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looking for good 10 channel nonpowered mixer

pjampjam Posts: 102
edited November 2003 in Musicians and Gearheads
My friends and I are looking for a mixer unpowered around 10 channels for a good price. If anyone can recomend one that would be great. We don't know much about them so any info would help.
09/13/98+08/29/00+11/05/00+11/06/00+12/08/02+
12/09/02+06/01/03+06/02/03+06/03/03+06/05/03+
06/06/03+06/07/03+07/02/03+07/03/03+07/08/03+
07/09/03+07/11/03+07/14/03+09/28/04+09/29/04+
10/01/04+10/08/04+10/03/05+05/13/06+05/24/06+
05/25/06+ As many more as possible
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Well. Probably for the money if you want cheap. The Beringers would be fine. However last years Mackies should be on sale now or just look on Ebay, you can't go wrong with Mackie or Beringer really but Mackie is far better quality wise.

    McCreadyisGod should be able to handle this better than me since he is an engineer.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Thanks for the props, Paco...

    Well, without knowing what you need this stuff for, I can't really make a good recommendation. How many mic inputs do you need? Just a couple, or all 10? Most small mixers have a few mic channels and a few stereo-line channels; for instance, a Mackie 1402 14-channel board has 6 mic inputs and 4 channels with stereo inputs. It can be misleading. Like Paco said, Mackie boards are the best for small uses. They generally have the best preamps in their class, and good construction. Soundcraft's Spirit line are pretty good, too. Yamaha, Behringer, and Peavey all make decent small mixers, but their quality isn't anywhere near Mackie or Spirit.

    If you have some cash, I'd recommend this:
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031106223900150131025216379806/g=live/search/detail/base_id/40387

    Great mic preamps, great 4-band EQ with sweepable mids, great routing options (inserts, direct outs, auxiliaries). It has onboard FX, which aren't great but will work, and are as good or better than any other mixer's on-board FX. Can sit table-top or be rack-mounted. And it has 16 channels, so you can expand if you need to. If I was in the market for a small mixer, this would be it.

    If you want something smaller and/or cheaper, let me know what you're using it for and how many mic inputs, and I'll try to make a few recommendations.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    Thanks for the props, Paco...

    Well, without knowing what you need this stuff for, I can't really make a good recommendation. How many mic inputs do you need? Just a couple, or all 10? Most small mixers have a few mic channels and a few stereo-line channels; for instance, a Mackie 1402 14-channel board has 6 mic inputs and 4 channels with stereo inputs. It can be misleading. Like Paco said, Mackie boards are the best for small uses. They generally have the best preamps in their class, and good construction. Soundcraft's Spirit line are pretty good, too. Yamaha, Behringer, and Peavey all make decent small mixers, but their quality isn't anywhere near Mackie or Spirit.

    If you have some cash, I'd recommend this:
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031106223900150131025216379806/g=live/search/detail/base_id/40387

    Great mic preamps, great 4-band EQ with sweepable mids, great routing options (inserts, direct outs, auxiliaries). It has onboard FX, which aren't great but will work, and are as good or better than any other mixer's on-board FX. Can sit table-top or be rack-mounted. And it has 16 channels, so you can expand if you need to. If I was in the market for a small mixer, this would be it.

    If you want something smaller and/or cheaper, let me know what you're using it for and how many mic inputs, and I'll try to make a few recommendations.

    allen and heath. good choice. Why not get the guy to throw in a Joe Meek Compressor and a BBE sonic Maximiser while he's at it. It's only money we can always get more. and Avalon Preamp and a Neuman U87 later and he'll be ready to go :)
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    allen and heath. good choice. Why not get the guy to throw in a Joe Meek Compressor and a BBE sonic Maximiser while he's at it. It's only money we can always get more. and Avalon Preamp and a Neuman U87 later and he'll be ready to go :)

    Hey, like I said, if he has the cash. If I knew his budget and the specific application, I could make some better recommendations.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    Hey, like I said, if he has the cash. If I knew his budget and the specific application, I could make some better recommendations.


    I know. I was just giving you a hard time.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • dannyschmannydannyschmanny Posts: 72
    Originally posted by pjam
    My friends and I are looking for a mixer unpowered around 10 channels for a good price. If anyone can recomend one that would be great. We don't know much about them so any info would help.

    stay away from mackie...their stuff isnt any good.
    i remember you...i was gonna vote for you one time...but voting isn't cool so i stayed home and got trashed on listerine.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by dannyschmanny
    stay away from mackie...their stuff isnt any good.



