hmmm...stereo head with EL34s & 6L6s
Telesonic
Posts: 222
so i've been thinking about getting a Rivera S120 head and throwing some 6L6s in the second power section, rebiased of course. i'd have an arsenal of tone with this amp. there's one on ebay right now that looks to be in great shape. i'm so tempted.
my life...you electrify my life. let's conspire to reignite...all the souls that would die just feel alive.
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Telesonic, nice to see you. House53's lead guitar player (The Ruckus) uses a Rivera but it's a Suprema 55 I think.
I personally love Rivera. The 6L6's should be well suited as Paul Rivera became famous designing the Fender Custom Shop amps in the Early 80's but you probably knew that. Likewise the fact that 6L6's are generally cleaner and clearer than EL-34's with a looser bottom end. If you are thinking of swapping you know what you want go for it. I think you can order those with either brand new so you're cool. It will probably be an interesting combo. Since Paul usually tries to get the best of Fender and Marshall that might very well be it.
I think it sound's good go for it. It will definately be loud as hell.
but yeah, rivera amps are great. i'm not sure if i understood you right, buy you know the s120 has two power sections right? so i'm going to have EL34s in one and then 6L6s in the other. i can just flip between the two or have both on. how awesome is that? i think i'll get two 1x12 cabinets and have the EL34 section to one cabinet and the 6L6 section to the other. wonder how that would sound with both power sections on at the same time.
what cabinets/speakers would you recommend for each? i'm clueless when it comes to that.
If you'd like to try before you buy check out the Mesa Boogie Road King. It has "Progressive Linkage" In other words exactly as you described, 2 or more power tube stages. In this case EL-34's and 6L6's you can use either or or a combination of both. Definately a good way to see how it would sound since the Road Kings are more common now. If there is one amp that can nearly do it all it is the Road King. If this were "Lord of the Rings" the Road King would be the ring of power and is priced accordingly
To find out more http://www.rivera.com http://www.mesaboogie.com
I personally think the rivera will be badass.
That's a pretty high powered amp, you are probably going to need some fairly heavy duty speaker cabs. There are so many good one's out there I personally have an affinity for Orange's usually they come with greenbacks but you'd need to go with the more stout Vintage 30's because of the higher power handling.
Check out the Marshall 1960AX cabs they should be perfect with the checkered grill cloth and V 30's.
I definately think the V 30's are perfect with that head. Many companies are going to combinations of speakers.
DR Z. (http://www.DRZamps.com) loads the Z best cabs with a V 30 and a Celestion Heritage. AKA G12H
Because your amp is going to be fairly high powered (120 watts is around 200 to 240 peak) you'll probably want to go with the 60 watt speakers at the lowest which is why I recommend V 30's you still get the nice smooth breakup. Rivera has some decent cab's as well, I believe Celestion makes a custom model for Rivera as they do Matchless and other companies. I suggest you shop around, but I think the Celestion Vintage 30 speaker is probably going to be your choice.
If you want you could run a 6L6 side to a 4x10 jensen cab (like a bassman and just take care not to run it too loud) for authentic fender tones. Jensen's would be cool. Or a couple of Vibroverb style 1X15's or twin style 2x12's JBL's ala SRV would be pretty nice.
I believe Weber calls their similar models the California.
Check out http://www.webervst.com they make amazing speakers among other things
I could go on for days.
For the EL-34 amp section, get Celestion Greenbacks. For the 6L6 amp section, get a Weber alnico or a Jensen. You have a lot of power there, so you might consider getting two 2x12" speakers.
Of course, you could always get a 2x12" cab for the EL-34's, and then get a 4x10" for the 6L6's. But then again, the ghost of Yngwie sees many possibilities...
thanks guys. i'd like to stick with a 1x12 for each side though. since this is a stereo amp, there is 60 watts per output. and with the half-power switch and pentode/triode switch, i can choose either 60, 30, 15, or 8 watts. for the EL34 side, i'll go with the vintage 30. for the 6L6 side, i guess i'll go with the jensen 'p' series or 'c' series. which one would be better? the 50 watt models should be good since i will rarely crank it.
oh paco, there isn't actually a switch for going between the two. you'd have to plug and unplug the two sides. but i could easily make a switch box to select either or both.
