I think my neck is warped, help!

outontheporch

Hi, so, last night i restrung my guitar, but now there is a crazy ring when i strum. I think the neck, or headstock, or whatever is bent/warped back cause when I bent it foward the buzzing stops. Anyone have any tips? I'm so bummed, got home last night ready to mess around with the rp250 i just bought

westsidepie

Did you use a different gauge of strings? From what you are describing it sounds like you went to a lighter gauge of string? It sounds like you may need a truss rod adjustment, and how you adjust it depends on the type of guitar you have. If you look straight down the line of the neck from the bridge, the headstock should lean or bow a little bit towards the pickups. With a little bow in the neck, the string do not buzz. If the headstock is bent backwards leaning towards the back of the guitar, you probably have to much back bow, which makes the strings. buzz. Turning the truss rod nut clockwise tightens and pulls back the neck, and counterclockwise loosens and gives you more bow. You sound like you need more bow. A word of caution, we are talking about tightening and loosening only about a 1/4 turn. Tighten or loosen it too much and you could damage the neck. If you are not comfortable making the adjustment, take it to a shop.

ianvomsaal

A way to help prevent this is to change your strings "one at a time" (don't take them all off at once).

Snake

ianvomsaal wrote:

A way to help prevent this is to change your strings "one at a time" (don't take them all off at once).

I 2nd that. You need to keep tension on the neck.

All Those Yesterdays

Need to take a few steps back to actually determine if the neck is truely warped.

It just might need a set up with a good truss rod adjustment. It is that time of year where in most area's of the states, the humidity rises up greatly.

I'd recommend you swing by a local guitar store and have a professional take a look.

who's_pearljam?

Sounds easy! Even if you stay with the same gauge string, sometimes one brand is wrapped tighter with the wound strings and puts a bit more or less tension on the neck.
Probably just need to loosen the truss rod a bit, like Westsidepie said.
All my life I've never changed strings one at a time unless it's just minutes before a gig.
When you release the tension on the neck, it bends backwards, but when you restring it bends back. Honest, it does!
I'm not a fan of clipping all the strings at once and taking them off, as that can shock the neck,,,,,,,,, maybe. I usually loosen them one by one to slowly release the tension.
I like to wipe down the fretboard and give the frets a buff up with 4-0 steel wool, too, and that's hard to do when you replace one at a time.

The quick and dirty way to do adjust your truss rod is to put a capo on the first fret, hold the guitar in playing position, and you can fret the 17th or 19th fret and you should be able to slip a thin business card, or two sheets of printer paper between the string and the 12th fret with a little resistance. Only loosen it by 1/8th to 1/4 turn at a time and if the nut seems jammed,,,, don't turn it!
After you have your relief set, then sometimes the bridge saddles need tweaking too. All adjustable stuff to your liking. Just like slipping yourself into the drivers seat on a car, everyone has their own preference.

If you're not comfortable with the above then have a tech set it up.
I've always been a supporter of a guitar player learning to adjust the truss rod, adjust the bridge saddle height, intonation and tremolo springs if you have one. It's not that hard and it frees you up to experiment to find exactly what you want in your strings without schlepping that thing to a tech every time you want to make an adjustment.

Good luck!

outontheporch

You guys are amazing, thank you! I will venture forth to figure this mess out. I'm a bit nervous but I don't want to have to be taking it to the shop every time something like this happens, and I figure I've got to learn sometime. I'm maybe intermediate level playing, but when it comes to maintenence, gear, effects, recording, etc...i'm very much a beginner. I hope to make this forum a new home!

But yea to respond, I was using 10's and I had no buzz. I took them off (one by one but very fast; I don't know if you were recommending to take one off, then restring one? Like take off the low E then put on the new low E? If so I did not do that). I switched to 9's because I thought it may have made a difference, but it did not.

Just to clarify, I want to turn the truss rod nut counterclockwise (lefty loosy!) to get more bow, yes? That seems to make sense, actually. Because if the headstock were leaning up more (not towards the back) the strings would be raised higher on the lower frets. Am I thinking about this right?



I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again!

oh PS: I am using an epiphone G-400 (The one that looks like an SG...cost about $300, in my price range, I probably won't get a really nice one until I feel more confident in my knowledge/skill level

who's_pearljam?

Nice! You got it. If you went to 9's then that's your issue.
The truss rod is providing the support for the neck against the pull of the strings so, now that you have less pull on the neck, lefty loosey it is to bing the neck forward again.!

