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Question about Fender Tube amps
JSP552003
Posts: 222
I've been looking at the Fende Hot Rod Deville 4 10 amp and it says that it is an all tube preamp and power amp with solid state rectifier. Could someone please explain what this means? I have pretty much no clue when it comes to tube amps. I'm guessing it means that it uses solid state for the overdrive but I could be wrong.
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this should help.
A solid state rectifier will give very fast rise time and response as the voltages are produced very quickly. A vacuum tube rectifier will yield more to the player?s touch dynamics, sound warmer and less harsh by some folks feelings, and give the compression and sustain in a much different way than its solid state brother.
solid state recto = cheap and reliable
tube Recto= 5U4 (Fender) GZ34 (Orange, Marshall, Vox)
More bounce, slightly more compression, more expensive but also more delicate.
THD makes a reactive rectifier that fits in tube rec slots so you can tour with your favorite old tube amps and not have to worry about the rectifier tube which is the most fragile.
As far as the DeVille, it means you have tubes everywhere except the rectifier stage. Since distortion happens mostly in the preamp in two-channel amps, you're fine (all-tube preamp). And the tube saturation sound comes from the power tubes being driven hard (at 60 watts and 4-10" speakers, you probably won't want to get up that high). But it's a great amp, I love it. When you decide that the distortion on the amp sucks (it's a one-trick pony), come back and we'll figure out what stompbox will work best for you. I can vouch for the tubescreamers... they sound awesome in a DeVille. One of the best sounds I ever recorded was a hollowbody Ibanez 335 knock-off into an Ibanez TS-9 tubescreamer (stock) and a Fender Blues DeVille. A Boss DS-1 is probably the best one to start with, it sounds good and it's damned cheap.
Also, don't listen to this weirdo saying they're easier for touring...they're the best amplifiers that $800 can buy!
To any god or government.
mig's talking about solid state rectifiers vs. tube rectos. not fully solid state amps. no one's trying to say buy a solid state amp.
oh, and deluxe reverb re-issues are the best $800US can buy. from fender at least.
Your amp has a solid-state rectifier, just like the amps I was describing above. Like exhausted said...
My first amp was a solid-state Fender (not a tube in the entire thing) and it sucked... I've always had a thing against solid-state Fender amps...
You gotta read the post, man... go callin' me a weirdo for no good reason. Shit...
To any god or government.
To quote the site that Paco posted...
"The rectifier basically converts the AC line current coming into your amplifier to the DC voltages that are needed."
The overdrive in the DeVille is tube driven, because (as I said earlier) overdrive in a guitar amp comes mostly from the preamp, and the DeVille has an all-tube preamp. The only place the DeVille amp (and almost any other new tube amp) doesn't have a tube is in the rectifier stage, which really doesn't much affect tone at all (it does, a little bit, but we tone-heads might be a bit excessive in saying the difference is big enough to worry about).
Now, I would probably assume that the DeVille (as any multi-channel tube amp) has a diode-clipper distortion stage in the overdrive, which is a solid-state device used to supplement tube overdrive, and get the overdriven sound at lower volume levels. But if you turn the gain up enough (which drives the preamp harder) you'll get more tube overdrive. The FX loop is almost definitely solid-state (working with loop FX, solid-state fidelity is better) but the signal is still routed through the tube gain and power stages.
The reason that the clean channel is better (in most opinions) with a stomp-box distortion or overdrive, is because there is no diode-clipper or other solid-state gain device in the clean channel... that's the reason most people say the DeVille distortion isn't that great, and a stomp-box is better. I would agree (although a diode-clipper is essentially the same curcuit as a cheap stomp-box, hard-wired into the amp). If you want true tube overdrive or distortion, there's only one way to get it: get an old all-tube single-channel amp (Fender Deluxe Reverb, Twin Reverb, Bassman, Champ, Vibro-Champ, etc.... Marshall JTM45, Blues Breaker, Plexi, JCM800, etc... Orange, whatever) and crank it until it overdrives/distorts.
You can get this using a power attenuator, too, and not blow your eardrums or speakers... which I (and some of our friends here) would highly recommend. That gives you the extra advantage of power tube saturation, which acts essentially the same as a compresser/enhancer (Comp/Sonic Maximizer combo) would. It fattens up the tone, gives better sustain, sounds fuller. You have to drive the tubes at like 70% or more of their capacity to really hear this effect, so attenuation is VERY handy here.