Ah, yeah, the switch box would probably be no problem although you want to make sure the impedence is right. You'll have a tough choice between the Vintage 30 and the Greenback. Since you'll probably be going with Ceramic on the EL-34 side you might want to go Alnico on the 6L6 side since with the half power and pentode/triode switch too much power is not much of a problem.
Unless you can find original Jensen's I'd probably go with a Weber instead. They have a really good reputation. Two 12's and Two 10's would be really nice think (vibrolux)
I could probably spend all your money very quickly though.
1x12 and 1x12 is fine even a 1x12 and a 2x10 if you want. I'd go with the ceramic mag on the EL-34 and an ALNICO on the 6L6 so you get two distinct different and classic sounds.
Here's one place to check out. There are tons of good ones on the net if you want a custom cab built thought you can probably do it yourself.
http://www.avatarspeakers.com/
As far as a switching system, a simple A-B-Y should be able to handle it. Morley makes a great unit that's dependable and reliable. Then you could select the EL-34's, the 6L6's, or both together.
If it was ME getting that amp, I'd get a 2x12" Celestion Greenback cab for the EL-34's and then get a 4x10" Weber 10A100 cab for the 6L6's. Paco's suggestion to get a 1x12" cab with a 2x10" cab would work as well. 10" speakers are great for a nice, woody Fender tweed tone. Vibro-Verb, Vibro-Lux, Vibro-King, Bassman, Super Reverb, Super Six... all used 10" speakers.
Just remember to match impedance! If you decide to go with a multi-speaker cabinet, parallel wiring cuts impedance in half and series wiring doubles impedance. So, if you got two 8-ohm speakers, wiring in parallel will drop them to a 4-ohm load and series wiring will double to a 16-ohm load.
MIG, the switching system is little more complex than that. each output has to have a speaker load, even when not in use or it will damage the power amp section. i'm sure you know this. so i have to put a dummy load in place of a speaker when not using each side. i've got the switching all figured out. i'll have 3 switches on my box. one for switching the EL34 on and another for the 6L6 side. when each switch is off, it'll substitute a power resistor for the load. each side has its own resistor load. if it were going to a 8ohm speaker, then i'd just make this a 8ohm 100watt resistor. then there would be last switch for selecting between the two cabinets.
that would let me do the each of the following combinations:
only 6L6 --> weber cab
only EL34 --> celestion cab
both 6L6 --> weber cab & EL34 --> celestion cab
only 6L6 --> celestion cab
only EL34 --> weber cab
both 6L6 -->celestion cab & EL34 --> weber cab
the impedances for each cabinet have to be identical though.
this would be pretty damn sweet.
i'd just mount the box on top the head i guess. and i'd only do this switching when in standby.
If you need supplies for the dummy load, http://www.webervst.com sells that too (motor only so it's cheaper (mag and voice coil). Just e-mail and they'll get back to you on whatever you need.
actually, since i'm completely cutting off each of the power sections, i don't need a reactive load like that motor. i think thats mainly for attenuators which need to simulate speaker movement. a simple resistor will absord the power output of the side of the amp not being used. so what i'll need for my box is an enclosure, 4 input/output jacks, 3 toggle switches, and the 2 power resistors. and with 100 watt resistors, i should be in good shape. i've found all of this in my mouser catalog, so it will be pretty easy to build.
well, you are the man.....
Now all you need is one of your overdrives in front of the thing.
no paco, you're the man. i'm blown away by your vast knowledge of all kinds of gear related to guitar.
A: EL-34 -> Celestion Cab
B: 6L6 -> Weber Cab
Y: Both
Then you would have a speaker load on each amp section, even if no signal is coming in or going out. But then you couldn't switch the amp-to-cabinet route without powering down and swapping cables.