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Improvising

outontheporchoutontheporch Posts: 172
edited May 2008 in Musicians and Gearheads
Hey guys,

Anyone know a good place to go to learn how to improve improvisation techniques? I'm a beginner when it comes to lead/improv/solo stuff...I know my pentatonic scale but that's about it. I can get down and jam sort of when I'm with some guys and we're rockin the blues chords, but I don't know what I need to focus on. More scales? Licks? How do I tie everything together? I can't seem to play for awhile without sounding totally redundant, and I don't know how to develop the skills to do the really bluesy licks and solos.

Anyways any advice would be appreciated!
"I forgot the F***ing song."
- Eddie Vedder, San Francisco 7-16-06, after botching Sometimes, the night's opener

http://people.ucsc.edu/~mquery/pics/pujolsFTW.JPG
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • BinFrogBinFrog Posts: 7,309
    Take lessons.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • SpameisterSpameister Posts: 6
    "Take lessons."

    +1

    and practice, playing along to your favorite songs. It all happens pretty slowly.
  • Jam10Jam10 Posts: 654
    Definitely take lessons and learn solos from your favourite guitar players and try to understand what they are playing.
  • Drew263Drew263 Posts: 602
    outontheporch wrote:
    Hey guys,

    Anyone know a good place to go to learn how to improve improvisation techniques? I'm a beginner when it comes to lead/improv/solo stuff...I know my pentatonic scale but that's about it. I can get down and jam sort of when I'm with some guys and we're rockin the blues chords, but I don't know what I need to focus on. More scales? Licks? How do I tie everything together? I can't seem to play for awhile without sounding totally redundant, and I don't know how to develop the skills to do the really bluesy licks and solos.

    Anyways any advice would be appreciated!

    I agree..take lessons from a good instructor. That is important. Check out their background and where they studied.

    And I would say, keep it simple. Work on voicing chords or triads and slowly venture out from there. You'll be surprised at where that alone will take you.
  • xtremehardy388xtremehardy388 Posts: 2,759
    OR, instead of lessons, practice like hell and learn scales and chords. That'll help. Lessons are good, too...if you can take them...
    Grand Rapids '04, Detroit '06
    JEFF HARDY AND JEFF AMENT USED TO LOOK THE SAME
    "Pearl Jam always eases my mind and fires me up at the same time.”-Jeff Hardy
  • outontheporchoutontheporch Posts: 172
    xtremehardy388 wrote:
    OR, instead of lessons, practice like hell and learn scales and chords. That'll help. Lessons are good, too...if you can take them...

    Yea, it sucks I don't know if I have the time for lessons...I would really like to though. I'm pretty happy with how far I've gotten with just me and my PJ cds, but I've hit a wall that I haven't been able to get over alone for the past couple years, and I really want to nail this. I know it sounds cheesy, but when I can feel and hear in my head what I want to play, and it's frustrating not being able to carry it over to my guitar!

    So, I've been trying to read up on scales, and watching videos online, and I have a tiny tiny tiny bit of experience with music theory through singing in choirs. If it really is not going to be possible to learn this on my own, I'll give in and get some lessons. But I've been trying harder in the past few weeks than I have for a long time, so I will push a little more until it becomes clear to me what needs to be done.
    "I forgot the F***ing song."
    - Eddie Vedder, San Francisco 7-16-06, after botching Sometimes, the night's opener

    http://people.ucsc.edu/~mquery/pics/pujolsFTW.JPG
  • SnakeSnake Posts: 2,605
    Honestly, one thing that really helps is just to mess around with your guitar. Dont play any songs in particular, just play notes. Eventually youll be able to feel it right, youll learn whats sound comes from where.

    Do that, learn scales, learn solos and other song parts, even the bass lines are good, and youll be playing in no time. No way to tell if youll be playing well in no time... But youll be playing...
    Pirates had democracy too.

    "Its a secret to everybody."
  • ianvomsaalianvomsaal Posts: 1,224
    Here you go, I created this guide for my students: click: SCALES & MODES.
    Basic Scales have 7-notes in them, thus I give 7 modes, one for each note in the scale.
    If you learn these Modes and Scales well enough you'll be able to take fragments from
    each and combine them together to make some nice melodic lines.

    Most improve is just basically being able to play what you hear in your head. You should
    be able to sing your solo, so learning your basic scales & modes is always a really good
    place to start for getting these sounds in your head and in your hands). Please feel free
    to ask if you have any questions - Jam10 can attest as he's asked me a bunch - Enjoy.
    Cheers . . .

    - Ian
    ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
    <b><font color="red">CONTACT ME HERE</font>: www.myspace.com/ianvomsaal</b>
    ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
  • DjangoDjango Posts: 152
    When you watch some players improvise you can kind of think, wow they're playing all over the neck & everything they do sounds great. Basically they know where all the notes are.

    You know the pentatonic scale. Start with that. Begin with the A minor pentatonic scale.

