Cant decide between these three guitars
JonnyPistachio
Posts: 10,217
I've been looking all over for an Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor hollow body LEFT-HANDED electric guitar, and someone here almost found one for me on GBase.com, but the guy just sold it when i contacted them.
Anyways, the Epiphone Joe Pass was only made until 2001, so I have to get it used over the internet without inspecting it in person. (See it on Ebay every so often, but hard to come by in general)
But I've been considering a semi-hollowbody Epiphone Sheraton II and the Epiphone Dot semi-hollowbody electric. I can get either of these, but would have to special order it, so I cant play it before I order...Anyone have any experience with any of these guitars? Thanks!!!
Anyways, the Epiphone Joe Pass was only made until 2001, so I have to get it used over the internet without inspecting it in person. (See it on Ebay every so often, but hard to come by in general)
But I've been considering a semi-hollowbody Epiphone Sheraton II and the Epiphone Dot semi-hollowbody electric. I can get either of these, but would have to special order it, so I cant play it before I order...Anyone have any experience with any of these guitars? Thanks!!!
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generally pretty nice guitars, some fit and finish issues usually. sloppy bindings, crooked tuning gears etc.
but overall they're quite solid.
the dot has a thicker neck than the sheraton. much chunkier and therefore i felt it had better tuning stability and better tone and feel.
i think the dot is the better value as well.
the joe pass was nice but too big and would feedback like crazy if playing with gain i'd think. but it may be what you're going for. it is a jazz box. the other two are much more rock and roll.
the pickups in all of them are ok. i don't think much of the wiring though. they use plastic clips between the pickups and the controls. goofy. but it's an ease of manufacturing thing.
there's a new pass lefty sitting in the store here so i think they've only just recently discontinued them again.
my favourite epi hollowbody is the casino though. shouldn't have sold that one. oh well.
i keep selling them because in my heart i want a gibson 335 and won't be fully happy with anything else.
Exhausted,
Thanks for the feedback. You say a new Lefty Pass sitting in the store? Is it for sale?
Are you aware if they make the casino in a LEFTY?
Again, thanks for your feedback, you've been extremely helpful!
there was a lefty casino. in both sunburst and natural finish. on ebay once in a while. i had a natural one but sold it in the pursuit of some other piece of gear.
i'm left handed as well.
in my experiences, you DON'T want to buy an epiphone that you haven't actually played first. the models that you mentioned are all really nice, but be aware that the build-quality will vary from instrument to instrument as a result of the assembly line process through which they're built. so you really have to try it in person first. if it sounds good and looks good, then you should buy it.
I agree with you. But my dilema is in the fact that I play left-handed, and I cant find any of these guitars to try out first. I did play the Joe Pass about four years ago, but I really didnt know how to play guitar at that point.
I wish I could go back in time an learn right-handed.
A $400 Fernandez knock of a strat or Telle can be a KILLER instument. You can really get into the same ball park when you are dealing with solid bodies. Not so with carved arch tops. There is just no sonic comparison between a laminated top and a carved solid one on a jazz guitar. Sonically they don't compare.
Have you ever been to a furniture store where they have plastic "fake" computers and TVs that they put around the furniture to make it look like it's in a home? That's what you are getting with a Joe Pass guitar. The thing looks great... but it sounds like two decent humbuckers shoved into a shoe box. It doesn't sound AWFUL... but it doesn't sound like an arch top hollow body either. It sounds like a mediocre humbucker guitar that just happens to fall apart and feedback owing to the hollow body at very low volume levels.
This is an ornament, not an instrument.
The casino is a very decent guitar. Partly that has to do with the P-90s and the fact that it's not trying to sound like a clean jazz box. It takes advantage of the unrully prospects for feedback a bit more, but it's also got a narrower chamber and it's also a semi-hollow... with a solid center where the pick up are set. Don't know the sheraton first hand. Semi-hollow is a much easier thing to pull off in an affordable guitar. But a full on hollow body is a tricky proposition just owing to the physics and the potentital for feedback. They just don't lend themselves to mass production of any sort. You need honest luthiers to build them, to carve the tops and build the bracings. There just aren't any shortcuts on cost or build quality when it comes to hollow body electrics. If you can't afford one for around a grand or more, then don't waste what money you have just getting an ornament.
For the money you'd spend on a Joe Pass you can get a spot on solid body or semi solid Epiphone, Ibanez or Fernandez that no one would be able to tell apart from a top flight strat or telle just by listenning. Once again, when it comes to carved archtop hollow bodies, however, there just aren't any shortcuts. You get the real deal, or you get eye candy and waste your money. The Joe Pass Epi is great if you are doing a play and need a prop. If you want a serious instrument, skip it.
Wow, thanks for your input. This is why I have hesitated on buying up to this point. Like I said earlier, I played this guitar a few years ago, before I had much experience. But I did love the neck size and the way it played. (I have big clunky hands and a thumb that barely moves!) Also, I didnt even have the amp up over vol 2 probably.
Mostly, I play an unusual style of rock, and was looking for something a little different. I am interested in Jazz too, but dont know too much right now.
Basically, I think I'll wait until I can play one of these guitars in person before making a decision. My last resort would be to special order the Dot or the Sheraton in Lefty from guitar center or sam ash, and return it if I dont like it.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge everyone!
Is this a bad thing in the case of the DOt?
As amplifiers grew so powerful that they could take up all the slack in making a guitar sound loud, solid body guitars with no sound chamber became possible. Hello Les Paul, Strats, and Teles.
With powerful amplifiers there was no longer a real NEED for the hollow body guitar. Not only that, but trying to use a powerful amp with a hollow body guitar can result in massive amounts of feedback as the internal sound chamber amplifies the vibration of the wooden sound board... which gets picked up and amplified by the pickups... which translates into a louder sound from the amp... which causes more vibration in the sound chamber... and on the sound board... which causes more to be passed on to the pick ups... which gets further amplified at the amp... which causes more vibrations... and so on and so on... Feedback.
