15w Valve amp = Gigging amp?!?

YkantItouchit

My band has recently started gigging, 2 vox/guitars, bass (me) and drums. I off loaded my Peavey Classic30 to one of the guitarists and he's loving it. The other guitarist is playing through an old Peavey Studio Pro 112.

My mission has been to get him into a valve amp also on the cheap, but i'm questioning whether it's going to be loud enough on stage?

Any of you had any good/bad experiences with Epi's, Fender or Ampeg 15w valve amps?

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lucylespian

Ah, yeah !!

There is an exponential relationship between volume and wattage. Double the wattage gives you an extra 3dB only.
Ordinary music listening volumes are at about 1 watt, party loud music is about 10-15 watt, pain threthold occurs at about 100dB, which you will probably achieve wiht a 15 watt tube amp. ( therse are rough numbers)

Speaker efficiency plays a big roel, quads mkae more noise than singels etc, some speakers are very efficient, some less so.

exhausted

really depends on the drummer and whether the two guitarists end up in a dick swinging contest for volume.

if you're a loud band naturally, 15 isn't going to be enough to keep up with the rest of the group.

moster78

exhausted wrote:

really depends on the drummer and whether the two guitarists end up in a dick swinging contest for volume.

if you're a loud band naturally, 15 isn't going to be enough to keep up with the rest of the group.

But you can always mic it up to the PA.

exhausted

yes, this is true. for performance at least. if you have a fully equipped rehearsal space, all the better.

my experience is limited to rehearsing in an honest to goodness meat locker with a loud band.

i think if there is lots of space in the music, 15 could be enough, but if it's balls out a lot of the time, the other guitar might be dominant a lot of the time.

clean headroom is another issue which might be moot in a loud band.

IDgotI

15 wats *could* be enough. But as others have noted above there are lots of variables, a major one being the matching of the speaker to the amp. An efficient speaker could make that 15 watt amp sound way louder than a 30 watt with an inefficient speaker. Another thing to consider is the type of music / sort of tone you are going for. If you want a lot of tube breakup and overdrive then the less powerful the amp the better. Break up occurs as the amp is pushed to and past it's limits. On the other hand, if you are going to want clean tones you might need something with some more gas. Basically what all this boils down to is the one rule everyone comes back to and that there is ultimately no getting around... Try each piece of gear out and *then* decide. The numbers and stats in the end are just like pieces in a jig saw puzzle which catalogs and sales people sometimes pull out of context to streamline the process of selling things. At the end of the day a gear purchase is as complicated, or maybe simple, as whatever sound makes your band come alive or come together.

Good luck

samquigley

15 watts is more than enough. If it's turned up full and can't be heard over the rest of the band, it won't matter. Your audience has already left in an attempt to minimise the permanent damage you've already done to their hearing. I've got a Fender Pro Jr. and I don't want to be anywhere near the thing when it gets towards half volume. Of course, even if you were running a 200w Hiwatt, you'd mic the thing up. Otherwise, the people directly in front of the speaker cabinet are deafened and everyone else only hears what's been bounced around the room a few times, by which time most of the nice musical frequencies have been absorbed, leaving just the piercing highs and the farty lows.

All Those Yesterdays

The biggest question is how clean do you need your tone?

lucylespian

Yeah, when someone says 15 watts, I automatically think clean tones, cos I don't know of a 15watt amp with an over drive channel worth talking about. The Blues JUniour just comes to mind, dun it !

for cleans 15 watts enough

Thorns2010

Damnit I hate you Austrailians....its a TUBE amp....not valve.....

ok you can carry on now



EDIT: Ok looks like lucylespian knows what to call it.....so I don't hate all of you from down under....;)

ianvomsaal

Basically there's a lot of things to consider . . .
To drive this point home
#1 (most important to me) It depends on how loud your band is.
Also, 1-speaker doesn't deliver the same as 2, 3, or 4 speakers.
I prefer 2X10's or 4X10's because the sound seems tighter, more focused, and of coarse fuller than a single speaker.
For me, 4X10's just don't sound as overly flabby as 4X12's (but I also like the sound of 2 vintage 30's).

I'd tell you to try and match the guitarist's wattage so that there isn't a pissing war over volume.
(Man you're way louder than me, well my volume is only on 5, well my amp doesn't even get that loud, ect, ect).
I actually tape my volume knob down once I have an appropriate level -- then I have the other guitarist find a
comparable level with his rig, and I tape his volume knob down as well (this way our stage volume is always
the same, and it's more in the hands of our sound guy, or the house sound guy).

Also remember that a club gig will usually sound different from your typical rehearsal space.
Sound has an innate ability to disappear when you're on a stage in a big club/venue where there's loads
of people drinking and talking and moving about (and an outside venue can be horrible without proper a proper mix).
Remember (much to my dismay) many clubs don't MIC the instruments.
Many clubs only use the PA for vocals and Acoustic Guitars.
I think this may be there attempt to control volume (unfortunately they just don't understand that a proper
PA mix can keep overall volumes lower, including stage volume).
I want to hear myself in the monitor in front of me - PERIOD (I like hearing the entire band in front of
me - Plus, You'll get a better performance out of me if I can hear myself).
Whatever the house does with my signal after the (monitor) mix . . . well I just don't care . . .

SO - I guess my main point is "band volume." Try and match the sounds, and you should be fine.

- Ian

YkantItouchit

Thanks guys for your advice re: VALVE / (tube) amps @Thorns2010

Muchly appreciated!

Luckly for us our rehearsal space is miked up, so that shouldn't be a problem. As ianvomsaal mentioned though, not every gig will be miked through the PA.

All Those Yesterdays

Ykan'tItouchit wrote:

Thanks guys for your advice re: VALVE / (tube) amps @Thorns2010

Muchly appreciated!

Luckly for us our rehearsal space is miked up, so that shouldn't be a problem. As ianvomsaal mentioned though, not every gig will be miked through the PA.

Your allowed to say Valve amps. We are the only people that call them tube amps. It's sort of like the metric system!