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micrphones

ExodusExodus Posts: 212
edited January 2005 in Musicians and Gearheads
Hey all,

is there a microphone that I could use for miking my amp and using for vocals? I willing to spend around 200-235 dollars. Any suggestions?
Between the conception and the creation

Between the emotion and the response

Falls the shadow.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Simplest choice:

    Shure SM57, $90.

    Choice 2:

    Shure SM58, $100.

    Choice 3:

    Shure Beta 57, $140.

    Choice 4:

    Shure Beta 58, $160.

    These are all dynamic mics. If you want mics for live vocals, any of these would be appropriate (as well as live guitar mics). You could also look at the Audix OM-7 ($230), the mic Eddie uses live.

    For recording, look at the Rode NT1-A ($200). It's a large-diaphram condenser mic, has better fidelity and transient response than a dynamic, but doesn't work as well live (feedback).
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • MissYouAllDayMissYouAllDay Posts: 939
    Ok.

    So that eddie mic that is 230, what makes it 230? Why is sooo much more expensive than the shure beta 58?

    Are those live mics decent as recording mics? What is the drawback to uzing the shure 58 for recording?

    Thanks for some ideas exausted
    I miss you already, I miss you always
    I miss you already, I miss you all day
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    MissYouAllDay wrote:
    So that eddie mic that is 230, what makes it 230? Why is sooo much more expensive than the shure beta 58?

    Are those live mics decent as recording mics? What is the drawback to uzing the shure 58 for recording?


    The OM7 has better feedback rejection in live settings, and does have a different (not necessarily better) frequency response. It also has a radical new design that likely cost a lot to develop and manufacture.

    Keep in mind, there are a lot of mics out there that range greatly in price. A lot of folks are using a Neumann KMS105 vocal condenser, others are using the SM86 and SM87 and Beta 87 vocal condensers by Shure... the Neumann costs $600, the Shure condensers cost $250-350. And yet, for some reason, there are lead vocalists (Tom Petty and Les Claypool among them) who prefer the sound of an $80 SM57.

    I also used to work with a local studio that had a nice selection of recording condenser mics, but they were using a Beta 58 to record vocals with on a lot of punk-core-metal stuff they were doing.

    Ultimately, different mics do different things, and that doesn't mean one mic is better than another, it just means it does some things more and some things less, you have to decide what works for you.

    As far as recording, the drawback of using a 58 is transient response and clarity. A 58 generally has a fairly warm, present tone, but is lacking in the highs (typically referred to as "breath" in recording terms). If you were doing anything that involved screaming, punk-style stuff, nu metal, etc. then a 58 is great. However, if you wanted a really natural, open-sounding mic, a condenser is the way to go.

    I still maintain that the best single mic to own is a Shure SM57. It's very reliable, lasts forever, sounds decent on almost everything. It's still the #1 mic choice for studio snare drum, and is among the most popular for studio electric guitar. Another interesting fact is that the SM57 and SM58 use the same mic capsule (electronics), the only difference between the two is that the SM58 has a pop-filter ball screen. Same between the Beta 56, Beta 57, and Beta 58. So keep that in mind, as well.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • MissYouAllDayMissYouAllDay Posts: 939
    Well I would be recording vocals and electric and acoustic guitar to put overtop of a drum loop. Maybe a machine. If the beta 58 will be good (enable me to produce a fairly professional sounding recording) for all 3 of these then I might go with it because of its reputation. Any idea how the Om7 would do for recording on all fronts? Any better than the 58 you figure?

    My music ranges from classic punk rock (like fast riffs made up of mid power chords on the low e and a strings) to more ambient sounding elliot smith or later pearl jam type stuff. I need to take that into consideration when choosing a mic. I havea pretty limited mid range voice.

    I play through a Hiwatt so even my punkier or more heavy siounding riffs still have that brightness rockin sound to them. Kinda like the hives I guess.

    Thanks for any help.
    I miss you already, I miss you always
    I miss you already, I miss you all day
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Hey Mig, any thoughts on Ribbon mics?

    I want one.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • thingmaker88thingmaker88 Posts: 33
    I have had a sm57 for about 4 years now and it is great!!!!
    It's really great when your in a limo you can put your head to the window and look out at all the homeless people-E.V.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    I'd get a 57 first, and then down the road look at a better vocal mic. The 57 is the default mic for guitar amps. You could use the 57 for both for a while, then get like a Rode NT1-A or a MXL (condensers, you would need phantom power). But I still say, an SM57 is the best single mic in the world.

    The Beta 58 will be nice and bright, and would work well on both vocals and guitar. It is an excellent mic, but you can get a Beta 57 for about $10 cheaper, and it's virtually the same mic.

    I've never tried any of the Audix OM-series mics on guitar amps, so I can't say how they'd work. However, I'd imagine they'd be alright. An OM-5 or OM-7 would be great (I don't really care for the OM-3).

    Paco - Ribbons are great mics, but they're fairly fragile. They are great on a guitar amp, and really fit certain vocalists really well. I've also heard great results with them used as drum overheads. I will probably get one or two of them (likely an RCA copy) in the next two years.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • MissYouAllDayMissYouAllDay Posts: 939
    Hey MIG, Thanks for the advice. I will go with the beta 58 though cause I look at it the other way. Same mic slightly better. I can not rent a couple movies and make up the difference. I think the 58 should be great, and when things get to that stage it will be a great live mic I hear. The list of artists that use it are impressive. Thanks for all this help deciding. I hope the mic captures the tone of my guitar that I payed so much and practiced so hard to create :)
    I miss you already, I miss you always
    I miss you already, I miss you all day
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    MissYouAllDay wrote:
    Hey MIG, Thanks for the advice. I will go with the beta 58 though cause I look at it the other way. Same mic slightly better. I can not rent a couple movies and make up the difference. I think the 58 should be great, and when things get to that stage it will be a great live mic I hear. The list of artists that use it are impressive. Thanks for all this help deciding. I hope the mic captures the tone of my guitar that I payed so much and practiced so hard to create :)


    Well, what the mic can't do, a little EQ will fix. It'll be more than adequate, trust me on that.

