Ticketmaster “Premium Ticket” SCAM

2

Comments

  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,467
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,467
    You don't have to be savvy to take responsibility for understanding what you just spent your money on 
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,448
    edited October 15
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
     
    I agree, it's deceptive; but that doesn't necessarily mean someone got scammed.
  • KJ228171KJ228171 Posts: 43
    As if it was not already known. The tickets that Ticketmaster list as “Pearl Jam Premium Tickets” or for any band who goes through Ticketmaster, for that matter, is a scam. Not only that, to make matters worse, according to Robert Smith of the Cure,  the BANDS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO OPT OUT OF THIS. Hopefully going forward Pearl Jam and other artists who would like to keep “Fans” at heart see this and consider it in the future

    https://www.nj.com/entertainment/2024/10/why-rock-band-dumped-ticketmasters-dynamic-pricing-we-dont-need-to-make-all-this-money.html
    MikeDigs said:
    For the Inglewood Forum, there was nothing "premium" about the seats.
    Just a "premium" price.  Seems pretty scam-y to me.
    I guess any business can add the word "premium" to any product and upcharge it, even if it's not really premium.
    Fuck Ticketmaster

    People aren't going to like to hear it but it was PJ that made Ticketmaster rename "Official Platinum" to "Pearl Jam Premium". It was always dynamic pricing by a different name and the band could have opted out of at anytime.


  • MikeDigsMikeDigs Posts: 1,493
    edited October 15
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    Interesting take since you used the same price that I paid, but then you described a completely different situation, as I never thought that.  Really weird, since I already described my issue.  I knew I bought a concert ticket, and I knew where the seat was located.  With a "Premium" tag I was surprised how shitty the seats actually were, and that our view was blocked.

    I DO think it's reasonable to expect that a concert ticket, listed with a "Premium" tag, would at the very least, come with unobstructed views of the stage. 
    Post edited by MikeDigs on
    I'm spinning, oh-oh-oh I'm spinning
  • edoconedocon Posts: 332
    The potential scam here is that in many cases (disregarding NY and IL state laws) you don't "own" the Premium tickets after purchasing them. You are not free to sell them at any price or by any means other than to relist them on TM at the *exact* price you paid. So if you purchase Premium tickets and for some reason cannot attend the show, TM can sell tickets at a lower Premium price than you paid (for similar seats/section) and you cannot lower your price to compete with TM. In effect TM algorithms will ruthlessly undercut your resell attempt and you have no recourse to recover *any* of your costs.
  • SHZASHZA Posts: 3,933
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    During the checkout process with the clock ticking it can be tough to tell what's included. I almost got duped during the Oasis sale last week. The first thing I carted seemed like the standard GA ticket and was about $400. I almost bought it because once it was in the cart the full description wasn't available, and if I had taken the time to read through the fine print on the map page someone else would have carted it. I ultimately passed and went back and got the real standard price which was about $250.

    By "more" I'm just saying that the seats themselves aren't even "better" than standard. There's no way to know during an initial sale that standard seats in the same row or better will be released for $500 less. The Platinum buyer paid $800 and the person in the row in front of them was only charged $300 for the identical (actually better) product. I struggle to see how that's not a scam.
  • MikeDigsMikeDigs Posts: 1,493
    edited October 15
    SHZA said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    During the checkout process with the clock ticking it can be tough to tell what's included. I almost got duped during the Oasis sale last week. The first thing I carted seemed like the standard GA ticket and was about $400. I almost bought it because once it was in the cart the full description wasn't available, and if I had taken the time to read through the fine print on the map page someone else would have carted it. I ultimately passed and went back and got the real standard price which was about $250.

    By "more" I'm just saying that the seats themselves aren't even "better" than standard. There's no way to know during an initial sale that standard seats in the same row or better will be released for $500 less. The Platinum buyer paid $800 and the person in the row in front of them was only charged $300 for the identical (actually better) product. I struggle to see how that's not a scam.
    Exactly this.  Now that I'm aware of how the pricing really works, I will adjust my buying process moving forward.

    StubHub or Vivid Seats is the way to go.
    Post edited by MikeDigs on
    I'm spinning, oh-oh-oh I'm spinning
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,528
    MikeDigs said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    Interesting take since you used the same price that I paid, but then you described a completely different situation, as I never thought that.  Really weird, since I already described my issue.  I knew I bought a concert ticket, and I knew where the seat was located.  With a "Premium" tag I was surprised how shitty the seats actually were, and that our view was blocked.