The backbow didn't happen because you took all the strings off. It WILL backbow temporarily without the strings, but it just didn't come all the way back to where it was before because there's less frontward pull with the 9's.

It should be a Federal Law that anyone who owns a guitar should be issued this book:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Guitar,_electric/Guitar_Player_Repair_Guide.html

outontheporch

hey guys quick update


So I took the plate off to tget to the truss rod and boom! I got confused because I needed an alen (sp?) wrench, and It's positioned in such a way that now I'm confused which is lefty loosy! I looked at it so I was looking down the fretboard towards the bridge, and i turned it to the right (left from the other angle?) and it tightened it which I think is supposed to bring it forward. Did that make sense?

Anyways I turned about 1/4 turn, and it didn't seem to do much...do you reccomend another 1/4 turn? Or just wait to take it into a shop? I really don't want to do any permanent damage

All Those Yesterdays

outontheporch wrote:

hey guys quick update


So I took the plate off to tget to the truss rod and boom! I got confused because I needed an alen (sp?) wrench, and It's positioned in such a way that now I'm confused which is lefty loosy! I looked at it so I was looking down the fretboard towards the bridge, and i turned it to the right (left from the other angle?) and it tightened it which I think is supposed to bring it forward. Did that make sense?

Anyways I turned about 1/4 turn, and it didn't seem to do much...do you reccomend another 1/4 turn? Or just wait to take it into a shop? I really don't want to do any permanent damage

Let it sit. Even after the initial adjustment it will take some time to get to where it's going. Give it the night and take a look.

westsidepie

who's_pearljam? wrote:

Nice! You got it. If you went to 9's then that's your issue.
The truss rod is providing the support for the neck against the pull of the strings so, now that you have less pull on the neck, lefty loosey it is to bing the neck forward again.!

The backbow didn't happen because you took all the strings off. It WILL backbow temporarily without the strings, but it just didn't come all the way back to where it was before because there's less frontward pull with the 9's.

It should be a Federal Law that anyone who owns a guitar should be issued this book:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Guitar,_electric/Guitar_Player_Repair_Guide.html

As I wrote and who's Pearljam said as well, the issue is the lighter strings that create less tension on the neck. I also agree, it does not matter whether you take all the strings off or do them one at a time. If you take them all off, as who's Pearljam said, the neck will temporarily bow, but as soon as you put the new strings on it will return to the same position, if you are using the same gauge strings. I also remove all the strings to oil the fretboard and polish the frets. Polishing the frets makes string bends easy. The only time I change strings one at a time is with guitars that have a Floyd Rose bridge, and I am being lazy. The string tension keeps the bridge at the correct height. Even here, however, it is easy to correct this problem by inserting a small piece of wood between the bridge and body to keep the bridge at the correct height when removing all the string. Good luck.

outontheporch

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

Let it sit. Even after the initial adjustment it will take some time to get to where it's going. Give it the night and take a look.

Cool, yea I let it sit overnight and now it seems a little better, but not 100%. Now the lower 4 strings (E A D G) don't buzz too much...only a little buzz on the low E. The B and high E are still messed up though. Do you guys reccomend another 1/4 turn? I don't want to mess it up so if worse comes to worse I can take it in to a local shop tomorrow.

Also, wouldn't raising the bridge just make the strings farther off on the higher frets but not really do much for the lower frets?

westsidepie

outontheporch wrote:

Cool, yea I let it sit overnight and now it seems a little better, but not 100%. Now the lower 4 strings (E A D G) don't buzz too much...only a little buzz on the low E. The B and high E are still messed up though. Do you guys reccomend another 1/4 turn? I don't want to mess it up so if worse comes to worse I can take it in to a local shop tomorrow.

Also, wouldn't raising the bridge just make the strings farther off on the higher frets but not really do much for the lower frets?

Another 1/4 turn should not hurt it. Where you can really get into trouble is tightening the truss rod. You are loosening it, so you really can't into too much trouble. Also, check the height of the strings at the 12 fret. You may need to raise the bridge a little. A good place to start for the action is 3/32 on the low E side and 2/32 on the high E.

outontheporch

westsidepie wrote:

Another 1/4 turn should not hurt it. Where you can really get into trouble is tightening the truss rod. You are loosening it, so you really can't into too much trouble. Also, check the height of the strings at the 12 fret. You may need to raise the bridge a little. A good place to start for the action is 3/32 on the low E side and 2/32 on the high E.

