Question about upcoming gig

StickmanJam

So...my friend and I who both play, decided that we're going to tackle some open mic nights coming up soon, as either one of us has yet to play out. We're both excited, and we're going to acoustic to start out.

Problem is, when it comes to two guys playing songs acoustically, I don't want both of us up there both strumming the same exact chords. Isn't there techniques on harmonizing, or ways to make the sound more full and creative, besides the both of us playing along to the same exact chords during a cover??

Any help would be appreciated.

We're going to play some covers, and throw in some originals we've begun writing.

keeponrockin

StickmanJam wrote:

So...my friend and I who both play, decided that we're going to tackle some open mic nights coming up soon, as either one of us has yet to play out. We're both excited, and we're going to acoustic to start out.

Problem is, when it comes to two guys playing songs acoustically, I don't want both of us up there both strumming the same exact chords. Isn't there techniques on harmonizing, or ways to make the sound more full and creative, besides the both of us playing along to the same exact chords during a cover??

Any help would be appreciated.

We're going to play some covers, and throw in some originals we've begun writing.

Have one guy capo up, play the same chords but with different inversions (i.e a D chord with a Capo on the 2nd fret sounds like an E, etc...)

StickmanJam

keeponrockin wrote:

Have one guy capo up, play the same chords but with different inversions (i.e a D chord with a Capo on the 2nd fret sounds like an E, etc...)

ok, this is where I have another question. The use of the capo changes the tune of the guitar, so if both of us are playing the same chord, one of us with a capo, the other not, wouldn't that put us out of tune?

And if not, what are the basic rules or guidelines to one guy capo'ing up. And can you clarify what you mean by different inversions?

thanks

Novawind

Inversion just means you stack the notes differently. For example a D chord could be D-F#-A or A-D-F#. By capoing up a whole step (+1 note) and playing an C shape, for example, you would get a D chord but it would be inverted (i.e. the notes would be ordered differently).

ianvomsaal

If you play a C-Major chord (032010) it's just C-Major Chord. But if you put a capo on say the 2nd fret, and then play the same C-Major shape it's not a C-Major Chord anymore, it's a D-Major Chord. These two chords won't harmonize well because they're different chords with completely different notes. Example: Each play a C and D chord at the same time without a capo - do they sound good together?? NO.
Sooo, you'll need to learn a few different places to play each chord, and learn to voice chords differently. To harmonize basic chords you'll need to understand the basic notes of each chord and basic triads. C-Major is made up of the notes C-E-G, so if you continue the triad it's C-E-G-B-D-F-A-C. So, which chords can you build with these notes? C-E-G...E-G-B...G-B-D...B-D-F...D-F-A...F-A-C...A-C-E. Study up
Cheers . . .

- Ian

StickmanJam

ianvomsaal wrote:

If you play a C-Major chord (032010) it's just C-Major Chord. But if you put a capo on say the 2nd fret, and then play the same C-Major shape it's not a C-Major Chord anymore, it's a D-Major Chord. These two chords won't harmonize well because they're different chords with completely different notes. Example: Each play a C and D chord at the same time without a capo - do they sound good together?? NO.
Sooo, you'll need to learn a few different places to play each chord, and learn to voice chords differently. To harmonize basic chords you'll need to understand the basic notes of each chord and basic triads. C-Major is made up of the notes C-E-G, so if you continue the triad it's C-E-G-B-D-F-A-C. So, which chords can you build with these notes? C-E-G...E-G-B...G-B-D...B-D-F...D-F-A...F-A-C...A-C-E. Study up
Cheers . . .

- Ian

so basically any three notes from any given major scale forms a triad which can be harmonized with the root chord?

ianvomsaal

StickmanJam wrote:

so basically any three notes from any given major scale forms a triad which can be harmonized with the root chord?

some sound better than others, but basically yes - I like using 7ths

ccpa

This question is exactly what makes mike and stone sound so good and pearl jams delivery of the songs being played.

The 'chords' (roots) are usually the same but the voicings are different. The chords are played on different places on the neck - as Ian suggested - ala alive, even flow, RIFW and better man.

You can also add variation via different strumming patterns, how hard you play, or arpeggios ala wishlist.

Another way is via EQ, different brand guitars or adding effects (but not so much acoustic). Or one plays acoustic, one plays electric (ala daughter).

You don't (can't) play the same thing or else you will drown each other out.

Are you both singing? Add variation by taking turns on who is backing who - ala whale song!

There are many ways to do it. Pretend you are the listener and sitting in the audience.

Onstage, you are an entertainer first, musician second.

Go listen to PJ songs for ideas and write down how the structures of the songs are different or what is it about the song that you like.