With a contemporary amp there really is no need for a hollow body on an electric guitar. So since there is no need for one, the only reason to have a hollow body would be to add a desirable quality to the sound or playability of the instrument.
Now, there ARE desirable qualities which come from a hollow body, not the least of which being a feeling for the player of greater "Responsiveness" to things like left handed (or in your case right handed) vibrato technique.
But since full sized hollow bodies can squeal like pigs in heat when used with modern amplifiers, other varieties of guitars started to get built that would try to capture some of the "responsiveness" of a hollow body, that could still work well with a decently powerful amp.
Semi Hollow guitars and hollow guitars with very Narrow sound chambers were developed as a way to give players some of the qualities they wanted from a hollow body, without the big sound box they not only no longer needed, but which could cause them trouble in terms of feedback.
From what Exhausted writes it looks like the Casino is a narow sound box guitar, not a semi hollow as I'd first written. The dot, I take it, is a semi hollow, meaning there is a solid block of wood in the guitar body flanked by narrow hollow sound chambers.
Anyway the original point I was trying to make is that the only reason anyone would get a hollow body guitar at this point, apart from how it looks, would be for the sound qualities that particular hollow body imparts to the tone.
Now a semi hollow like the dot, or a narrow sound chamber guitar like the casino will already give you the "air" and "Responsiveness" of a hollow body that I mentioned. The only thing left then that a true hollow body can give you that you might want would be the magic of a tuneful sound board.
The reason serious hollow body guitars costing thousands are still made, in spite of what I wrote about no longer NEEDING them because of contemporary amps, is because you can still achieve really amazing, and subtle tones by using a great piece of wood and sculpting it to work as a beautifully singing soundboard, and then carefully, painstakingly bracing it to resist vibrations and dampen feedback.
You simply aren't going to get that from a Joe Pass Epi.
The Joe Pass model has a laminated sound board that sounds completely uninteresting (strum it when it's not plugged in and decide for yourself). It's mass produced, which means that any buzzing or uneven glue drying hasn't been carefully tended to, and will only add to your feedback woes as you turn the instrument up in ways that would never matter with a solid body, semi solid body, or narrow chamber guitar.
All your going to get is a hollow box with a laminated sound board that will LOOK like a more expensive guitar, but will sound kind of blah at low levels (not bad... just not any more interesting than a lot of other less expensive humbucker guitars), and feedback badly if you approach the middle volume setting on your amp.
So, my point is to steer clear of the Joe Pass because it's a design that just can't be executed well without careful building, and the usual costs that are associated with carefully built instruments.
Narrow chamber guitars, solid body and semi-hollow guitars, on the other hand(s?) are less dependent on the physical properties of their build, or sound board, or wood. There the sound quality is largely determined by the qualities of the pick ups, and the amp you use. As a result the sound of these guitars isn't likely to vary as much based on the WAY it was built, or the wood it was built from. You are far more likely to find a mass produced guitar with one of these designs that still kicks even if it's cheap.
For a full on hollow body electric, however, my personal experience has been that there can be no cutting corners. You either can afford a carefully built one where the soundboard is contributing something to the tone, and it's been carefully braced against feedback, or you're throwing money at a shape and design that will add nothing to your sound, and probably only add to your headaches. (Though it will look cool.)
Once again, since the casino and the dot aren't wide chamber hollow bodies they aren't likely to give you the same sort of poor return on your investment that I got from my Joe Pass Epiphone when I owned one a few years ago.
Anyway, Good luck... and of course... play whatever you are thinking of buying FIRST, and then make up your own mind regardless of what anyone else says, including me.
After all, it's going to be your guitar.
ON this subjest, I recently bought a Gretsch Brian Setzer Hot Rod, cos I liked it, without knowing any of the above information. I always thoguht they weree over-priced but maybe they are built well and need to be that expensive.
It is a full hollow-body with a floating top, whichI think is maple, though I need to check on that.
Unplugged it has a nicec acoustic sound, what you would expect from a shallow body and electric strings. Plugged in I find I can turn it up and ue a lot of gain without too much feedback, unlesss I m diretly facing the map, in which case it takes off like a jetplane.
I am interested in what comments you guys have on this guitar. I bought it as a cheaper alternative to the Taylor T5 thinline, which was what I really wanted, adn my wife liked teh ornamental value.
As an after thoguht, I remember trying teh "Aniversary" version of a gretsch, which is the el cheapo version, and I thought it was a complete dog, whcih confused me, becasue ostensibly it was the same type of guitar, made in Korea rather than Japan. I'm thinking you gutys have just cleared up that littel mystery for me. It was a dog !!
Anyway, a cheap solid body / semi hollow can kick. A full size hollow body isn't worth the ducats unless it's been built carefully, and that tends to cost a fortune.
I am definitely steering away from the Joe Pass now. As I did love the neck and playability of the guitar, I didnt hear it with any volume on the amp I was noodling through.
I guess I'll hit Guitar Center or Sam Ash this weekend and try the Dot & Sheraton. I do love the sound of the semi-hollows too. My problem still is the fact that I cant find a lefty to try out anywhere here. I'll have to try the righty and special order the lefty...I'll check their return policy, of course.
thnaks again!
Yes, this is exactly how the Setzer feels to play. I really appreciate you taking the time to pass (PUN) on your experience. I have learnt a lot from reading these comments. I am feeling that I was a bit lucky with my buy, as I was really pretty ignorant.
BTW, I love your policy of never selling anything. After foolishly selling my Mesa rectifier recently, I decided on the same policy. Don't sell anyhing unless you really really hate it.