Speaker wiring
nailz100
Posts: 1,176
How hard do you think it would be to wire up a 2 X 12 cab with one greenback in it and one vintage 30? I figure this way i'll get the best of both worlds. Is the wattage difference in the speakers going to make a huge difference since the Shiva EL34 head is supposed to be 80 watts.. The greenback is rated at 25 watts and I think the vintage 30 is somewhere around 60?...does that mean my total wattage is around 85? Would I blow this kind of cab with that head? Probably get (2) 16 ohm speakers and wire them for an 8 ohm cab.
Oh, and by the way MIG....The F*cker on E-bay won't sell me the empty speaker cab...he says the shipping would cost ME too much...
Oh, and by the way MIG....The F*cker on E-bay won't sell me the empty speaker cab...he says the shipping would cost ME too much...
Only with our eyes closed can we truly see
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easy, it's pretty common actually. you'll be fine on the wattage, the Greenbacks can take a beating and so can the V 30. You'll just need to find out whether you want series or parallel wiring and make sure that the end ohm load is 8.
http://www.mojaveampworks.com/8Gallery/ImageView.asp?UniqueID=631
this is a picture of an H30 with an alnico blue.
I don't really care what Bogner says, I seriously doubt they are getting 80 watts RMS out of 2 EL-34's no matter what high output voltage they are claiming. 60 to 65 is about all I can believe at nominal output. The 80 rating is likely slightly after clip. Most AB push pull EL-34 amps put out around 50 RMS and 99 max. The Bogner is probably around 130 maxed out if they are indeed being truthful You'll be just fine with a greenback and a V30. At 85 watts RMS speaker ratings you are right on line. The greenback would give you a little earlier breakup and the V30 will give you more balls at high output. Great combo.
but you guys do have that bonehead president...nah, I'll just stay here.
http://www.avatarspeakers.com
These guys won't ship to Canada......AArrrrgghhhhh
the blue alnico's are low wattage sweet sounding speakers with very early break up. Very bluesy. not as robust and rock sounding as the greenback.
Essentially most vox AC30's either have greenbacks or they pay the up charge for the alnico's if they like that tone.
They are great speakers, but I think the greenback and vintage 30 suit you better.
Mojave will likely cost you what bogner would.
http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/cgi-bin/mojotone/3000120.html
this is cool too, unfortunately no matter where I look unless you build it yourself around 550 is going to be the best you can do.
what about this on E-bay #3778394040 or #3778192746
I can't vouch for them, I don't know, sorry.
From what I've read, the Avatar cabs are really well-built. The baltic birch construction, with the types of jointing, very nice. The first cab there is more your style... if it's wide enough to put a Bogner on (I think Bogners are fairly narrow). The second one is more of a Fender design... it's more of a cosmetic thing... but the first cab will be easier to hear on stage since it will project more towards your ears.
As far as the two speaker types... go for it. Match the resistance and you'll be fine. Like Paco said, the Greenbacks are meant to be overworked, and can take a beating. You'd want to baby them for the first 10 hours of playing to break them in, but after that... balls to the wall...
The Greenback/V30 combo is a very popular choice.
I might just get them to build a cab for me with the speakers that I chose. Apparently these cabs are pretty light as well.
You're gonna kill me for asking MIG, but out of curiousity, what do you think the major sound differences are between a blue alnico, a vintage 30 and a black shadow? Do you think they're all pretty similar sounding?
The Tone Tools site is under renovation, so I'll look at that when they get it all figured out. Looks okay...
There are a ton of differences between ANY alnico speaker, the Vintage 30, the Greenback, and the Black Shadow.
Alnico magnets typically have more of a "bell-shaped" tone response, meaning more mids. Alnico speakers are really popular for vintage Fender tube amps, because their tonality matches the amp's. They tend to sound warmer, rounder, and smoother... which lends them to creamy, jazzy cleans to warm overdrive.
Ceramic magnets tend to have a flatter response, with an emphasis on low-end and bright, almost biting highs. They are popular for a really present tone, especially for raggae-style cleans and for more overdrive/distortion/fuzz. Greenbacks, as I've said before, exhibit a lot of break-up, which gives a fuzzy tone to distortion when driven hard. Vintage 30's are a bit cleaner, but still have a lot of break-up. The Black Shadows would have to be driven EXTREMELY hard before breaking up, so they are a very beefy, clean speaker, which means that any distortion must be produced by stompboxes, preamp, or power amp. I prefer this kind of speaker for hi-gain, because you get more natural tube drive (especially power tube drive) without the speaker coloring the tone from the amp.
Alnico's exhibit a lot of break-up, but I feel that alnico break-up is less musical than ceramic. It tends to get too mid-heavy, although alnico's have a more woody tone, and that is true of the break-up as well.
Now, any sort of blue alnico is likely a clone of the vintage speakers found in older Hiwatt, Marshall, and Vox amps. Like Paco said, they have a warm, early-break-up tone that works really well for blues, especially dirty Chicago blues. Not really a good speaker for hi-gain applications, but great for a barely-overdriven British tube amp.
Just as a reference, Kurt Cobain used Celestions in all his Marshall cabs on stage, and worked with both Greenbacks and GT12-75's before settling on Vintage 30's. I think Mike is currently using a V30 cab and a Greenback cab, Ed has a V30 cab, and Stone has two V30 cabs. Vintage 30's are a great balance between warmth, break-up, and power ratings. The best thing about the V30 is that it has good, clear articulation when driven hard. By comparison, the Greenbacks tend to get a bit muddy. Both have lots of "chime" and "sparkle" (terms to describe the highs) but the Greenback tends to lose that when it works hard. Good for rhythm playing, horrible for riffs or leads.
Yeah, I still think my ideal situation for a 2 X 12 would be a v30 and a greenback...best of both worlds, I could probably mic both. I'm kinda interested in a vertical cab though, since I think it would let me hear myself a little better on stage. Maybe put the V30 on top and the greenback underneath.