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Bad news for those of us who use tabs

FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
edited December 2005 in Musicians and Gearheads
THIS right here fucking sucks!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4508158.stm
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Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    That is a drag, but look on the bright side...it will give you an opportunity to really develop your ear. Before tabs, people learned songs by figuring them out with their ears :)

    Listening is more important than technique.
    new music: http://www.myspace.com/blackbirdsymphonique

    old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    enharmonic wrote:
    That is a drag, but look on the bright side...it will give you an opportunity to really develop your ear. Before tabs, people learned songs by figuring them out with their ears :)

    Listening is more important than technique.


    I never even USED tabs! Maybe I'm backwards, but it's easier to just play it for me than read those little numbers, and they never seem right to me anyway.

    Like you say, I learned by listening. I wore out and scratched more damn copies of John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton playing that damn Beano record over and over to learn those licks!

    Dah dah dah dah DAH! Scratch,,,rrrrrrrrrriiiiipppppp.

    Dah dah dah dah DAH Scratch,,, Riiiiiippppppp.

    :D
    Be kind, man
    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
    __________________________________
  • ramspamramspam Posts: 130
    Powertabs is down at the moment:(. I didn't even get a chance to download everything in time. I love powertabs so much!
    Only fools have signatures...

    +--+-Official Upcoming Australasian Tour:Member #20-+--+
  • Dirty_FrankDirty_Frank Posts: 957
    It's begun...

    mxtabs is gone too..
  • Pearl JuliPearl Juli Posts: 1,213
    I hope given to Wail doesn't go away!!!!!!!!! :(:(:(:(
    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: 2008-06-11

    ♪ Juli ♪
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    Maybe someone here knows Mike or Stone, and could get them to purchase the Given to Wail website :)
    new music: http://www.myspace.com/blackbirdsymphonique

    old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    Pearl_Juli wrote:
    I hope given to Wail doesn't go away!!!!!!!!! :(:(:(:(
    I believe that they will stay based on the fact that it is an official Pearl Jam related website, and they have every right to post tabs of Pearl Jam songs

    all4
  • HailHailVitalogyHailHailVitalogy Posts: 5,216
    thats so retarted

    i mean, ok fine take the tabs away

    but from what their saying, sitting down and listening to it, and learning it and possibly writting it down on paper for you to remember is illegal...thats bullshit
    2003: Uniondale, MSG x2 | 2004: Reading | 2005: Gorge, Vancouver, Philly | 2006: East Rutherford x2, Gorge x2, Camden 1, Hartford | 2008: MSG x2, VA Beach | 2009: Philly x3 | 2010: MSG x2, Bristow | 2011: Alpine Valley x2 | 2012: MIA Philly | 2013: Wrigley, Charlottesville, Brooklyn 2 | 2014: Milan, Amsterdam 1 | 2016: MSG x2, Fenway x2, Wrigley 2 | 2018: Rome, Krakow, Berlin, Wrigley 2 | 2021: Sea Hear Now | 2022: San Diego, LA x2, MSG, Camden, Nashville, St. Louis, Denver | 2023: St. Paul 1, Chicago x2, Fort Worth x2, Austin 2 | 2024: Las Vegas 1, Seattle x2, Indy, MSG x2, Philly x2, Baltimore, Ohana 2
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    OLGA.net is still up...

    all4
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    HailHailVitalogy wrote:
    thats so retarted

    i mean, ok fine take the tabs away

    but from what their saying, sitting down and listening to it, and learning it and possibly writting it down on paper for you to remember is illegal...thats bullshit
    yea that makes no sense....its not like you are going out and making a profit on it!! You are simply learning the songs. This is a SMALL step in them taking away our first amendment rights....

    all4
  • moster78moster78 Posts: 1,591
    all4PearlJam wrote:
    yea that makes no sense....its not like you are going out and making a profit on it!! You are simply learning the songs. This is a SMALL step in them taking away our first amendment rights....

    all4

    I think their argument is, and although I think its BS too, is that the sites that publish the tabs have advertisers and are making money from visitors to the sites, based on the ads alone. So they're generating revenue from someone else's copyrighted material. There's an interested article about it here, about the shutdown of an app that pulls songs lyrics into iTunes for you:

    http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/12/pearlyrics/index.php
  • HailHailVitalogyHailHailVitalogy Posts: 5,216
    moster78 wrote:
    I think their argument is, and although I think its BS too, is that the sites that publish the tabs have advertisers and are making money from visitors to the sites, based on the ads alone. So they're generating revenue from someone else's copyrighted material. There's an interested article about it here, about the shutdown of an app that pulls songs lyrics into iTunes for you:

    http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/12/pearlyrics/index.php