    I DO think it's reasonable to expect that a concert ticket, listed with a "Premium" tag, would at the very least, come with unobstructed views of the stage. 
    The scam of premium pricing is not being able to resell for less than the price you paid. I understand not letting people scalp for more, but not being able to undersell seems like a total fu move.
  • njhaley1njhaley1 Posts: 792
    pjhawks said:
    MikeDigs said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    Interesting take since you used the same price that I paid, but then you described a completely different situation, as I never thought that.  Really weird, since I already described my issue.  I knew I bought a concert ticket, and I knew where the seat was located.  With a "Premium" tag I was surprised how shitty the seats actually were, and that our view was blocked.

    I DO think it's reasonable to expect that a concert ticket, listed with a "Premium" tag, would at the very least, come with unobstructed views of the stage. 
    The scam of premium pricing is not being able to resell for less than the price you paid. I understand not letting people scalp for more, but not being able to undersell seems like a total fu move.
    It's to discourage them from buying them unless they are very certain they or a "representative" will be at the show.

    The hope is that speculators who can't unload them face a higher price than they would under typical situations. 
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,528
    njhaley1 said:
    pjhawks said:
    MikeDigs said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    Interesting take since you used the same price that I paid, but then you described a completely different situation, as I never thought that.  Really weird, since I already described my issue.  I knew I bought a concert ticket, and I knew where the seat was located.  With a "Premium" tag I was surprised how shitty the seats actually were, and that our view was blocked.

    I DO think it's reasonable to expect that a concert ticket, listed with a "Premium" tag, would at the very least, come with unobstructed views of the stage. 
    The scam of premium pricing is not being able to resell for less than the price you paid. I understand not letting people scalp for more, but not being able to undersell seems like a total fu move.
    It's to discourage them from buying them unless they are very certain they or a "representative" will be at the show.

    The hope is that speculators who can't unload them face a higher price than they would under typical situations. 
     ok, not being able to transfer tickets AND not undersell for cost is a scam.  life happens sometimes, and sticking people with premium tickets because something intervened months later and not letting them transfer or sell for less is an fu move.  and I am on board with the non-transfer part of that.  to me that works to minimize scalping. 
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,448
    edited October 15
    SHZA said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    During the checkout process with the clock ticking it can be tough to tell what's included. I almost got duped during the Oasis sale last week. The first thing I carted seemed like the standard GA ticket and was about $400. I almost bought it because once it was in the cart the full description wasn't available, and if I had taken the time to read through the fine print on the map page someone else would have carted it. I ultimately passed and went back and got the real standard price which was about $250.

    By "more" I'm just saying that the seats themselves aren't even "better" than standard. There's no way to know during an initial sale that standard seats in the same row or better will be released for $500 less. The Platinum buyer paid $800 and the person in the row in front of them was only charged $300 for the identical (actually better) product. I struggle to see how that's not a scam.
    It’s not a scam; the pricing is market based and subject to change. This isn’t undisclosed information. 
    Post edited by Merkin Baller on
  • njhaley1njhaley1 Posts: 792
    pjhawks said:
    njhaley1 said:
    pjhawks said:
    MikeDigs said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    Interesting take since you used the same price that I paid, but then you described a completely different situation, as I never thought that.  Really weird, since I already described my issue.  I knew I bought a concert ticket, and I knew where the seat was located.  With a "Premium" tag I was surprised how shitty the seats actually were, and that our view was blocked.

    I DO think it's reasonable to expect that a concert ticket, listed with a "Premium" tag, would at the very least, come with unobstructed views of the stage. 
    The scam of premium pricing is not being able to resell for less than the price you paid. I understand not letting people scalp for more, but not being able to undersell seems like a total fu move.
    It's to discourage them from buying them unless they are very certain they or a "representative" will be at the show.

    The hope is that speculators who can't unload them face a higher price than they would under typical situations. 
     ok, not being able to transfer tickets AND not undersell for cost is a scam.  life happens sometimes, and sticking people with premium tickets because something intervened months later and not letting them transfer or sell for less is an fu move.  and I am on board with the non-transfer part of that.  to me that works to minimize scalping. 
    I agree, but I believe that is the reasoning.
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,448
    pjhawks said:
    njhaley1 said:
    pjhawks said:
    MikeDigs said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    Interesting take since you used the same price that I paid, but then you described a completely different situation, as I never thought that.  Really weird, since I already described my issue.  I knew I bought a concert ticket, and I knew where the seat was located.  With a "Premium" tag I was surprised how shitty the seats actually were, and that our view was blocked.