StuffnJunk

DON'T both strum the same chords at the same time...although playing the chords higher up or with a capo does help make it different....but be careful not to step on each others toes rhythmically

if one guy is strumming, the other should arpeggiate (spelling) - pick the notes of the chords one at a time....that helps to differentiate between the two guitars

so if my friends is strumming G, C, D open chords, i'll use G at the 10th fret, C at the 8th fret, and D at the 10th fret, and pick the chords one note at a time...or even picking the same open chords the other guy is strumming will work

thats just one of many ways to mix it up with 2 guitars

ianvomsaal

StickmanJam wrote:

so...when you say u like using 7ths, are you referring to using the 7th note of the scale as the root, or base not of the triad your using?
If not, than could you please explain that.
I apologize for my ignorance on this topic I've clearly overlooked.

apologies for not being clearer - when i said i like using a 7th i meant adding a 7th to my main chord.
instead of using c-major i’d play c7 (c-e-g-b). personally i prefer using the 4th to harmonize with - i’ll
typically harmonize a c-major chord (for me maybe a c-major7) with the 4th, being an f-major chord.

StickmanJam wrote:

Thanks a lot Ian. And so..say in a cover song like the joker by Steve Miller, where the main progression is G, C, D, if one guitarist played just those chords, and say the other played the fourths of each of those chords, that would be a good start as far as harmonizing?

Thanks for all your help.

-John

I'd tell you to maybe start by playing the same chords with different voicings in differents places
on the neck, and then eventually graduate to harmonizing once you get the hang of it. Save the
harmonizing for vocals since it'll sound better that way - you don't always want to harmonize chords
anyway - just a different voicing of the same chord is always the best way to start. One guy plays
first position G(320033), C(X32010), D(XX0232), while the other guy plays G(XX0787), C(XX,10,988),
D(X,0,0,11,10,10), or whatever - it's up to you to choose.


- Ian

ccpa

What songs are you covering? Perhaps we can give you more direct ideas if that is what you are looking for.

StickmanJam

ccpa wrote:

What songs are you covering? Perhaps we can give you more direct ideas if that is what you are looking for.

only a few, we were looking at the joker by steve miller band, maybe loving cup by the stones, perhaps folsom prison blues and maybe something else, not really sure.

mfc2006

another thought would be to have one of you play the vocal melody line. kind of "mirror" it on the guitar.

lucylespian

Arpeggios are a good suggestion.
Also one guy strums, the other plays more percussively, to give a drum like feel to teh line

Gardenparty

You can also just check out the tabs for the song if you have trouble picking it apart by ear (if online resource is bad go thumb trough the transcrit book at guitar center). I'm sure a lot the stuff you want to play will have multiple guitar parts being played simultaneously

What part of Connecticut are you in?

StickmanJam

Gardenparty wrote:

You can also just check out the tabs for the song if you have trouble picking it apart by ear (if online resource is bad go thumb trough the transcrit book at guitar center). I'm sure a lot the stuff you want to play will have multiple guitar parts being played simultaneously

What part of Connecticut are you in?

Wallingford, its in New Haven county.

Gardenparty

StickmanJam wrote:

Wallingford, its in New Haven county.

Thats awesome! graduated from Lyman hall in '97. I'll be back in town for the holidays so if you end up playing an open Mic round that time post the date

We used to do a lot of open Mics at the Old Dublin. Paul, the owner, is a stand up guy. have you checked that bar out?

-Jeff

StickmanJam

Gardenparty wrote:

Thats awesome! graduated from Lyman hall in '97. I'll be back in town for the holidays so if you end up playing an open Mic round that time post the date

We used to do a lot of open Mics at the Old Dublin. Paul, the owner, is a stand up guy. have you checked that bar out?

-Jeff

Hahaa, that's so funny. Me and my friend who are going to being doing this ere actually at the Dublin last Fri and Sat nite and watch Paul and his friend play. Wasn't sure if they let others have little gigs there or not, I'll have to check it out. I'd loooove to do it there, perfect crowd for the kind of music we want to cover and play.

We're just doing a acoustic duo type thing, is that the sort of thing you guys did there?

btw, I'm also an LH graduate of '03. What a small world.

Gardenparty

StickmanJam wrote:

Hahaa, that's so funny. Me and my friend who are going to being doing this ere actually at the Dublin last Fri and Sat nite and watch Paul and his friend play. Wasn't sure if they let others have little gigs there or not, I'll have to check it out. I'd loooove to do it there, perfect crowd for the kind of music we want to cover and play.

We're just doing a acoustic duo type thing, is that the sort of thing you guys did there?

btw, I'm also an LH graduate of '03. What a small world.

Yeah, for the most part. It's been 6 years since I left town but he used to run an open mic type thing on Tuesdays, if I remember correct. Regardless, when you feel you're ready just let him know you'd be interested in playing a couple of songs whenever you can, even before or after another band. I'm almost positive he'd let you play some music.

Looking forward to having a few pints and playing some darts there when i get back for the holidays! ahh the comforts of home, haha

hodge

what me and my friend do is

i play a bit more clean but a touch of gain
and he plays a lot more distorted

stuff you can do is arpeggiate through a chord while one strums or just have the more overdriven guitar strum the chord once for a measure, etc.

basically you guys should first establish your own sound/tone and then try and make sure it compliments eachother's

one more thing is to have one guy play open position Chords and the other can play in barre form

i almost always play an E at the 7th fret unless it really sounds better in open form