Need Help With Guitar Scales

airborellaairborella Posts: 3
edited May 2005 in Musicians and Gearheads
I am trying to find the simplest way for guitar scales to be explained to me. I have a couple of books but they dont really explain what to do with scales. The books assume I already know. I assume I play the dots on the scale in any combination I want, and the dots that arent dark are open strings I dont hold down. Can I move scales anywhere on the fretboard or do I only play them like they are in the book. I still havent gotten it to sound right when I play in these scales. I am not a beginner and I have been playing the guitar for about 5 years now. I just now am trying to learn scales. Also do I need to know what all the words mean in the book like octave, sharp, flat, major, minor and stuff like that. I am totally self taught and dont know what any of that is.
Also is there a scale that is most popular and easy to use I should try. I want to do soloing, riffs. blues licks stuff like that. I can do this stuff easy off a tab but I want to be able to do it on my own and I guess guitar scales are the best way. There isnt any free software somewhere that could help me is there?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    I'm thinking, do magazine publishers still make guitar magazines with tutorial CDs? It might be worth having a look. Some websites I've come across have MIDI sound that plays the notes and explains how chords, scales and modes work. And are there any tuition sound files out there on Limewire etc? That might be worth a look too.
  • MissYouAllDayMissYouAllDay Posts: 939
    K to start this might help.

    E string. THis is the note E when played open. Then every fret goes up "half a step". What this means is that ir goes up a half note. SO if you fret the first fret on low E you will be playing the note E sharp. This looks like E# in books. So if you fret E on the second fret (--2-- in tabs) that will be an F note. See so everytime you go up 2 frets you go up a whole note. This will let you figure out what note you are playing when playing any fret on any string. Understand?

    A question you might ask is well If it goes E E# F (0-1-2) then what does flat mean. Well flat means one half note below. SO F flat, and E sharp are the same note. Understand that?

    Let me know.
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  • nailz100nailz100 Posts: 1,176
    Actually the first fret would be an F, not an E#. Here's the easiest way to remember the bass notes when playing bar chords...(b) stands for flat, and (#) stands for sharp.

    Open "E" is "E" (obviously), then 1st fret down goes...F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E. You will notice that the 12th fret is the same note as the open "E" except an octave higher. You will also notice that there is no sharps between E & F and B & C....understand.

    This is also moveable down the strings....so, say start on the open "A" string. 1st fret would be A#, 2nd fret B, then, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A.....again also notice that the 12th fret is the same as the open "A" except an octave higher. This is very handy in finding different locations of bar chords either played on the "E" string or the "A" string....hope this makes sense.
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  • armanHammerarmanHammer Posts: 471
    Yeah I was wondering about MissYouAllDay's post: I know sharps and flats exist for every note, but howcome there are no E or B sharps on the guitar?!
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  • nailz100nailz100 Posts: 1,176
    Honesly, I'm no theory wizard...so I don't have the correct answer for you. All I know is what has worked well for me from experience, and knowing this repeating pattern and where to position it on the neck has worked wonders for me!
    Only with our eyes closed can we truly see
  • WhiteMaleRatWhiteMaleRat Posts: 301
    It sounds like we all should just go to Berkely for 4 years and get a degree.

    I started to learn guitar a year ago and learned through a beginners book with sheet music. It was good to learn basics but there was no way I would learn whole songs and all the chords with sheet music and not get frustrated. I don't get it, it seems archaic to me.

    I've been going all tabs from the internet. It's just so much easier. I'm sure it's technically not correct for music students.
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  • BinFrogBinFrog MA Posts: 7,309
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • nick1977nick1977 Posts: 327
    There is no simple answer. Scales are relatively simple. However, expalining them is quite a task. Generally, all a scale is is all of the notes that "go" with a given chord. For example if you play a C chord, the scale is C D E F G A B C. The chord is made of the root (C), the third, E, and the fifth (G). Any note within the scale will sound "right" or "natural" whan played over a C chord. The key of C has no sharps and flats. All a sharp or flat is a a note lowered or raised half a step. Play a C note, then play a D note...there is one note between the two...it is a C sharp and/or a D flat.

    You need to know what key you are in to play the scales. If in C, you play no sharps and flats. Just play CDEFGAB....any of the notes will do. If you play in the key of G, you have one sharp....an F sharp. Thus, a G scale is as follows: G A B C D E F# D. If you play an F natural over a G chord, it will sound like it does not belong.

    The key of F has one flat...a B flat. Thus, an F scale is F G A Bb C D E F.

    All of this sounds complicated, but once you learn one or two scales, you will notice the patterns on the guitar repeat themselves...the scales are the same, but on different positions on the guitar fretboard. So, once you recognize the repeating patterns, find the root note, and play one of the patterns...you will know by your ear which pattern works.

    That is basic sclales. However, things then get more complicated....there are certain notes you will want to play outside of the scales. I said earlier these notes do not quite "fit" so why play them? They add color, interest, and tension. Play around, and let your ear tells you what sounds good.

    Mel Bay has some good scales books. This sounds like a lot, and it is, but to be a good lead player, you must learn the scales and internalize them. In other words....learn them, then forget them. Program your fingers and brain so you no longer have to think about them.