    I DO think it's reasonable to expect that a concert ticket, listed with a "Premium" tag, would at the very least, come with unobstructed views of the stage. 
    The scam of premium pricing is not being able to resell for less than the price you paid. I understand not letting people scalp for more, but not being able to undersell seems like a total fu move.
    It's to discourage them from buying them unless they are very certain they or a "representative" will be at the show.

    The hope is that speculators who can't unload them face a higher price than they would under typical situations. 
     ok, not being able to transfer tickets AND not undersell for cost is a scam.  life happens sometimes, and sticking people with premium tickets because something intervened months later and not letting them transfer or sell for less is an fu move.  and I am on board with the non-transfer part of that.  to me that works to minimize scalping. 
    Agreed… the inability to undersell is bullshit. 
  • Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 13,133
    ZoSoTim said:
    As someone without an unlimited bank account I hate the premium pricing but I can also see why it’s used. Why should scalpers make more money off ticket sales than the actual artists?

    This. TM is controlling the sale of every single ticket by algorithm and capturing the secondary market revenue. The best seats never get released to the public, and as we have seen, not even released to the 10C. TM is using technology to squeeze the most dollars out of all the best, and sometimes mediocre, seats. Why should Stubhub, Seatgeek et. al. make MILLIONS off a band without having any connection to the band? That is why prices are higher and dynamic pricing exists. That is TM's value proposition to the artists and it is a win win for the artists and TM. I can't blame a band for saying yes when they deserve that revenue more than the resellers. Good for Robert Smith, but he is leaving big money on the table and feeding revenue to the secondary market. The bigger issue is the lack of competition for TM and the fact that they can charge any prices and fees they like without recourse. It is a textbook monopoly and that is how and why consumers are getting screwed.
  • Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 13,133
    pjhawks said:
    MikeDigs said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    Interesting take since you used the same price that I paid, but then you described a completely different situation, as I never thought that.  Really weird, since I already described my issue.  I knew I bought a concert ticket, and I knew where the seat was located.  With a "Premium" tag I was surprised how shitty the seats actually were, and that our view was blocked.

    I DO think it's reasonable to expect that a concert ticket, listed with a "Premium" tag, would at the very least, come with unobstructed views of the stage. 
    The scam of premium pricing is not being able to resell for less than the price you paid. I understand not letting people scalp for more, but not being able to undersell seems like a total fu move.

    That is a restriction of trade and another competitive advantage of a monopoly. Consumers are getting screwed every which way with Ticketmaster. They also make it difficult to sell and actually get your refunds with the resale cap and local bank account requirement. Until someone does something about the Ticketmaster monopoly the consumers will continue to be taken advantage of. Call it platinum, call it premium, what is that saying about putting lipstick on a pig? That is the current state.
  • SHZASHZA Posts: 3,933
    Get_Right said:
    ZoSoTim said:
    As someone without an unlimited bank account I hate the premium pricing but I can also see why it’s used. Why should scalpers make more money off ticket sales than the actual artists?

    This. TM is controlling the sale of every single ticket by algorithm and capturing the secondary market revenue. The best seats never get released to the public, and as we have seen, not even released to the 10C. TM is using technology to squeeze the most dollars out of all the best, and sometimes mediocre, seats. Why should Stubhub, Seatgeek et. al. make MILLIONS off a band without having any connection to the band? That is why prices are higher and dynamic pricing exists. That is TM's value proposition to the artists and it is a win win for the artists and TM. I can't blame a band for saying yes when they deserve that revenue more than the resellers. Good for Robert Smith, but he is leaving big money on the table and feeding revenue to the secondary market. The bigger issue is the lack of competition for TM and the fact that they can charge any prices and fees they like without recourse. It is a textbook monopoly and that is how and why consumers are getting screwed.
    It's a contradiction to say they are competing with secondary market sites but yet it's a monopoly. 
  • MikeDigsMikeDigs Posts: 1,493
    Get_Right said:
    ZoSoTim said:
    As someone without an unlimited bank account I hate the premium pricing but I can also see why it’s used. Why should scalpers make more money off ticket sales than the actual artists?