    well if thats the case

    then the music world is making a monopoly out of this
    2003: Uniondale, MSG x2 | 2004: Reading | 2005: Gorge, Vancouver, Philly | 2006: East Rutherford x2, Gorge x2, Camden 1, Hartford | 2008: MSG x2, VA Beach | 2009: Philly x3 | 2010: MSG x2, Bristow | 2011: Alpine Valley x2 | 2012: MIA Philly | 2013: Wrigley, Charlottesville, Brooklyn 2 | 2014: Milan, Amsterdam 1 | 2016: MSG x2, Fenway x2, Wrigley 2 | 2018: Rome, Krakow, Berlin, Wrigley 2 | 2021: Sea Hear Now | 2022: San Diego, LA x2, MSG, Camden, Nashville, St. Louis, Denver | 2023: St. Paul 1, Chicago x2, Fort Worth x2, Austin 2 | 2024: Las Vegas 1, Seattle x2, Indy, MSG x2, Philly x2, Baltimore, Ohana 2
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    moster78 wrote:
    I think their argument is, and although I think its BS too, is that the sites that publish the tabs have advertisers and are making money from visitors to the sites, based on the ads alone. So they're generating revenue from someone else's copyrighted material. There's an interested article about it here, about the shutdown of an app that pulls songs lyrics into iTunes for you:

    http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/12/pearlyrics/index.php
    yes, but that is not what HailHailVitalogy said. "but from what their saying, sitting down and listening to it, and learning it and possibly writting it down on paper for you to remember is illegal...thats bullshit." That is what is bullshit, that it could be illegal for us to even learn the songs and play them for ourselves. THAT is taking away 1st amendment rights...

    all4
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    I disagree. Your first amendment right to freedom of speech is different than encroaching on someone's intellectual property. Now, if you cover a PJ song, most people will know that you're covering PJ. But say you're coveing the song of some band from Youngstown Ohio that you saw one night at a bar in Kentucky...you and maybe 6 other people will know that you're covering someone's song...unless you're ethical about it.

    In a benevolent world, music would be free. I can't speak for any artist other than myself, but I personally have no problem with people who wish to learn my songs (which surprisingly has happened...a very strange feeling...). However, if they intend to record it or otherwise play it in a fashion that will translate into getting paid for my work, I'd like to receive some form of economic consideration...just as if any of us were to learn...say Spin The Black Circle, and record a version of it. We'd owe PJ some loot. Also, technically, if we're playing covers in a band that gets paid to play covers, there's a royalty we should be paying for the right to reproduce that work.

    Sucks, but that's technically the business of it. Businesses that play music in their business establishment have to pay for a licence to do that legally. i know that from working at a place that got hit with the boilerplate legal notice that playing the music without paying the appropriate performing rights organization (ASCAP, BMI, etc) was an enforcable act.
    new music: http://www.myspace.com/blackbirdsymphonique

    old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
  • moster78moster78 Posts: 1,591
    all4PearlJam wrote:
    yes, but that is not what HailHailVitalogy said. "but from what their saying, sitting down and listening to it, and learning it and possibly writting it down on paper for you to remember is illegal...thats bullshit." That is what is bullshit, that it could be illegal for us to even learn the songs and play them for ourselves. THAT is taking away 1st amendment rights...

    all4

    I totally think its BS what they're trying to pull, but I can see where they're coming from. Other people are making money by offering up their intellectual property, regardless if its free to us to access. The site is still making money if they have advertisers. Its all really fuzzy, legally speaking and I'm curious to see how it will play out. I just see it as another way that the music companies and publishers are losing out thanks to the Internet. I somehow invision a lot of paying for sheet music in the future.
  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    enharmonic wrote:
    I disagree. Your first amendment right to freedom of speech is different than encroaching on someone's intellectual property. Now, if you cover a PJ song, most people will know that you're covering PJ. But say you're coveing the song of some band from Youngstown Ohio that you saw one night at a bar in Kentucky...you and maybe 6 other people will know that you're covering someone's song...unless you're ethical about it.

    In a benevolent world, music would be free. I can't speak for any artist other than myself, but I personally have no problem with people who wish to learn my songs (which surprisingly has happened...a very strange feeling...). However, if they intend to record it or otherwise play it in a fashion that will translate into getting paid for my work, I'd like to receive some form of economic consideration...just as if any of us were to learn...say Spin The Black Circle, and record a version of it. We'd owe PJ some loot. Also, technically, if we're playing covers in a band that gets paid to play covers, there's a royalty we should be paying for the right to reproduce that work.