    What problems have you had with Mackie?
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by dannyschmanny
    stay away from mackie...their stuff isnt any good.

    Their preamps are phenomenal, their EQ is lack-luster. I find the pre's to be worth it. Besides, any decent engineer knows how to use different mics and mic placement to prevent big EQ needs. What say you now?
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    I've never had any eq problems I couldn't fix with the mackies.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    There are certainly better EQ's than the Mackie stuff. Three bands, with only one sweepable band, and fixed que. The high and low shelves are fixed-frequency, fixed-cue, and their gain stage in the EQ aren't the best. Compare to the Allen & Heath, or Soundcraft, and it's just not that great. But like I said, the Mackie has the best-value preamps in the business, and with the correct mics and mic placement, EQ becomes less an issue. Of course, the end argument from me is, Show me a better preamp/EQ combo on a mixer of that size with that price. Ultimately, that's why I recommended the Allen & Heath, they are noticably better, but you pay an additional $200-400 for that quality. I think some people have been sitting in ivory towers with high-quality gear for too long. Down here on Earth, Mackie boards kick ass.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    There are certainly better EQ's than the Mackie stuff. Three bands, with only one sweepable band, and fixed que. The high and low shelves are fixed-frequency, fixed-cue, and their gain stage in the EQ aren't the best. Compare to the Allen & Heath, or Soundcraft, and it's just not that great. But like I said, the Mackie has the best-value preamps in the business, and with the correct mics and mic placement, EQ becomes less an issue. Of course, the end argument from me is, Show me a better preamp/EQ combo on a mixer of that size with that price. Ultimately, that's why I recommended the Allen & Heath, they are noticably better, but you pay an additional $200-400 for that quality. I think some people have been sitting in ivory towers with high-quality gear for too long. Down here on Earth, Mackie boards kick ass.

    Yeah a Neve board would be great too. I hear you. For us commoners Mackie is a fine standard. I really like Allen and Heath but to be perfectly honest most of us can't tell much difference.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    I use two boards for 98% of the live sound I do. An Allen & Heath GL4+, and a Mackie 2404. The Allen & Heath is my baby, a gorgeous board with great pre's, great EQ. The Mackie is definitely a step down in quality. I personally have a thing for British EQ, so the Mackie's EQ section will never measure up for me. But I'm talking serious Pro gear versus semi-pro/consumer gear. Those Mix Wizards are great, like I said, I would buy one if I was in the market. But Mackies train you to get better sounds to begin with, they don't make up for mistakes or bad choices. Neve and Amek and SSL and those guys... whole other world. Of course, that's the difference between dedicated recording consoles and live sound consoles. I would KILL for a Midas XL3 or XL4, a Soundcraft Series 4 or 5, a Yamaha PM4000. Our company recently looked at a Crest and a Midas Heritage... no go, but man, I was drooling over even those.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Is the British EQ warmer as with their tube amps?
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    Is the British EQ warmer as with their tube amps?

    Actually, British EQ is a format. It has Hi and Lo shelving EQ, ideally with adjustable frequency, plus two Mid bands, with adjustable frequency. Four band with adjustable mids. A four-band fully-parametric EQ is best, with Hi and Lo switchable between Band-pass and shelving, and adjustable frequency and que; and a Lo-Mid and Hi-Mid, both with adjustable frequency and que. Plus a continuously-adjustable low cut (hi pass). Now, British PREAMPS, on the other hand... do tend to be warmer. But British EQ is really just a nickname for a four-band with adjustable mids.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • kigcatkigcat Posts: 298
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    I use two boards for 98% of the live sound I do. An Allen & Heath GL4+, and a Mackie 2404. The Allen & Heath is my baby, a gorgeous board with great pre's, great EQ. The Mackie is definitely a step down in quality. I personally have a thing for British EQ, so the Mackie's EQ section will never measure up for me. But I'm talking serious Pro gear versus semi-pro/consumer gear. Those Mix Wizards are great, like I said, I would buy one if I was in the market. But Mackies train you to get better sounds to begin with, they don't make up for mistakes or bad choices. Neve and Amek and SSL and those guys... whole other world. Of course, that's the difference between dedicated recording consoles and live sound consoles. I would KILL for a Midas XL3 or XL4, a Soundcraft Series 4 or 5, a Yamaha PM4000. Our company recently looked at a Crest and a Midas Heritage... no go, but man, I was drooling over even those.

