Recording Recommendations

Dirty Mosquito

Hello Friends, I have a question about recording.

I know that the thing now is Digital recording with a PC or Mac and Protools being the industry standard. Here's my dilema; I am limited on funds and can't afford a computer based recording setup at this time, and more importantly don't really care for the loss of warmth with digital recording.

I currently record on a Tascam 464 MKII 4-track tape recorder. To be honest, with my mic, tube preamp and quality cables and tapes, this thing makes great recordings. I love the warm sound and quality music on my tapes. Unfortunately as with analog recording you only get so many rewinds and plays before the tape starts to loose quality. The problem with my recorder is that it is only 4 tracks and I am in desperate need for at least 8 tracks of recording.

I guess my question is since I can't afford a full computer based setup, should I try to get a Tascam 8 track tape recorder, like the 488 or 688 or should I get something like the Korg D888 digital recorder and warm up the sound with tube preamps?

Both these options would be in my price range and would suit my recording needs.

To better help, the style of music I write and record would be a mixture of these styles:
Pearl Jam, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, The Doors, Hendrix and many others.

Hopefully someone can give me some tips or advice based on the info provided.

exhausted

stick with the 4 track and keep writing songs until you can something will at least 16 tracks.

the jump from 4 to 8 will be satisfying for about 10 seconds based on the style i think you're trying to record.

if it's just a stop gap until you can afford more, just hold off until you can afford to make the bigger jump.

that was my experience anyway.

Dirty Mosquito

exhausted wrote:

stick with the 4 track and keep writing songs until you can something will at least 16 tracks.

the jump from 4 to 8 will be satisfying for about 10 seconds based on the style i think you're trying to record.

if it's just a stop gap until you can afford more, just hold off until you can afford to make the bigger jump.

that was my experience anyway.

Thanks for the advice....I think I may have to do that.

IDgotI

Exhauseted's advice is great. I'd add the following. First you are dead on about the quality of analog over digital. Some of the recordings I made on my old(er) Tascam 244 sound much more lush and organic than anything I've done in digital.

That said, the digital gear has helped me improve the quality and just as importantly *quantity* of songs.

The power that comes from digital editing is pretty incedible and very helpful from a purely creative perspective. It makes finishing things *much* faster.

So sound quality*is* important... but of course the most important thing is self experssion, and making music.

If the four track makes that happen for you then great. Stick with it. Just don't be too quick to rule out digital if it also has a contribution to make to you creative flow. Yes the sound can be sucky... but don't forget, with digital the sound is a function of the quality of your Digital to Audio converters. Most people overlook that and just make recordings with whatever crap sound card they have.

If you take time to research the best DA converter set up... well... your recording sill won't sound as good as your four track ... that's just the truth... *but* they might sound a lot better than a lot of digital recordings you've heard.

Oh... and come to think of it... the more your track count goes up on *cassette tape* the more sound quality goes down.

This is because width of the tape being used for each track decreases with each track you ad.

Think of it this way. Stereo is two channel... Left speaker, right speaker.

Regular playback tapes have two channels on each side. Stereo left and right on Side 'A', Stereo left and right on Side 'B'.

If you put that tape in a four track, and ouly play it in one direction (no flipping) then presto! L & R on 'A' and the L & R on 'B' become L&R + L&R for a total of ... Four Tracks!

Now... if you put that same tape into an eight track Tascam (or Yamaha... really nice 8 tracks those Yamahas) the tape remains the same.

So how does the 8 track get four more tracks? By recording to narrower and narrower strips of tape.

Where once you had an eigth of an inch for Track "1" you now have a sixteenth of an inch... and unfortunately, the sound quality *does* go down as a result.

If you want to do 16 track analog you are looking at getting a reel to reel deck with much much wider tape.

There are problems even there. Vintage ampex tapes, and the stuff that was used to record all the classic albums we've heard aren't made anymore with the same sound quality or durability.

Why?

You're gonna love this... Whale oil.

I shit you not. Whale oil was a key ingreedient in classic studio grade recording tape. The newer synthetic stuff sounds crapy in comaprison, and vintage reels of tape command high prices these days.

Yes Pearl Jam can get their hands on plenty of old reels of ampex tape... but then they can also afford vintage guitars amps and univibes.

If you are looking to make great sounding demos at home with 16 track analog... after you shell out for the Otari reel to reel rig, and the $100 bucks a pop for single hour vintage reels of tape ... you might just start thinking that those digital recordings don't sound *that* bad.

Analog sounds better. It's true....true TRUE!!!

But the albums I was *able* to record on my computer beat the crap out of the ones I could *never* afford to record on a high quality Analog rig. Again, if I had PJ's recording budget it might be different... but unless you are *loaded* you're going to find that $100 bucks for an hour's worth of tape adds up *real* fast.

(BTW, I don't think whale oil was a factor in cassette tape, just the thicker studio grade tape you'd need to record 16 tracks with. There are modern synthetic plastic versions of this tape around, but the point is the sound quality of *those* tapes is not much better than digital... so what's the point?)

Something to consider.

Good luck. I DO agree with you... Analog DOES sound better... just don't let that stop you from making and recording your music.

Dirty Mosquito

Thanks IDgotI. I learned a lot from what you wrote. I thought about recording on 1/2 inch or 1-2 inch reel to reel tape, but I have no idea how to use one of those machines. I actually have a two track Teac Reel to Reel recorder in my mother's basement that beloned to my father. I had no idea that Whale oil was used and there was a difference for those tapes. I think I will stick with what I have until I can afford a G5 or Imac 20". Then I just need a really good interface and soundcard I believe to give me the sound I am looking for. I am sure with tons of research I can find a way to warm up the digital recordings to give them more life.

THanks again everyone for your words. I am pretty much an amateur at this stuff.

IDgotI

Dirty Mosquito wrote:

THanks again everyone for your words. I am pretty much an amateur at this stuff.

None of us were born knowing *any* of this. I've learned all of this over the course of the last eight years or so, and I can remember when I learned it, and who I learned it from. The bit about the tape was taught to me by an audio engineer who used to work for Warner Bros. He would actually go out and hunt for old lots of tape to buy because they literally don't make 'em like they used to (I saw him put a shit load of the company's money where his mouth was so I'm pretty sure he wasn't making it up).

If you decide to get a mac, *try* to get a dual core. The processing power jump from a G5 to a dual core in massive compared to the processor bump from a G3 > G4 > G5.

If you were thinking of buying an older machine when you wrote G5, then just get a G4 and save yourself some hassle. There is a reason Apple shifted to Intel chips after they made the G5.

They run hot, don't have good track records in terms of reliability, and when it comes to audio they don't exactly reinvent the wheel compared to the G4.

Dual core will *seriously* up your track and plug-in effect counts.

Again, best of luck.

exhausted

good advice. i run out of processor power long before i run out of RAM when the real time plug-ins start to pile up.