    Sucks, but that's technically the business of it. Businesses that play music in their business establishment have to pay for a licence to do that legally. i know that from working at a place that got hit with the boilerplate legal notice that playing the music without paying the appropriate performing rights organization (ASCAP, BMI, etc) was an enforcable act.


    Well said! You just saved me a whole lot of typing!

    (I quoted you, enharmonic,,, I'll pay for the rights to that, just send me a bill! :D)

    An old adage in the music biz is that the artist is always the last one to get paid.
    I think the artist has every right to get paid if a web site publishes his/ her/ their music on a website and makes money on it. Some of those big sites that have all the ads on them are making good money. If I were to write a TAB and sheet music book of Pearl Jam music and sell it in a store, I would be infringing on PJ's copywrite.
    Personally, if I want to learn a song, I usually just figure it out, but if I wanted the convienience of downloading it in a few seconds, I wouldn't mind paying for the labor of the person that did the transcribing, AND the artist that wrote it.


    I'm not for these big publishing companies impinging on our rights, and I don't think that they're trying to take away the rights to learning the music, but more after the people that scan published sheet music and tab books and put it up on the web, or run the big tab sites that fill our screens with pop ups that are making them money. (No pop ups on a mac, though! :D)
    If a website is making money off an artist's work, then they should pay a bit to the artist, if the artist or owner of the music wants a cut.

    The same would hold true if I was a book writer. If I wrote a novel and had it copywrited and protected, and suddenly saw it published for free on the web, I would want the right to decide if I was going to be paid for that. (My decision would be "Yes! :D )

    I think the artist who wrote the music should have the right to decide if their published music is public. If they want to put it up for free, then THEY should be able to make the call. You can get a lot of lyrics off the musician's websites now, anyway.

    I can't imagine a Pearl Jam pulling the lyrics and tabs off a site that's associated with themselves, though.

    Whew, that's a bit heavy duty for a Saturday morning! :)
    Be kind, man
    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
    __________________________________
  • casper leblanccasper leblanc Posts: 1,246
    I completely agree with what you and what enharmonic posted. I do have some thoughts in this though.

    I once wrote a piece for an art critic magazine over here about PJ and the way they handled the whole bootleg thing. It involved the internet and sites (like sharing the groove, easytree) that use bit torrent to spread bootlegs.
    who's_pearljam? wrote:
    I think the artist who wrote the music should have the right to decide if their published music is public.

    One of my major points was exactly what you just said here who's_pj. But in cases like this, when The Music Publishers’ Association, IFPI and other big institutions from the industry are involved, I can't help but think: have they really CHECKED with the artist? Perfect example is the Live Music Archive, who have obtained a written agreement from EVERY band or artist (or management) who's music is on there. They actually checked first.

    (http://www.archive.org/audio/etree.php):

    "All music in this Collection is from trade-friendly artists." Trade-friendly meaning:

    http://wiki2.etree.org/index.php?page=TradeFriendly


    Sometimes I think the coordinating organizations, the music industry are the people furthest away from the artists. So to come back to what you said, who's_pj, it seems like they hardly make an effort to ask what the artist wants. Instead, they're just panicking and shooting desperately at anything that moves. Despite to what they might say, it seems like they represent themselves, not the artists.
  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    pearlwax wrote:
    Sometimes I think the coordinating organizations, the music industry are the people furthest away from the artists. So to come back to what you said, who's_pj, it seems like they hardly make an effort to ask what the artist wants. Instead, they're just panicking and shooting desperately at anything that moves. Despite to what they might say, it seems like they represent themselves, not the artists.

    Good points, Pearlwax.

    Believe me, I have no love for the big label music companies and organiations like this. Their greed has surpressed so much innovative music and so many new bands, and has run way too many artists into the ground.


    MPA isn’t really an organization advocating rights for the musician, but more rights for the publishers of the music. They do work with ASCAP and a lot of the other organizations who are supposed to be advocates for their members, who may be record companies who own the rights to musicians’s music, but a lot of ASCAP members are savvy musicians who are learning that in this world you need to learn to protect yourself and retain the rights and control of your music.
    People like Ani DiFranco and David Byrne and a lot of other artists are controlling their own destinies and have their own labels and distribution that are fair to the musicians.
    I’m a member of ASCAP and they actually do fight for your rights. Fortunately for everyone's ears, I suck at writing lyrics, so I have nothing to protect! :D

    But the fact of the matter is to me, no matter if the big organization is being benevolent to the musicians or not, we don't know that, and if the company has the rights to the music, then is it our right to take if it's against copyright laws?

