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How many watts are needed?

Lukin_ozLukin_oz Posts: 257
edited May 2004 in Musicians and Gearheads
Just a quick question, but its always confused me about how many watts are needed for gigging. I remember I brought a 50 W combo and they said it would'nt be enough... but it was... especially if the amps were miked. So how much is needed? In both a combo and head...
Those who dance are called insane by those who dont hear the music
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  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by Lukin_oz
    Just a quick question, but its always confused me about how many watts are needed for gigging. I remember I brought a 50 W combo and they said it would be enough... but it was... especially if the amps were miked. So how much is needed? In both a combo and head...


    It's a misconception. I would be giging with an 18 watt combo and it's plenty for most bars. especially if I mic it.

    How big is the largest space you will be playing?

    Chances are 20 to 50 watts is all you need. The idea is that you can crank the amp up to it's optimal volume levels ( getting the power and preamp tubes singing) so your tone will be it's best.

    It's strictly a tone thing. Choose an amp that is good for your sound. Worry about how to hear it at the gig later. I know lots of people that gig with 22 watt Fender Deluxes and Vox AC 30's as well as Orange AD 30's. none are over 30 watts and all are more than ample for most venues in Atlanta.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Lukin_ozLukin_oz Posts: 257
    Im only talking small venues... Im looking at a Marshall JTM 60 with the extension speaker. Its a 60w valve... 2 x 12 plus the extansion 2 x 12... Ive been reading some of the reviews though and it seems they may be a little hig maintainance with the valves heating up etc... anyone got any ideas on these amps?
    Those who dance are called insane by those who dont hear the music
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by Lukin_oz
    Im only talking small venues... Im looking at a Marshall JTM 60 with the extension speaker. Its a 60w valve... 2 x 12 plus the extansion 2 x 12... Ive been reading some of the reviews though and it seems they may be a little hig maintainance with the valves heating up etc... anyone got any ideas on these amps?


    Is it a JTM or a TSL 60? That's more than ample. If you get a little clip fan and clip it on your amp stand or something and blow it towards the tubes on your amp you will extend the life of your tubes in that or any amplifier. The cooler you can keep the tubes while operating the longer they will last. You should be fine for a year or so playing everynight as long as you keep the fan on it.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • House53House53 Posts: 1,276
    60 watts and 412s will be plenty loud for a "small" club and close to too much power for a bar.

    It also depends on if you need super clean tones at higher volumes, then, higher wattage may be needed.

    I play an 18 watt head with a 212 cabinet... it is plenty for any place we play...

    We play small to big bars and small to medium clubs as well... if the place is big enough to need a 412 they will likely have a sound guy and then everything will be miked.

    you will have enough power for sure with that setup.

    The Marshall has a master volume, so you could utilize that.

    Those models of Marshall have their "sound" typically from the preamp anyways.
    There's No Code.
  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    well stone and mike used the 30 watt savage amps so...
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by 62strat
    well stone and mike used the 30 watt savage amps so...


    Nay, Stone and Mike used, 30 watt Trentinos.

    The Savage is a 50 watt.



    Wattage is irrelavant unless you have too much Lukin Oz.


    If you prefer the sound of pre amp distortion (Marshall DSL's and TSL's) or Mesa Boogie. You'll be ok with going with those.

    If you prefer more power tube overdrive you'll prefer a smaller amp so you can crank it up.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • All Those YesterdaysAll Those Yesterdays Posts: 2,723
    If your using a tube amp. 50 watts is more than enough. If its a big show it will be mic'd anyway. If your in smaller bars, thats when an amp like Peaveys Classic 30 is perfect (stone used a couple of those on the 2000 tour). If your going solid state, without a mic you with only a 50 watt amp, you will be pushing the amp pretty hard to be heard. Especially if you have a loud drummer. Stick with tube!
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  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    Nay, Stone and Mike used, 30 watt Trentinos.

    The Savage is a 50 watt.



    Wattage is irrelavant unless you have too much Lukin Oz.


    If you prefer the sound of pre amp distortion (Marshall DSL's and TSL's) or Mesa Boogie. You'll be ok with going with those.

