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Tube v. Solid State

Scoot82Scoot82 Posts: 78
edited December 2003 in Musicians and Gearheads
Hello, i am looking to by my little bro a new amp for xmas (he currently has an old Peavey of mine from about 10 years ago) and I was wondering just how much better a tube amp is than a solid state. Also, how comparable are the wattages of each (ie a 15watt tube amp is a loud as a ______watt solid state amp). I am looking the $250-$300 price range here. Any suggestions/commnets? Thanks.
Well, it's one louder, isn't it?
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Comments

  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Tubes tend to sound warmer, but less-defined. There's a huge range of sounds from tube amps, though, so it's hard to say what the advantages of all tube amps are over all solid-state amps. And there are some great solid-state amps out there, too. The Roland Jazz Chorus comes immediately to mind... the Music Man amps all have solid-state preamps but tube power amps, whereas many amps (called hybrids) have tube preamps but solid-state power amps.

    Generally, a tube amp has real output of 175% (roughly) their rated power. So a tube amp rated at 100 watts will output close to 175 watts fully cranked. That's an estimation, not an absolute nor a rule of thumb.

    This Pignose amp is all tube and very reasonably priced. At 40 watts, it could easily power an external speaker cabinet (up to a 4x12"):
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031220031110209206226210917624/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/489052/

    It's about the only all-tube amp under $300 that I know of. But there's always used gear...
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • mogwaimogwai Posts: 141
    What about my sweet my pro junior?it's quite cheap there.It costs less than 300$ i think.Here in EU the best price i could get for a new one was 400 euros...U can read some reviews in harmony-central.com.Everybody said that it's a pretty good amp for a begginer in tube amps...
    "You stay classy San Diego" Ron Burgundy
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    For some reason, I was thinking they were closer to $400, but I checked, and the Pro Junior is in fact $300. Here's a link:
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031221034552209206226200495446/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/480511/

    The Pignose has much higher capacity (40 watts versus 15 watts) but the Pro Junior is a phenomenal amp.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • FlizankFlizank Posts: 59
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031221145730067087251009739310/g=guitar/s=amps/search/detail/base_pid/480723/

    If your looking for a solid state amp, this one is awesome. 100 Watts and it sounds pretty strong. its no tube amp, but its still awesome.
    PresiWAH of the Evenflow Fan Club
    Don't need a hand, there's always arms attached.
    Don't get behind I can't fall back.
    Why must we trust all these rusted rails?
    They don't want no change. We already have.
  • exhaustedexhausted Posts: 6,638
    i like the pro junior. if he's serious about guitar, it's the kind of amp that will always be useful for recording or bedroom etc. even if he's moved on to big marshalls or something someday. a great, simple little tube amp.
  • mogwaimogwai Posts: 141
    And since you want it for your little bro,the pro should be the one coz of it's ease of use.You only got one tone and one volume control(clean to drive).And it's a pretty loud amp too.IIn fact too loud...I got one a month ago and i am so happy with it...I really do love that liitle,cute amp...
    "You stay classy San Diego" Ron Burgundy
  • Scoot82Scoot82 Posts: 78
    cool, thanks for the help everyone
    Well, it's one louder, isn't it?
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    http://www.musictoyz.com/hiwattamp.htm


    here's another pretty good relatively inexpensive tube amp/

    tube amps are roughly twice as loud as solid state amps of the same power rating because tube amps are rated at roughly half of their total output. Because the max power is rated before distortion. Full out. A 100 watt head is maxing out at around 199 watts. Basically though equate the amount of speakers with the amount of volume. Speakers move air. The more speakers you have the louder your sounds going to be. The more wattage you have the cleaner the tone will be further up the volume knob. In a bedroom or basement environment anything over say 15-30 watts is overkill.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    Basically though equate the amount of speakers with the amount of volume. Speakers move air. The more speakers you have the louder your sounds going to be.

    That little tube Hiwatt is pretty fuckin' sweet, Paco... anyone want a Vibro Champ? Just kidding...

    The actual scientific rule of thumb is that, for every doubling of speakers (and available amplification to power them) you add 5 dB of sound. To double the percieved volume, you have to add 10 dB of sound. So, to double the volume, you have to quadruple the speakers... Just thought I'd let you guys in on that.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    That little tube Hiwatt is pretty fuckin' sweet, Paco... anyone want a Vibro Champ? Just kidding...

    The actual scientific rule of thumb is that, for every doubling of speakers (and available amplification to power them) you add 5 dB of sound. To double the percieved volume, you have to add 10 dB of sound. So, to double the volume, you have to quadruple the speakers... Just thought I'd let you guys in on that.

    Thus a 100 watt combo with One 12" speaker would be roughly half as loud as a 100 watt head with a 4x12 Cabinet as far as DB's go.

    However the amount of speakers their respective peak wattages cone material cabinet material etc all effect tone. In the end it's all trial and error. It just depends on what you are shooting for. It's really not possible to get every tone out of 1 speaker or speaker cabinet. You just have to pick one you really like.



    Keep in mind if you quadruple the speakers without raising the wattage the rig is going to break up (distort) sooner than the cooresponding rig with less speakers. So if you're going for a distorted tone at a reasonable volume a 15 watt tube combo like my Orange into a 4x12 cabinet will sound great but if you want that same 15 watts to sound clean. One speaker would be better for the task.

    Yeah I want that Hiwatt too MIG. Pretty cheap considering. I could use it for cleans because we both know how bright they are. Imagine a couple EL-84 Mullards in the Power Amp and some EH or Phillips 12AX7s in the Pre amp.

    I am such a dork.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    You nailed it, Paco. I was worried I'd have to explain that a couple times until people got it... us live-sound idiots tend to confuse folks with our little talismen... especially guitar-players...
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    You nailed it, Paco. I was worried I'd have to explain that a couple times until people got it... us live-sound idiots tend to confuse folks with our little talismen... especially guitar-players...


    It's the Ego thing. I hope santa claus brings you an EAW array for christmas. You've been a good boy this year.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    It's the Ego thing. I hope santa claus brings you an EAW array for christmas. You've been a good boy this year.

    I'd rather have an EAW 750F trap system... no place to hang a line array, but I can stack the traps in my apartment... wire up my place for 5.1 with 'dubs... Merry Frickin' Christmas, neighbors!
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    I'd rather have an EAW 750F trap system... no place to hang a line array, but I can stack the traps in my apartment... wire up my place for 5.1 with 'dubs... Merry Frickin' Christmas, neighbors!


    Shaq should have these in his theatre.

    http://www.eaw.com/products/cinema/
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    Shaq should have these in his theatre.

    http://www.eaw.com/products/cinema/


    http://www.eaw.com/products/KF/kf700.shtml

    SOOO tasty...

    I really do like JBL for theater applications...

    But look at the horn structure in those 750 and 755 boxes... like, whoa, dude...
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    http://www.eaw.com/products/KF/kf700.shtml

    SOOO tasty...

    I really do like JBL for theater applications...

    But look at the horn structure in those 750 and 755 boxes... like, whoa, dude...

    wow. awesome

    and wow. we really should get out more.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    wow. awesome

    and wow. we really should get out more.

    Bah...

    Sure, we could be getting laid, but then we wouldn't know a whole bunch about stuff we'll never use or own...

    Okay, I see your point.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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