Phasing problems?

MadHatter

Hey guys and girls!

I'm having some problems getting two overdrive pedals to work together. My setup is American Strat and a Crate VFX5112. Now I like the clean channel of the amp, but not the dirty (very Fender amp-ish). So I thought I would get some pedals to help out with an overdriven sound and lead sounds. (This is mostly for playing with friends in basement/bedroom levels. No gigs or anything.)

Anyways, I use a TS-808 re-issue, with the gain turned low/med, and the amp on it's clean channel for a crunchy rythem, and I like it. Now I have been wanting to get another pedal for a punch for leads. I have played with a Big Muff Pi, and a BOSS DS-1 (or whatever the orange one is). It seems whenever I plug another pedal into the setup (which also includes a Boss DD-6 and an MXR Phase 90, btw) the sound almost cancels out. There is a wierd phasing-like thing going on pedals are competing for sound, and the volume drops, and there's like hissing and what not. Now on one end, turn up the volume and it's a pretty cool Neil Young/Jimi/Black Keys beserker sound that cool. But I just want a more gain solo. This happens with any combo of pedals it seems, but not with one pedal and going to the gain channel of the amp.

So, long story short, haha...Why is this? It seems most people here use there amp's for overdrives, and a pedal for boost. But for the volume I play at, turning up the amp to overdriven volumes won't work for me.

Is there something I'm doing wrong, or don't understand? Would this happen with two of the same pedals? Like to 808's together? Is it wires?

Any help you guys could give would be great thanks. I can also try to describe the problem I'm having better if this doesn't make sense.

(Oh in case anyone's interested, I'm looking for a Neil Young/Jimi/Black Keys type sound. I like the 808 alot, but need something for leads. Want a cool fuzz/dirty sound. Big Muff wasn't really it for me. Going to try a Fulltone 69 or 70 next I think. Anyone play with these in a setup close to this?)

Thanks again,

Brendon

exhausted

that's sort of strange. i've never experienced that problem. i use a fuzz going into a BD-2 and get this wonderful sustain thing that alternates between violin-like and really harsh fuzz but i don't have a volume drop problem. that's really weird.

which order do you have them in? generally folks put the lower gain stages before the higher but i don't really think that would cause this.

Pacomc79

Part of the problem is the amplifier, My solid state fender sounds absolutely awful using any type of gain effect with it at all but my orange sounds fantastic. I use a Barber Direct Drive into a Keeley Rat2 (fuzzy spitty almost 70's silicon fuzz bomb flavor but not quite a superfuzz think late think 70's early 80's Marshall master volume dist but not as rich AC/DC ish) nice lead, but not for everyone. Everyones amp is going to respond differently too. Bring your amp with you when you shop.

The volume drop sounds like a dying battery but if you have them all hooked on adaptors maybe change the placing of the pedals.

I think the crate VFX series has an effects loop run the DD-6 and the Phase 90 in the loop and see if that clears it up, a lot of times modulation effects and overdrive/distortions don't play well especially when they aren't true bypass. The delay or the phase can cause a volume drop.

Try before you buy on the fuzzes. Fuzz is extremely individual and temperamental. Some play well with buffers, some don't, some need true bypass to play nice, some change with the weather.....etc.

Try lots of different models before you buy and different versions of the same if you can. I've heard stories of Eric Johnson going through an entire stock of tubescreamers to find one he liked, same with fuzz faces though he seems to adore Fulltone. I like both those pedals too and they can be ebay'd for less than the new price + you don't have to deal with Mike Fuller which can be a good thing apparently.

Sometimes you'll find a really cool pedal you saw and wanted to try and then you play it and go...how can I justify $200 for this thing?

MadHatter

I've not had any problems with things like the Phase 90 and DD-6 with a drive pedal into the amp. I've also tried two drive pedals without the Phase 90 and DD-6 in the signal chain, with the same phase problems.

I've also tried the amp with no effects on, or at least just having some reverb on. The VFX5112 is a tube, not solid if that helps.

When I tried this last night, I had the Muff first then the 808. That's when it had the garbled/spitting sounds going on. When the 808 was first, then the Muff there was no spitting. It seemed to work better. Same problem, but to a lesser degree.

This same test was done with the DS-1 with similar results.

If this is an amp problem, is there anything that could be done to stop it? What about the amp would cause it?

Pacomc79

ah right the new digital hybrid version of the vintage club series, cool amp. I was thinking of the earlier DFX models

honestly that's a wierd problem and I have no idea how to fix it other than e-mailing an amp tech or trying another board.

http://www.webervst.com has a link to help you find amp techs in your area.

http://www.musictoyz.com

http://www.harmony-central.com

http://www.tonefactor.com

all have bbs's with people that can likely help you.



list your normal setup that is causing problems, start with you're guitar and move through to the amplifier.

does it happen strait in no pedals at all?


Seems like to me this has something to do with the Digital Effects Circuit in the amp, I'd bet that's what's causing the issues.