    If you prefer more power tube overdrive you'll prefer a smaller amp so you can crank it up.

    mus tyou nitpick? just kidding

    they make 30 watt savages as well.


    my amp is like 120 watts...im way too fucking loud, well ic an obviosuly turn down..but i will NEVER have that amp cranked...
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by 62strat
    mus tyou nitpick? just kidding

    they make 30 watt savages as well.


    my amp is like 120 watts...im way too fucking loud, well ic an obviosuly turn down..but i will NEVER have that amp cranked...


    indeed they do. 120 watts.... 5150? That amp will rip your head off.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    mines the twin reverb 2

    so loud..but wow...that thing is the best sounding amp ive ever been a part of...
  • HoorayForHumansHoorayForHumans Posts: 151
    50 watts tube is more than enough..
    especially if you're playing club shows.
    this heart's on fire
  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    50 Watts of tube amp is plenty unless you're in a stadium. If you're playing clean, 50 is good, but if you want to crank it for leads, it's usually too much. 50 watts out of a guitar amp is going to shoot out straight from the speakers to the people directly in front of it, but won't disperse well to the sides of the venue.

    If you play in places that are miking your amp, 18 to 30 is plenty, and better, as far as I'm concerned. You can crank it to get the tubes working, and the PA system will even out the sound better in the room.

    Unless you want to buy my Mesa mark II 160 watt head with six 6L6 tubes. They'll hear that!:eek:
    Be kind, man
    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
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  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by 62strat
    mines the twin reverb 2

    so loud..but wow...that thing is the best sounding amp ive ever been a part of...



    ah so. Very loud and very clean you should be in the market for Bob's "Custom" Mesa Mark 2.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    ah so. Very loud and very clean you should be in the market for Bob's "Custom" Mesa Mark 2.

    Comes with it's own fan! I practically need dry ice on that thing when it's cranked!:)
    Be kind, man
    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
    __________________________________
  • Lukin_ozLukin_oz Posts: 257
    So.... are 60 watt valve amps louder than 60 watt tubes? Also I currently own an AVT 50 with the smaller valve. Will the distortion sound similar on a pure valve amp? Finally if a 60 W amp is also running to an 2 x 12 extension how much extra wattage is being gained? Whats the advantage of the extension?
    Those who dance are called insane by those who dont hear the music
  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    ah so. Very loud and very clean you should be in the market for Bob's "Custom" Mesa Mark 2.


    tell me more about this....pleae:)?
  • mojorison_75mojorison_75 Posts: 157
    This was a big question for me for a while, but I slowly figured it out. I have a 40 watt hotrod deluxe and I've never had a problem with volume. Like everyone has said, most people just mike them anyway. Why spend all that money for an amp you don't really need when there are smaller, more affordable amps that sound great? That's my philosophy anyway.

    If you're playing somewhere large(or even somewhere small) with a full band you're probably going to want to mike anyway. That way you can get the mix right and sound much better as a group.
  • mojorison_75mojorison_75 Posts: 157
    Originally posted by Lukin_oz
    So.... are 60 watt valve amps louder than 60 watt tubes? Also I currently own an AVT 50 with the smaller valve. Will the distortion sound similar on a pure valve amp? Finally if a 60 W amp is also running to an 2 x 12 extension how much extra wattage is being gained? Whats the advantage of the extension?

    Tube watts are definately louder than solid state. Tube amps sound so much better to my ears I can't even compare them. Clean or distorted.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by 62strat
    tell me more about this....pleae:)?


    Bob has (perhaps the only one ever built) A custom (obviously)

    Mesa Mark II. Instead of 4 6L6's it has 6 and a custom installed fan to keep them cool. Aparently it's kill your neighbors tear your head off loud. Obviously very clean and full bodied. I can only imagine it sounds fantastic with pedals in front of it.

    Bob can tell you the history and all. It's pretty interesting really.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by Lukin_oz
    So.... are 60 watt valve amps louder than 60 watt tubes? Also I currently own an AVT 50 with the smaller valve. Will the distortion sound similar on a pure valve amp? Finally if a 60 W amp is also running to an 2 x 12 extension how much extra wattage is being gained? Whats the advantage of the extension?