    Finally, this sounds like a lot....you need a good book. Mel Bay publishes some good ones. Also, learn basic music theory....it will help you tremendously. Finding a teacher will help also.
  • BinFrogBinFrog MA Posts: 7,309
    Also learn how the major scale works with the different chords associate w/ that scale. For instance:

    The Amaj chord is A C# E
    The Amaj scale is A B C# D E F# G# (A)

    See a correlation? "A" is just the 1,3 and 5 notes of the "Amaj" scale. "Am" is just A with a flattened 3rd. Try playing A and Am, and look at the notes you are playing.

    This is copied and pasted from a post I had months ago on this board about playing the major scale:

    ________
    For a good jump start, try learn just one form of the major scale, and figure out different ways of picking it

    for instance a simple form of the a major scale:

    e|
    24(5)
    B|
    235
    G|
    (2)4
    D|
    246
    A|---245
    E|(5)

    Notes in parentheses are root notes. The numbers themselves are frets. Start that A note on the E string using your pinkie. The only stretch you have to do is on the D string when you go up to the 6th fret. Otherwise you use your pointer on the 2nd fret, middle finger on the 3rd, ring on 4th and pinky on 5th fret.

    Once you get that fairly fluid up AND down the strings (think Do-Re-Mi-Fa-So-La-Ti-Do as you do it), work on alternate pickings.

    For instance, take the first run (octave) from A on the E string to A on the G string:

    Instead of playing the notes in order like: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1) (these aren't the frets anymore, just notes of the major scale...your root note is #1, and subsequently also #8)
    Try:
    1 2 3 - 2 3 4 - 3 4 5 - 4 5 6 - 5 6 7 - 6 7 8
    and reverse it.

    or maybe try: 1 3 - 2 4 - 3 5 - 4 6 - 5 7 - 6 8

    Work these patterns up and down the neck. Try it in a different key like B or C. If you get really good at them, try to map out what the notes are and see if you see any patterns. Can you find other fingerings of the major scale? There are tons of them, the one I provided is only one!
    ________


    Hope that helps.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    That's a very fine post there, BinFrog, if you don't mind me saying so.
  • ozarkcoolchicozarkcoolchic Posts: 621
    Yeah I was wondering about MissYouAllDay's post: I know sharps and flats exist for every note, but howcome there are no E or B sharps on the guitar?!
    i think its because b sharp is really c and e sharp is really f....atleast thats the way it is on the piano
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  • airborellaairborella Posts: 3
    Maybe I just really need to get a book. I tried to understand all that you guys were saying but it seems like a different language to me. Im sure its got to be easier than it sounds. Any really good books you guys could recommend for me? One that pretty much starts at the beginning because I really dont know anything technical. It would be cool if there were any books that came with a cd so I could here what I am trying to do. The only books I have now are the hal leanord guitar method books for rock guitar, and blues guitar. But I just use those to learn little riffs from the cd. I also have a mel bay chord book.

    Also I was wondering do all the greats know this stuff? Jimi Hendrix, SRV, Jimmy Page, even Mike Mcready? You have to know this stuff? Has anyone great ever not known this stuff. Im going to learn anyway but im wondering.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    airborella wrote:

    Also I was wondering do all the greats know this stuff? Jimi Hendrix, SRV, Jimmy Page, even Mike Mcready? You have to know this stuff? Has anyone great ever not known this stuff. Im going to learn anyway but im wondering.

    Jimi knew a lot more theory than people gave him credit for, as Miles Davis who jammed with him repeatedly stated. Jimmy Page worked as a session musician playing sheet music and even muzak before breaking out on his own.
  • nick1977nick1977 Posts: 327
    Anyone who has made it big in music (I'm not talking about Britney Spears or this other pop shit) absolutely HAS to know at least some music theory.

    As one great jazz musician put it, "Learn the scales, and then forget them." You have to do your homework to excel. People may act like or say that they don't know all the music theory, but trust me, they know more than they lead you to believe. They may not know have formal training and know the proper terms, but they know them.

    A good musician must know how to play in all keys and know how to play scales over all keys. It is an absolute must.

    I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it. It takes years and years and years to master. I don't think any musician every fully arrives, but only grows closer to the goal.

    Having said that, if you get hung up too much on theory, you lose the "feel" that you need. I read in a book that good music is 99% stuff that can be explained by music theory, and 1% magic. You must know that 99% before you can reach that 1% magic.
  • BinFrogBinFrog MA Posts: 7,309
    airborella wrote:
    Any really good books you guys could recommend for me?


    Try the Karl Aranjo books.

    As far as my post above goes, print it out and see if you can fudge around and make sense of it. I tried to keep it very simple. You have the Amaj chord, and the AMaj scale. The chord is just the 1, 3, 5 notes of the scale played together. Play an A chord and write down the notes you are playing. You will see, if you are playing it right, they are A, C#, and E.

    If you have a loop pedal, throw down a very basic riff w/ just the A chord, and play the Amaj scale over it, using the fingering I described above. Think do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (1). If you get fluid at playing the notes from 1 - 7 in succession, then try picking it differently (which is also described in my post above)
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
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