    hey you guys mentioning allen and heath?? haha im one of there chief testers! i specifically test the gl4000s take the base off man and if you see the number 342 in the bottom its been tested by me;) yeah the wizards are kinda cool but i personally dont like em that much but then again i see alot of them and i see the shit that happens to em on a daily basis;) i know the guys after an unpowered mixer but we`ve just released a rather nice kick ass new line in small powered mixers called the CP (constant power) range! KInda like a cross between the wizard series and our smaller gl2000s. dont much about the specs of them at the moment as i aint had much chance to play with them as we are having them assembled in china the shipped back over to our main factory in the uk to be checked over before being sent out to distributors:) On another note if you (the guy with the GL4) ever have any problem with midi clock noise on the channels give me a pm or something and i`ll tell you what to do. Its not something that is likely to crop up but it is something that weve noticed at the factory over the last 2 years. Also what size have you got? 24, 32,40,48? with or without metrepod? also crazy to read about people using our gear on this board:) maybe you`d also like to know that a gl4 is the main foh desk in the sydney opera house;)
    I'm not saying stupidity should be a capital offence, but what say we take the safety labels off everything and let nature run it's course?
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    Actually, British EQ is a format. It has Hi and Lo shelving EQ, ideally with adjustable frequency, plus two Mid bands, with adjustable frequency. Four band with adjustable mids. A four-band fully-parametric EQ is best, with Hi and Lo switchable between Band-pass and shelving, and adjustable frequency and que; and a Lo-Mid and Hi-Mid, both with adjustable frequency and que. Plus a continuously-adjustable low cut (hi pass). Now, British PREAMPS, on the other hand... do tend to be warmer. But British EQ is really just a nickname for a four-band with adjustable mids.


    Ah, excellent thank you and for KigCat you guys make excellent stuff, I hope to one day afford one. Currently I'm looking for a 16 channel non powered mixer for a church but I don't really have much of a budget currently
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by kigcat
    On another note if you (the guy with the GL4) ever have any problem with midi clock noise on the channels give me a pm or something and i`ll tell you what to do. Its not something that is likely to crop up but it is something that weve noticed at the factory over the last 2 years. Also what size have you got? 24, 32,40,48? with or without metrepod? also crazy to read about people using our gear on this board:) maybe you`d also like to know that a gl4 is the main foh desk in the sydney opera house;)

    It's cool to meet someone who helps build my baby...

    We've got a 32x8x2, a nice arrangement for what we do. We've been shopping for a 48+4, and have looked at the ML5000. We want 48 mono channels, 4 stereo channels, and VCA controls. Something under $40,000 US with a road case and dummy PSU. We never use MIDI or automation, but do have some use for mute groups. I find the mute groups on the GL4 to be more trouble than they're worth, I'd rather have something simple like the Series 5 Soundcraft configuration. I'm not sure what you mean by "metrepod"... I just turn the knobs...

    Anyways, cool to meet you.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • kigcatkigcat Posts: 298
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    It's cool to meet someone who helps build my baby...

    We've got a 32x8x2, a nice arrangement for what we do. We've been shopping for a 48+4, and have looked at the ML5000. We want 48 mono channels, 4 stereo channels, and VCA controls. Something under $40,000 US with a road case and dummy PSU. We never use MIDI or automation, but do have some use for mute groups. I find the mute groups on the GL4 to be more trouble than they're worth, I'd rather have something simple like the Series 5 Soundcraft configuration. I'm not sure what you mean by "metrepod"... I just turn the knobs...

    Anyways, cool to meet you.

    what i meant is that when we orginally released the gl4000 the VU metrepod was an optional extra at no extra cost that bolted on to the rear extrusion giving 10 vu metres and an extra vu for the mono wedge/pafl signal line. just wondering if yours was an early model or one of the later ones where it was built in straight off. how can you say the mute groups are more trouble than they are worth? haha you can program them in under 5 seconds flat! (then again i do play with them everyday)
    I'm not saying stupidity should be a capital offence, but what say we take the safety labels off everything and let nature run it's course?
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Well, I've never figured out the mute groups. Maybe I need to spend some time with the owner's manual. But on a Series 5, you just press a mute assign on the channels... it's pretty intuitive.

    The VU Bridge is a bolt-on... it's from around 1990. The biggest complaint I have is the summing amps in the subgroups... the left channel always pumps like 3 dB more than the right. So I've been mixing straight to the main bus, and using the aux return switch, where you can use the group faders for aux returns. It's great, with no dedicated stereo line-ins, it gives me a great place for FX and playback.

    What's the in-house opinion of the ML5000? How are the VCA's? Pre's? EQ? I'm really interested in that board... we're looking at that and the Crest X-VCA.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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