    The misconseption is watts = volume. Watts = power. More speakers moving more air = more volume.

    The extra extension cab will allow you to move more air making a substantial increase in the sound provided (volume) by those 60 Watts.

    The more wattage you have the cleaner the amps power section will be. Tube (Valve if you're british or aussie) amps are RMS rated at clip while solid state amps are rated at peak.

    Meaning your sixty watt amp is at 60 watts pre breakup. Full out cranked to the hilt (preamp gain and post amp volume on 10 or 11 if you're Spinal Tap) you are actually getting around 120 watts. This is why a 20-50 watt amp is desireable in club gigs.

    An all valve amp will to most ears sound more full, warm, and round than a hybrid this is due to the lovely characteristics of asymetrical power tube clipping. I could show you a graph, but it's better to hear it. The TSL is a cool amp. If you like it go for it.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mojorison_75mojorison_75 Posts: 157
    Mike Watt would say one.
  • Lukin_ozLukin_oz Posts: 257
    Thanks for all the advice guys... ended up getting a TSL 60 2 x 12 combo.... sweet amp. Took it straight to practice and love it. Firsttime Ive ever owned a full valve amp. Such an awesome sound!
    Those who dance are called insane by those who dont hear the music
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by Lukin_oz
    Thanks for all the advice guys... ended up getting a TSL 60 2 x 12 combo.... sweet amp. Took it straight to practice and love it. Firsttime Ive ever owned a full valve amp. Such an awesome sound!



    Excellent, Make sure you get a small fan and blow air onto the tubes. That will keep them cool and they will perform better for you. Hope you enjoy it, that's a great amp.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Lukin_ozLukin_oz Posts: 257
    Just out of curiosty Pacomc79... what is your background in playing? I only ask because I ask for a lot of advice on the board and notice your always ready to give advice, all of which is reliable. So thanks....
    Those who dance are called insane by those who dont hear the music
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    I'm self taught. More of a blues/rock background, For whatever reason I am facinated with gear and how to achieve various tones. I worked at guitar center for a while mainly for the discount and the ability to play around and learn about all sorts of things. The last two years or so I've spent essentially researching all I could about my interests namely guitar equipment and mainly the stuff you can't buy at the larger music stores. I listen to endless sound clips, read countless documents and play everything I can find. Essentially I spend more time doing that than I do actually writing and playing which maybe that's odd but that's kind of the way I am. I've played a few gigs but mainly, if I could just hang out and practice or play at someones house with 4 or 5 folks every other night, I'd be overjoyed, currently I'm bandless and just doing some light recording, none is really brilliant but hey it's a hobby right?
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Lukin_ozLukin_oz Posts: 257
    I agree... so many of my older friends i bump into and they say... 'you still doin that?'. They dont realise its not a career or way out of work but something your drawn too, regardless of the rewards. Thing is ive been playing for almost 10 years... but i still know so little... I mean I can nail some solos and scales etc. but as far as amps, guitars etc and their individual tones and positives Im still clueless. Thanks for all the advice...
    Those who dance are called insane by those who dont hear the music
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by Lukin_oz
    I agree... so many of my older friends i bump into and they say... 'you still doin that?'. They dont realise its not a career or way out of work but something your drawn too, regardless of the rewards. Thing is ive been playing for almost 10 years... but i still know so little... I mean I can nail some solos and scales etc. but as far as amps, guitars etc and their individual tones and positives Im still clueless. Thanks for all the advice...



    Happy to help, I really enjoy helping actually. Hopefully someday I can do technical music journalism or something.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Lukin_ozLukin_oz Posts: 257
    You should... its very hard for an inexperienced player to go into a store and feel comfortable asking questions and stuff regarding equipment. I mean who knows where to start?
    Those who dance are called insane by those who dont hear the music
  • YossarianYossarian Posts: 7
    30 watts work just fine for me.

    Orange AD30TCH w/ Orange 4x12
    ...that what you fear the most could meet you half way...
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by Yossarian
    30 watts work just fine for me.

    Orange AD30TCH w/ Orange 4x12



    good choice.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
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