An update to my psycho neighbor

JonnyPistachio

A few of you gave some advice on this a few weeks ago:
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=305776&highlight=neighbor

This neighbor (the property manager), across the street and at least fifty yards away has been harrassing me about our music. Their 15 unit apt complex is a dump, and the whole neighborhood is kinda loud in general.

She called the cops on us two or three days after she moved in. I have since seem her sreaming at three of the tenants in her building for parking someplace she doesnt like.

Well, this lady is at it again. Just to give you a look into how crazy she is - the other day my roomate (and drummer) used their parking lot to turn his car around, and she came out screaming that he was trespassing.

Since she called the cops, I have purchased soundproofing foam, heavy curtains, and a comforter. We drape this stuff and cram it all into the windows. I have gone outside and you can BARELY hear the music. The bass drum is the only thing that is semi-pronounced.

She left a note that I have no right to disturb her and she could SUE ME! and that becasue I make money playing music, I am in violation of Lake Worth city ordinances. I saw no ordinances on this, and in addition, I dont make money yet, we dont play gigs yet. The only ordinance I could find is:

"It shall be unlawful for any person to willfully make or continue, or cause to be made or continued, any loud and raucous noise, which term shall mean any sound which, because of its volume level, duration and character, annoys, disturbs, injures or endangers the comfort, health, peace or safety of reasonable persons of ordinary sensibilities.,,in any event from a location not less than fifty (50) feet from the source of the noise."

we also limit our playing to 5pm to 8:30 now. She is just the neigborhood nazi the way I see it.

The only thing I can think of is to get some people in her building to be character witnesses in that she is not reasonable persons of ordinary sensibilities...haha! that's in the city ordinances.

I think i'm fucked and my music days are coming to an end. so sad...

Pacomc79

Try and make friends with a few police officers if they ever come over and have them stand outside and play as loud as you ever would to find out what is acceptable and what isn't. Since they are the ones that would file the complaints they would know what is ok and what isn't ok. You could call the police station (not 911 the local number) describe the situation, explain that you do not mean to make trouble and see if they can describe the legal ramifications further.

One other thing you could do is see if you can find a DB meter you could borrow or purchase and find out exactly what the level is outside.

Gardenparty

You could always just rent a studio too. Hourly or lockout. No noise complaints there.

I've been in a situaiton similar to your before and unfortuntaly after some time i decided to cut the racket. Mainly because though we liked playing at my place there was realy no reason we couldn't take it elsewhere if it was bothering a neighbor to that extent. Granted she's probably insane but it'll be an uphill battle forever.

i believe before 10pm you should be fine but is it really worth the hassle?

JonnyPistachio

Good ideas. I may just stop by the police station. it's only about 10 blocks from my house. It would probably really show that I am concerned and dont want to cause trouble.

I just looked up decibel meters, they are a little spendy. i may have a friend who has one though.

If I get tossed in jail, just get a PJ message board release party going!

this is just so disturbing. we have dozens of neighbors and have been playing for over 2 years with zero complaints. it just takes one crotchety old hag...

Wobbie

JonnyPistachio wrote:

we have dozens of neighbors and have been playing for over 2 years with zero complaints. it just takes one crotchety old hag...

Maybe the old hag is hoping for something else. Perhaps, as Grand Funk Railroad said, "she was out to meet the boys in the band." :eek:

Ever thought of that?

mccreadyisgod

I would try to find out if there is a specific nominal sound limit ordinance in your city. Usually there is either an actual dB limit or just a rule-of-thumb employed in these matters. Most cities use a rule where noise can't exceed a certain sustained or peak dB level from a certain distance and within certain times. You already mentioned a distance of not less than 50 feet... it can also be from the reporting neighbor's property boundary (as in a next-door neighbor), or from the sidewalk (where your property ends and public domain begins). I'd ask the cops. Just be straight-up with them, too... "I'm in a band, we try to be responsible neighbors, we've taken reasonable efforts to soundproof, and yet a neighbor has complained and made threats." They'll probably tell you something like, "It has to be under 75 dBA from the sidewalk during daytime hours, and under 65 dBA from 10 pm to 7 am."

Radio Shack has dB meters that are a tad more affordable than most. Just be sure to find out what "weighting" the dB ordinance is (peak, average, etc) and use the meter accordingly.

It sounds like you've got a complainer on your hands, so you just need to cover your bases. Hopefully, you'll be legal and within your rights. And if not, like Gardenparty said, you can always look into renting a rehersal space. No reason to give up the band because someone got in your way.

mccreadyisgod

Went and found these:

http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032222

One is an analog meter readout, and the other is digital. $45 is worth it.

