell or Jensen alnico.
and i can now attest to the beauty of the alnico silver bell.
I'm getting excited about this project, although I have a ton more research to do. It's small things, like how do I attatch grille cloth, etc... This is gonna be an expensive project, so I wanna do it right.
How difficult would it be to tolex it, instead of leaving it natural?
Tolex is a little tougher... probably about the same amount of labor as sanding, staining, and clearcoating for a natural finish. But it's a pain nonetheless... stretching is the key part, followed closely by corners, seams, and glueing. If it was my thing to do, I'd probably go for a stain and clearcoat, and then use some nice hardware to finish up the cab (feet, handles, maybe some piping). If you use fingerjointed plywood, like I recommended earlier, your joints will show the ply layers, but I think it kinda looks cool like that.
With tolex, you cover the bigger areas first, the top, bottom, sides, and back. You need to stretch the tolex really tight, using glue to adhere the tolex to the cabinet. You can use upholstery staples to anchor the edges, but it's cleaner if you leave staples for the areas of the cabinet that will be hidden later. Once the tolex is stretched over the main parts of the cab, you cut out the corners (if needed) and glue the edges in, wrapping the tolex into the inside of the cab (use staples here, if you want). You want to give your back panel(s) and grill frame some extra space to allow for a double-layer of tolex (back) or a layer of tolex and a layer of grillcloth (front) in the gap between the edges.
There have to be some how-to guides somewhere online... be sure to search the web for any hints, tips, etc. before you start.
One last thing... plan out your hardware issues in advance, and maybe even buy the parts ahead of time, so you know how that will integrate into the cab's construction. Things like feet, handles, jack and jack panels, etc.
You've got to learn to cut in the corners and fold well - it's got to be exact or it looks shitty. Funny since I say This is exactly what I meant by suggesting birch, and by solid wood I mean don't use ANY particle board or presswood /pressboard since it doesn't resonate well (like what Marshall has been using for their backs for almost 20-years). Good birch plywood is wonderful to use, and I recommend it over all others. If you want to use solid planks of wood, go for it as well - many use pine (finger-join it) because it resonates okay and is fairly light and abundant - or you can use birch (but it'll take a lot more and be fairly heavy since most birch planks aren't very wide).
My recommendation is a good grade of birch plywood - And again, what I meant was no particleboard or pressboard - I said no presswood (we all know what I meant).
And by the way - I though you wanted to build a 4x10 cab (thus the V10 recommendation) - Just go with the Vintage-30's for a 2x12 cab.
- Ian
<b><font color="red">CONTACT ME HERE</font>: www.myspace.com/ianvomsaal</b>
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I think staining is gonna be the way to go.
I only have a few minutes before I leave for the weekend, but I've built a few cabinets for people.
The first thing you need to consider is your playing style. An open back cabinet like a Fender style Deluxe will sound a little brighter and disperse sound out the back. It's not really too complicated to design because it's meant to move air in all directions.
A closed back cabinet is an exercise in physics! Once you close the back you're creating air pressure that will dampen the action of the speakers and change the whole nature of the sound. You'll get more bass response and punch, but you really have to take the size and dimensions into consideration. The wrong size and the speakers won't be able to move back and forth as well, or they'll move too much and can be out of phase. Out of phase means they cancel the sound waves off each other.
There is a Q factor for speakers to consider,,,, I have a book, on it, but I can't find a link yet and I have to go for the weekend, but it's a factor that you take into consideration with the speakers you're using that has to do with the movement and damping of the air in the cab.
Closed back is much more directional. You'll be sending the sound out to the people right in front of the amp first.
That being said,,, for your first one, if you really want a 4X cabinet, no use redesigning the wheel!
Jim Marshall did that in the 60's so if you know somebody who has one, measure that sucker! If there's a music store around maybe they'd let you see the back. What you want are the dimensions of the inside cabinet, and where the baffles are in the cab and how they're attached. There's a difference in front mounted speakers and rear mounted, too.
Baltic birch plywood has been the favorite lately. 3/4 inch 11 ply with no gaps is what you want, and what is very hard to find now. It's in short supply. Same with Italian poplar 3/4 inch.
Second best is 3/4 inch 11 ply "no gap" birch. (Not just birch on the outside layers, but all the way through. You aren't gonna find suitable plywood or wood at Home Depot, but try a lumber yard specializing in furniture and woodworking supplies and make sure it's "No gaps".
Solid wood can be a good choice but plywood is actually stronger and dimensionally stable and doesn't tend to warp as much as solid wood. Solid wood varies in quality and density more than plywood, and needs a good finish to seal so moisture and humidity doesn't effect it as much, and it might be hard to find a nice piece of tone wood that thick and wide. I'm not into using exotic woods anymore. I've been to the jungles that are disappearing and I hate to see that stuff go.
I think it's a great project and if you want a 4X cabinet, I say
Clone a Marshall, finger joint it, and rock out!
If you have a nice outside surface on the wood, then maybe a nice finish. You can always tolex it later. If you build a good looking cabinet, you surely can tolex it!
Good project and good luck!
Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
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I think I'm gonna do an open back, just because I don't have the sound knowledge to do a closed back *yet*
After listening to sound clips, the Eminence Cannabis Rex sounds the best from there site. I'm gonna play a vintage 30 as well, see how that sounds.
Thanks for all the info guys, its a big help! I'm gonna start to tackle this project in a couple weeks! Pics of all the progress of course! I know I'll be coming back lots!
In case you haven't learned it already, it is generally assumed that running two speakers in parallel will sound better than running two speakers in series. I don't remember the ultimate reason for this, but it is fairly agreed-upon. So keep that in mind as you figure out your speaker choices. I assume you DO know that wiring two speakers in parallel will drop their collective impedance (ohms) to half of each speaker's. I.E. Two 8-ohm speakers in parallel will be a 4-ohm load, two 16-ohm speakers make an 8-ohm load, and so on.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING PATIENT!!
I'm just ordering parts soon, and I want to know all I can!
Nevermind, I just got the answer. Although the power would be 1/3 to the bottom cab I could do it.
However, this is the real world, so we all have to run some mis-matched impedances from time to time. You can generally run a cabinet with an impedance number HIGHER than the amp, although I'd keep it within one level (impedances generally are multiples of 2, so 2-ohm is followed by 4-ohm, which is followed by 8-ohm, then 16-ohm, and finally 32-ohm). I wouldn't run a 16-ohm cabinet with a 4-ohm amp, but so far as I know, this isn't going to blow your amp up. With your 4-ohm amp, an 8-ohm cab is going to be safe.
However, you NEVER want to run it in the reverse, where the speaker cab is a LOWER impedance than the amp's rated output. So, in your case, DO NOT run a 2-ohm cabinet off your amp's 4-ohm load. This is creating a circuit that is begging to short. This can and will damage an amp, in most cases fatally.
When running a higher-impedance cabinet than your amp, the amp essentially has to work harder to overcome a higher impedance, which means that the amp's output in watts will be reduced when running this way. This is in no way a guarantee, but you would lose approximately 20-30% of your amp's output power by running a 4-ohm amp into an 8-ohm cab.
Running an 8-ohm cab off your 4-ohm amp will cause some tonal coloration, but it will be fairly negligible. Some folks can probably hear it, but it's not a HUGE change in tone. The biggest effect will be a slight loss of higher frequencies.
Cheers!