    The 5 notes are A C D E G

    Now get a sheet of paper & draw out a diagram of the fretboard. Then mark with dots where all A C D E G notes are. You'll start to see patterns emerge, these are the modes of the pentatonic scale. The same 5 notes in different sequences & positions on the neck. Get your guitar and learn them. Look at the sheet and play the notes. See how the patterns join together. The longer you spend doing this, the better. It'll become second nature.

    Then record a backing track a few minutes long in that key, and play over it, again & again using these notes. Try loads of different approaches using the same notes.

    You can then start to add in other notes. Like say the flat 5 or the minor third.

    So the A minor pentatonic scale would then become the "blues scale". Basically the pentatonic scale with an added flat 5. The fifth note in the A minor pentatonic scale being E, so the flat fifth is Eb (E flat)

    So its now A C D E Eb G

    Add it to the fretboard diagram. Maybe in a different colour, and start adding it in on the jams over the backing track.

    Then add the minor third. D being the third note, so it's Db.

    So now it becomes A C D Db E Eb G

    And just play and play. Burn these shapes and intervals into you memory.

    Then try the same thing in a different key. The guitar is a very transpose friendly instrument. You'll start to see the same shapes again, just moved around the fretboard.

    I'm not a big theory type but this is a good way to start at improvising and it will work.

    Or you could just go for lessons.............. :0)
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    get into Jazz.... get your hands REALLY strong, and get away from anything that feels or sounds normal.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • xtremehardy388xtremehardy388 Posts: 2,759
    http://www.cyberfret.com


    That thought me SO much
    Grand Rapids '04, Detroit '06
    JEFF HARDY AND JEFF AMENT USED TO LOOK THE SAME
    "Pearl Jam always eases my mind and fires me up at the same time.”-Jeff Hardy
  • outontheporchoutontheporch Posts: 172
    Django wrote:
    When you watch some players improvise you can kind of think, wow they're playing all over the neck & everything they do sounds great. Basically they know where all the notes are.

    You know the pentatonic scale. Start with that. Begin with the A minor pentatonic scale.

    The 5 notes are A C D E G

    Now get a sheet of paper & draw out a diagram of the fretboard. Then mark with dots where all A C D E G notes are. You'll start to see patterns emerge, these are the modes of the pentatonic scale. The same 5 notes in different sequences & positions on the neck. Get your guitar and learn them. Look at the sheet and play the notes. See how the patterns join together. The longer you spend doing this, the better. It'll become second nature.

    Then record a backing track a few minutes long in that key, and play over it, again & again using these notes. Try loads of different approaches using the same notes.

    You can then start to add in other notes. Like say the flat 5 or the minor third.

    So the A minor pentatonic scale would then become the "blues scale". Basically the pentatonic scale with an added flat 5. The fifth note in the A minor pentatonic scale being E, so the flat fifth is Eb (E flat)

    So its now A C D E Eb G

    Add it to the fretboard diagram. Maybe in a different colour, and start adding it in on the jams over the backing track.

    Then add the minor third. D being the third note, so it's Db.

    So now it becomes A C D Db E Eb G

    And just play and play. Burn these shapes and intervals into you memory.

    Then try the same thing in a different key. The guitar is a very transpose friendly instrument. You'll start to see the same shapes again, just moved around the fretboard.

    I'm not a big theory type but this is a good way to start at improvising and it will work.

    Or you could just go for lessons.............. :0)

    wow!!! That makes so much sense. Thanks I am going to try this right when I get home. I mean the pattern of the pentatonic scale between the 5th and 7th frets (for A) are burnt into my memory, but I don't know where else to go on the board. So this will help a lot I think.

    Once you know the scales well, is it just a matter of figuring out licks and stringing them together?

    Also I love jazz...would love to be able to translate some of those sounds onto the guitar!
    "I forgot the F***ing song."
    - Eddie Vedder, San Francisco 7-16-06, after botching Sometimes, the night's opener

    http://people.ucsc.edu/~mquery/pics/pujolsFTW.JPG
  • Jam10Jam10 Posts: 654
    Yeh Ian is great. He has helped me out a tonne. He is always willing to help and answer any questions and he is very, very knowledgable.
  • lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    Develop a vocabulary of licks and tricks by learning lots of songs. It won't be long before you start to notice some patterns which are favoured by a lot of players, which you can start to hijack, I mean adapt etc etc.
    Music is not a competetion.
  • xtremehardy388xtremehardy388 Posts: 2,759
    Jam10 wrote:
    Yeh Ian is great. He has helped me out a tonne. He is always willing to help and answer any questions and he is very, very knowledgable.
    +1!!! He answers questions fully! So do quite a few people on this board too :)
    Grand Rapids '04, Detroit '06
    JEFF HARDY AND JEFF AMENT USED TO LOOK THE SAME
    "Pearl Jam always eases my mind and fires me up at the same time.”-Jeff Hardy
  • DjangoDjango Posts: 152
    As far a building up licks...there's loads of instructional stuff out there, sites, dvd's magazines ect... the best of the magazines I think is a british mag called Guitar Techniques http://www.guitar-techniques.com/ Its much more lesson based than any of the other magazines. Comes with a CD aswell. I have some of them from 10, 12 years ago and you can open them up and learn something new. Highly recommended.
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