If you can find an actual dB limit ordinance, you can invite the lady over during practice, stand with her at the prescribed distance, and show her the meter. Then she'll know that she's wasting her time fighting it.

xtremehardy388

Had this same problem. Now, I work for the police department and I know many of the emergency personnel. Furthermore, I've got a lot of "stroke" in my neighborhood. I've only had one "mean" complaint, and since then, I haven't gotten one. DON'T let some crazy bat tell you your rights. Has an officer come to speak with you? Almost ALWAYS, you'll get a warning before a ticket. Also, ask the officer to stay and help you determine how to work this out. Finally, if the Bat is seriously nutso bananas, have her "sue you" because she probably won't have a case. The only way she'll get a lawyer is if they believe they can win the case. From what it sounds like, she's just a crazy old bat.

JonnyPistachio

Cool, thanks for the Rshack link.
I called code compliance on my lunch break, and they are closed today for some reason. I scanned the ordinances online and couldnt find an exact number for DB...just the 50 foot thing. I will call again tomorrow though. I sure hope there is an exact number, so I dont feel like walking on thin ice whether or not the cops had a good day or a bad day and their opinion of loud could be anything.

As fas as giving up, I would never. I just dont have the cash right now to rent a rehearsal space. maybe we'll just go acoustic for awhile til the old hag finds another bridge to live under.

It is a hassle, and especially upsetting that I bought my home in this neighborhood (loud, young neighborhood) for the very reasons to live the artsy lifestyle.

and btw, if she's out to mee tthe boys in the band, trust me...you'd give up music if they were your only two choices. she is a real life, living, breathing troll of epic slimey proportions. I bet if you looked at her sewage, there'd be childrens fingernails and bones.:)

mccreadyisgod

If there isn't an actual dB number in the ordinances, then speak to the police department, they'll usually have a rule-of-thumb number with some precedence. Just keep telling everyone you talk to that you WANT to play by the rules, and are TRYING to do the right thing. It's a lot easier to make allies, and they're more likely to give you useful info and help you along the way.

One thing worth considering... you could look into having your drummer use a cotton beater on his kick drum and play with rods instead of sticks, and then just bring the level down a bit. It's less condusive to rocking out, but some volume is better than none.

I've always thought it would be cool to go completely silent for practices... get an electronic drum set, POD's for all the guitars and bass, DI's for any keyboards... and then run it all through a little mixer and into a wireless in-ear-monitor rig. The only thing making actual noise would be any vocals. But talk about expensive...

jcmark611

I'm sure her lawyers would love reading this thread if a case ever comes up. If you thinks someone is going to bring legal action against you, you shouldn't go on the internet and call them psycho.

JonnyPistachio

jcmark611 wrote:

I'm sure her lawyers would love reading this thread if a case ever comes up. If you thinks someone is going to bring legal action against you, you shouldn't go on the internet and call them psycho.

well, assuming her current condition and her track record, i'm really not too concerned. Besides, I doubt calling her a psycho will get me in trouble. But I see your point, so from here on out I will use what is stated under the city ordinances: she is not "a reasonable persons of ordinary sensibilities"

if you saw the way she yells at people and talks to the neighboring tenants, you'd understand. She's one in a million.

xtremehardy388

Your neighbor needs a hug.

wolfbear

You say she's screaming at her tenants, so maybe talk to some of them and start a petition to have her fired. It doesn't sound like she is very good at her job!

JonnyPistachio

wolfbear wrote:

You say she's screaming at her tenants, so maybe talk to some of them and start a petition to have her fired. It doesn't sound like she is very good at her job!

you're right. I went by there last night because 4-5 people were hanging around outside. I asked them if my music was a bother and they all adamantly said definitely not. They also told me how she yells at schoolgirls walking home from school if they cut through their parking lot. I think i will start a petition and call the owner or management company.

Can anybody think of any reason she could sue me? I cant think of any unless there is police record of a crime, but i'm not sure.

xtremehardy388

JonnyPistachio wrote:

you're right. I went by there last night because 4-5 people were hanging around outside. I asked them if my music was a bother and they all adamantly said definitely not. They also told me how she yells at schoolgirls walking home from school if they cut through their parking lot. I think i will start a petition and call the owner or management company.

Can anybody think of any reason she could sue me? I cant think of any unless there is police record of a crime, but i'm not sure.

She can make up some BS claim. Before people jump down my throat, it's happened before. Look into any possibilities. The sound thing is something she can't really sue you over, anyway. Also, the police HAVE to HEAR you making the noise. In other words, she cannot make a complaint and then have an officer over and assume you're in the wrong. I've talked to a couple officers about this.