It is very confusing... the tube amps today are nice, and much better than the basic solid-state alternative, but they definitely are much different creatures than the vintage (pre-solid state) amps that are so revered... tube rectifiers, single channel, no diode-clipper, and saturated, unadulterated tube tone.
this is a picture of a diode-clipper in my overdrive for symetric clipping or vintage compression.
http://www.barberelectronics.com/compression.htm
It depends on you man. I say yes. With a good overdrive or distortion pedal the 59 bassman will do about anything but then so will the deville. It's apples and oranges. I like the bassman because it's a simpler circuit and I believe it uses the 5AR4 Tube rectifier so its slightly more compressed (see above website) which is the tone I like but to say one is better I really can't. That's up to you.
Big note: the '59 Bassman has NO reverb. It's also a single-channel amp (no on-board distortion channel). But with a good stomp-box, like a Tubescreamer or Blues Driver, you can get such great overdrive. Referencing my earlier post, the Bassman has no solid-state features in it's signal path. The reissues have solid-state rectifiers, but can be replaced with a 5AR4 or a 5U4GB tube rectifier (based on preference). Other than that, it's just a simple, straight-forward all-tube amp. 45 watts, 4-10" Jensen AlNiCo speakers (SO GOOD!) and no frills. They are essentially the most famous guitar amp among the tone freaks...
The only Bassman version that is available new is the reissued '59 combo, but the old vintage Bassman heads are still easily found and VERY nice (if in good working order). The blonde amps (1960-1963) are WAY overpriced, but are nice. The Blackface versions (1964-1967) are still pretty reasonable, but are still like $300-400 a pop. After 1967 is the silver-face era. The desirable ones are the 1968-70 Bassman and Bassman 50 amps that don't have a presence control. The Bassman 50 w/presence, Bassman 60, Bassman 70, and Bassman 100 are all great amps, but are not the original curcuit design. They can be found at fairly reasonable prices. And beware the new Fender bass amps of the same name! They sound like shit for a bass, I have no idea how they sound on guitar...
The Bassman amp was so popular, that Jim Marshall's first design was just a bad copy of the '59 Bassman amp but with the British power tube (EL34). So a JTM 45 and a Blues Breaker are just British Bassman amps...
So, Paco, coming back around to the American amps?
I love American amps.
Yeah and Marshall (cheap bastards) If you want a plexi Go with Matamp or Orange baby or Hiwatt marshalls built well. Just ask Pete Townsend.
Reverb. Um. Yeah. Still looking at a used Little Lanilei real spring for $125 or a ri Fender Verb unit used perhaps. If I keep the Orange anyhow. Latest brainstorm is trading it for a Rivera Chubster 40 but I doubt it. I'm still lusting after a middle 60's fender blackface Vibrolux or Super Reverb. This is pathetic I am a bedroom guitarist untill I find a band.
Perhaps I will trade the Orange and the Les Paul For a 333.
I'm getting a delay soon and a vibe and come April I will have a new strat. It will be mine o yes.
Can't fuck with bassman's though. The 10"s are so tight and crisp yet still crunchy.
Turnabout is fair play, though... the Sovteks I keep lusting over were just Sovtek's copy of the JTM45 curcuit, with some differences in the power section.
Plexis are good amps... from Marshall, I like the JTM45, the JTM50 (plexi) and Plexi PA heads, the Blues Breakers, and the 2205 (brown sound). Hiwatts are nice, but they tend to be too clean for me... you can drive the piss out of a 50-watt head and still just get edgy bite... like Ed's setup... their 100-watt stadium heads (and 200-watt slaves) are unbelievable... frightening, almost. Right, Pete? Pete? Can you hear me now, Pete?
Don't be tellin' Yngwie why 10" speakers rock...
Oh I like Marshalls. I love marshalls. But they do skimp on build quality so they can edge more profit out while keeping costs down. Kind of like Ford or GM. Fender and Marshall both do this. See post CBS buyout Fender Amps as a good example or more recently they Dyna touch series they are however wonderful paperweights.
Sovtek's rock. Yet another good reason to call you MIG. Cheap, good JTM 45 copies and they are built like russian machinery. Dra it throught the mud and it still fires up perfect every time.
The early Marshalls aren't bad, and even the 2205 is pretty reliable (maybe not Van Halen reliable, but for the rest of the world...) But I agree that Marshall and Fender are both cutting a lot of corners these days. And don't get me started on American cars...
I love the Sovtek reputation, and the MIG connection is pretty cool... I also look forward to having that big, ugly Russian military-spec amp sitting behind me on stage... should get a Russian flag to fly over my speaker stack... they are reputed to have some self-noise, but I can live with that for a live amp. I've got the world's greatest amp for the bedroom and the studio... "Nothing beats a..."
But yes, you'll have plenty of power for a 2 x 12" cabinet. Stone currently drives a 120-watt Marshall 4x12" cabinet with his 30-watt Trentino amp.