    Then, when you switch it to your "live mic," you can go get a decent condenser, and better yet, know how to use it!
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • nailz100nailz100 Posts: 1,176
    In my opinion, being a vocalist and not a sound engineer...I would consider getting a different mic for each. My choices would be (in your price range) an SM57 for your guitar and a Beta 58 for you voice (that is what I use, and I've never found a better sounding mic for the style I play and for my voice...and believe me, I've tried a LOT of microphones)

    Obviously when I record I use a way more pricy tube mic, but for live applications and an awesome mic for the price, I would get a beta 58
    Only with our eyes closed can we truly see
  • ExodusExodus Posts: 212
    what kind of mike is best for micin and amp for live performance to make it louder?
    Between the conception and the creation

    Between the emotion and the response

    Falls the shadow.
  • nailz100nailz100 Posts: 1,176
    MIG is probably the best one to ask about that.... Personally I would probably say a Sennheiser 421 or a Shure SM57, I would also add that alot (most) of it is probably based on the amp.
    Only with our eyes closed can we truly see
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Exodus wrote:
    what kind of mike is best for micin and amp for live performance to make it louder?


    The Shure SM 57 is pretty much the industry standard
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/270102/

    these look pretty badass too though I haven't tried them yet.

    the E609 Sennheiser
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/276668/
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • nailz100nailz100 Posts: 1,176
    "Ultimately, different mics do different things, and that doesn't mean one mic is better than another, it just means it does some things more and some things less, you have to decide what works for you."

    Bang the F*k on. I tried lots of different mics and even broke a few and found by trial and error that the beta 58 was the mic for me. I found it to be the best mic suited to my voice and style of music, its built like a tank (believe me, I've dropped it), and it works the best in live application....again, all this is only my opinion...I'm not trying to preach to you, but I know what I like

    Yeah Paco, but does it actually make the amp louder? If you ask me I'd say the volume is more a quality of the amp than the mic. Sure you are going to get a different sound with different mics,..and the Beta 58 and OM7 aren't going to put out as much volume as the regular 58 (in my opinion)...unless you are putting the mic up close...the "higher gain before feedback" causes the volume to drop away by quite a bit the further away you are.
    Only with our eyes closed can we truly see
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    nailz100 wrote:
    "Ultimately, different mics do different things, and that doesn't mean one mic is better than another, it just means it does some things more and some things less, you have to decide what works for you."

    Bang the F*k on. I tried lots of different mics and even broke a few and found by trial and error that the beta 58 was the mic for me. I found it to be the best mic suited to my voice and style of music, its built like a tank (believe me, I've dropped it), and it works the best in live application....again, all this is only my opinion...I'm not trying to preach to you, but I know what I like

    Yeah Paco, but does it actually make the amp louder? If you ask me I'd say the volume is more a quality of the amp than the mic. Sure you are going to get a different sound with different mics,..and the Beta 58 and OM7 aren't going to put out as much volume as the regular 58 (in my opinion)...unless you are putting the mic up close...the "higher gain before feedback" causes the volume to drop away by quite a bit the further away you are.


    you're right, and the 58 is the other industry standard too. If you buy 2 mics a 57 and a 58 are probably the two you buy.

    I think by louder he just mean't mic'ing in general as in through a PA.

    there's definate differences in placement of the mic, as in on the cone, or off axis...etc.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • All Those YesterdaysAll Those Yesterdays Posts: 2,723
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    The Shure SM 57 is pretty much the industry standard
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/270102/

    these look pretty badass too though I haven't tried them yet.

    the E609 Sennheiser
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/276668/


    We use E609's (black ones not the silvers in the link) in the studio for all close amp micing situations. They seem to produce a closer "what the amp sounds like" tone then other mics we've tried. We have tried the silver E609's, but no thanks (its a special occasion mic). Of course we have sm-57's that sit on the shelf too. I'd use SM's live for amp micing, but thats about it. Its hard to beat the price on SM-57's though. The Black E609's are about 99 bucks.
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  • PintoMusicPintoMusic Posts: 73
    There are alot of artists (eg: Bono, Madonna, Sheryl Crow, etc...) who actually use the SM57 to record vocals in the studio.
    www.PintoMusic.com
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    I really like the E609, too. It's a great, balanced mic built specifically for guitar amps. But I love a 57, and with the right mic placement, it's my favorite overall mic. I really do love a Sennheiser MD421 on a certain type of guitar, especially really full, rich clean tones. Like good jazz guitar. Also works well on a Fender Rhodes piano amp. But, for a similar price, the SM57 and the E609 are the best for live guitar amp mics, and the E609 is more fool-proof (requires less knowledge and messin' around to get a good sound).

    As far as percieved "loudness" from a mic, the closer and more on-axis the mic is with the sound source, the louder it will seem. This is due to a function of directional mics (any mic referred to as "cardiod," "hypercardiod," or "supercardiod") called "proximity effect." The closer the mic is, the more bass and low-mid response it has. If you want a more distant sound, moving the mic back a few feet will do that. Microphone distance really affects how it sounds, unless it's an omni-directional (all directions) microphone.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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