So I'm confused a little...wouldn't tightening the truss rod bring the headstock forward? Like, if it were laying down, it would bend it up away from the ground? And isn't that what I want, because I want more space between the strings and the lower frets? Wouldn't loosening it bend it back towards the ground? Or am I backwards in my thinking?

Pacomc79

take it to a chiropractor.... just don't waste money on the x rays.

westsidepie

outontheporch wrote:

So I'm confused a little...wouldn't tightening the truss rod bring the headstock forward? Like, if it were laying down, it would bend it up away from the ground? And isn't that what I want, because I want more space between the strings and the lower frets? Wouldn't loosening it bend it back towards the ground? Or am I backwards in my thinking?

Here is a quote out of a guitar tech manual:

"Adjusting a truss rod couldn't be simpler. Clockwise tightens and pulls back = less bow. Counterclockwise loosens = more bow. "if there's no relief, the neck is pulled back (back-bow), and you're probably getting a buzz on the first few frets. Loosen the rod. If there's a lot of relief, try tightening the rod a little."

Essentially, tightening the rod makes the rod straighten out, which in turn makes the neck pull back. If you have the guitar in playing position, this means the headstock of the neck moves towards you taking the relief out of the neck. Loosening the rod produces more bow moving the headstock of the neck away from you. If you PM me with an email address, I will scan the page and send it to you.

outontheporch

westsidepie wrote:

Here is a quote out of a guitar tech manual:

"Adjusting a truss rod couldn't be simpler. Clockwise tightens and pulls back = less bow. Counterclockwise loosens = more bow. "if there's no relief, the neck is pulled back (back-bow), and you're probably getting a buzz on the first few frets. Loosen the rod. If there's a lot of relief, try tightening the rod a little."

Essentially, tightening the rod makes the rod straighten out, which in turn makes the neck pull back. If you have the guitar in playing position, this means the headstock of the neck moves towards you taking the relief out of the neck. Loosening the rod produces more bow moving the headstock of the neck away from you. If you PM me with an email address, I will scan the page and send it to you.

Wow thanks that really clarifies it. I was going the wrong way My logic was backwards, I thought tightening it would give it more bow, but I can see how that is not correct. I will go home tonight and loosen it 1/2 turn (1/4 to undo what I did before, and another 1/4 to make the correct adjustment).

I also PM'd you my email address.

Thanks again for the help everyone, I didn't expect this much help so quick! I'm usually in the Porch or Given to Fly...didn't know there was life in here!

Snake

outontheporch wrote:

So I'm confused a little...wouldn't tightening the truss rod bring the headstock forward? Like, if it were laying down, it would bend it up away from the ground? And isn't that what I want, because I want more space between the strings and the lower frets? Wouldn't loosening it bend it back towards the ground? Or am I backwards in my thinking?

If you loosen the truss rod, it allows the tension of the strings to pull the neck forward more. The tighter the truss rod the less the neck bends with the tension of the strings.

lucylespian

STOP PRESS !!!

Before you mess to much with the truss rod, have a think about the bridge.
The only time I have ever taken all the strings off my Vipr, which has a similar stoptail bridge, I unwittingly turned the brudge height adjusters and when I replaced the strings, it sounded just like you are describing.

If your truss rod needs adjusting, it will be to loosen it,not tighten it anyway.

I bet you have changed the bridge height !!!!!!

outontheporch

Great news guys!
I loosened the truss rod about 1/2 a turn, and boom! no more buzzing. I wonder if I loosened it too much though cause the high E just snapped (lol). Either way I'm grateful for you guys walking me through this. I will probably switch back to 10's though, just for consistency. Do you guys recommend any brand?

Thanks agaiN! I will keep you all posted

ianvomsaal

outontheporch wrote:

I will probably switch back to 10's though, just for consistency. Do you guys recommend any brand?

DR PURE BLUES . . .
Since you said the 9's didn't seem to make a difference, I was gonna suggest that you just switch back
to 10's so you don't have to screw with your truss rod. However, since you did adjust it for the 9-gauge
strings, now you'll have to go back and adjust it again for the 10's (but 10's sounds better, good choice).
Cheers . . .

- Ian

westsidepie

I like DR Black Beauties.

who's_pearljam?

Nice work! Congratulations on getting past one of the great mysteries of the guitar! Neck relief. Once you learn the truss rod adjusting, bridge saddle adjusting and intonation you'll be able to tweak things just to what you want! Won't be long, you'll be refretting and resetting necks!

Yup,,,, lately I've been big on DR strings, too. Depending on the guitar, Pure Blues or Black Beauties, but the Tight fits are great, too.