    Walmart is a major sweat shop type company. A lot of the cheap stuff in there is made in deplorable conditions. If they don’t take care of the workers in the factories that make their stuff, does that give us the right to go in and take stuff off the shelves?
    No,,, you have to find other ways to make your point, like not shopping there, and telling them why. (Ok, that has nothing to do with anything, I guess, but I typed it and I’m leaving it,, Dammit! :D )


    I guess it all comes down to the fact again, the musician is always at the end of the food chain in the music business, and, do we as consumers decide to prolong that fact, or do we try to do our part to be fair to the actual writer?
    Be kind, man
    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
    __________________________________
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    Another sad reality is that a lot of artists do not own their publishing entirely :(. Pie in the sky, but sticking with the PJ example, Ed might not have a problem with you learning his songs, or even playing them, but if he doesn't own 100% of the publishing rights, you better believe that some bean counter who couldn't write a song if their life depended on it will be chasing you down for their cut of Ed's genius...which their company owns.

    :(
    new music: http://www.myspace.com/blackbirdsymphonique

    old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    Mxtabs.net is down. Was a great site.
  • Pearl Jam and toastPearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    enharmonic wrote:
    That is a drag, but look on the bright side...it will give you an opportunity to really develop your ear. Before tabs, people learned songs by figuring them out with their ears :)

    Listening is more important than technique.
    that was my first thought.

    i can live without tabs

    and the lawsuit might even be correct in going after those sites,... maybe a little skewed...
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



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  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    Pearl Jam and toast wrote:
    that was my first thought.

    i can live without tabs

    and the lawsuit might even be correct in going after those sites,... maybe a little skewed...


    I don't think tabs will disappear,,, but there probably will be a licensing fee, or a fee to download, which hopefully will trickle down to the artist.

    They always sound off loud when they start a lawsuit like that to put the scare into the defendant. I bet they'll settle something.
    Be kind, man
    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
    __________________________________
  • sj_2150sj_2150 Posts: 275
    mmm, i heard of this, fuck those greedy asslickers
    I wish my grass was emo... so then it would cut itself
    http://www.soundclick.com/Arcticangel
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  • trumansghosttrumansghost Posts: 86
    Flagg wrote:
    THIS right here fucking sucks!!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4508158.stm
    wow. that's a buzz kill
  • dreadheaddreadhead Posts: 64
    if anyone is interested the fretplay site is still up. hope that helps some of you out
    "I wish I was Australian at home under the sun" Eddie- Perth 03
  • casper leblanccasper leblanc Posts: 1,246
    who's_pearljam? wrote:
    I never even USED tabs! Maybe I'm backwards, but it's easier to just play it for me than read those little numbers, and they never seem right to me anyway.

    Like you say, I learned by listening. I wore out and scratched more damn copies of John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton playing that damn Beano record over and over to learn those licks!

    Dah dah dah dah DAH! Scratch,,,rrrrrrrrrriiiiipppppp.

    Dah dah dah dah DAH Scratch,,, Riiiiiippppppp.

    :D

    Yesterday I pretty much figured out a song by ear, just the basic chord progression though, and how to play/improvise with that. It's a song by Thomas Dybdahl, an amazing Norwegian guy.

    So that was pretty cool. Then I wrote it down and sent it to a fan site, so they can put it up there for my fellow fans :p:D
  • IamMineIamMine Posts: 2,743
    Wow, that is so sad...

    My 12 years old son loves mxtabs.com and has been addicted to it for a long time.

    We noticed it improved his guitar skills and he loves to share feedbacks with other people on the internet....

    I wonder if he just thought the site was down temporarily....

    The first thing he does when he gets home from school is going to mxtabs.com with his guitar.

    This reallly makes me mad as a mom. :mad:
    JA: Why do I get the Ticketmaster question?
    EV: It's your band.
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    "Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
  • dreadheaddreadhead Posts: 64
    IamMine wrote:
    Wow, that is so sad...

    My 12 years old son loves mxtabs.com and has been addicted to it for a long time.

    We noticed it improved his guitar skills and he loves to share feedbacks with other people on the internet....

    I wonder if he just thought the site was down temporarily....

    The first thing he does when he gets home from school is going to mxtabs.com with his guitar.

    This reallly makes me mad as a mom. :mad:

    i would probably suggest the fretplay site as it is still up and has mostly the same content as mxtabs, hope that helps
    "I wish I was Australian at home under the sun" Eddie- Perth 03
  • mrwalkerbmrwalkerb Posts: 1,015
    basstabarchive is still up

    12/21
    "I'm not suicidal, except when I drink. That's why we don't all drink at the same time, there'd be no-one alive to drive home..."
    Chris Cornell

    http://www.myspace.com/mrwalkerb
  • U-RU-R Posts: 223
    i've said it once, i've said it 498 times. laws that can't be enforced are no laws at all
    if you love somebody, set them free. if somebody loves you, don't fuck up
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