    This. TM is controlling the sale of every single ticket by algorithm and capturing the secondary market revenue. The best seats never get released to the public, and as we have seen, not even released to the 10C. TM is using technology to squeeze the most dollars out of all the best, and sometimes mediocre, seats. Why should Stubhub, Seatgeek et. al. make MILLIONS off a band without having any connection to the band? That is why prices are higher and dynamic pricing exists. That is TM's value proposition to the artists and it is a win win for the artists and TM. I can't blame a band for saying yes when they deserve that revenue more than the resellers. Good for Robert Smith, but he is leaving big money on the table and feeding revenue to the secondary market. The bigger issue is the lack of competition for TM and the fact that they can charge any prices and fees they like without recourse. It is a textbook monopoly and that is how and why consumers are getting screwed.
    Spot on and nice explanation.
    I'm spinning, oh-oh-oh I'm spinning
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,467
    SHZA said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    During the checkout process with the clock ticking it can be tough to tell what's included. I almost got duped during the Oasis sale last week. The first thing I carted seemed like the standard GA ticket and was about $400. I almost bought it because once it was in the cart the full description wasn't available, and if I had taken the time to read through the fine print on the map page someone else would have carted it. I ultimately passed and went back and got the real standard price which was about $250.

    By "more" I'm just saying that the seats themselves aren't even "better" than standard. There's no way to know during an initial sale that standard seats in the same row or better will be released for $500 less. The Platinum buyer paid $800 and the person in the row in front of them was only charged $300 for the identical (actually better) product. I struggle to see how that's not a scam.
    How many times have you been on an airplane and the person in front of you paid more or less? Was someone scammed there?
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,467
    pjhawks said:
    MikeDigs said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    Interesting take since you used the same price that I paid, but then you described a completely different situation, as I never thought that.  Really weird, since I already described my issue.  I knew I bought a concert ticket, and I knew where the seat was located.  With a "Premium" tag I was surprised how shitty the seats actually were, and that our view was blocked.

    I DO think it's reasonable to expect that a concert ticket, listed with a "Premium" tag, would at the very least, come with unobstructed views of the stage. 
    The scam of premium pricing is not being able to resell for less than the price you paid. I understand not letting people scalp for more, but not being able to undersell seems like a total fu move.
    This is the biggest issue with "fan to fan" and I have more problems with that than convoluted dynamic pricing nonsense 
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,467
    SHZA said:
    Get_Right said:
    ZoSoTim said:
    As someone without an unlimited bank account I hate the premium pricing but I can also see why it’s used. Why should scalpers make more money off ticket sales than the actual artists?

    This. TM is controlling the sale of every single ticket by algorithm and capturing the secondary market revenue. The best seats never get released to the public, and as we have seen, not even released to the 10C. TM is using technology to squeeze the most dollars out of all the best, and sometimes mediocre, seats. Why should Stubhub, Seatgeek et. al. make MILLIONS off a band without having any connection to the band? That is why prices are higher and dynamic pricing exists. That is TM's value proposition to the artists and it is a win win for the artists and TM. I can't blame a band for saying yes when they deserve that revenue more than the resellers. Good for Robert Smith, but he is leaving big money on the table and feeding revenue to the secondary market. The bigger issue is the lack of competition for TM and the fact that they can charge any prices and fees they like without recourse. It is a textbook monopoly and that is how and why consumers are getting screwed.
    It's a contradiction to say they are competing with secondary market sites but yet it's a monopoly. 
    Very interesting point
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,467
    edited October 16
    Also, their competition (AXS et al) have not proven to be any better. Same fees, same game playin' with resale on in-demand shows.
  • SHZASHZA Posts: 3,933
    edited October 16
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    During the checkout process with the clock ticking it can be tough to tell what's included. I almost got duped during the Oasis sale last week. The first thing I carted seemed like the standard GA ticket and was about $400. I almost bought it because once it was in the cart the full description wasn't available, and if I had taken the time to read through the fine print on the map page someone else would have carted it. I ultimately passed and went back and got the real standard price which was about $250.

    By "more" I'm just saying that the seats themselves aren't even "better" than standard. There's no way to know during an initial sale that standard seats in the same row or better will be released for $500 less. The Platinum buyer paid $800 and the person in the row in front of them was only charged $300 for the identical (actually better) product. I struggle to see how that's not a scam.
    How many times have you been on an airplane and the person in front of you paid more or less? Was someone scammed there?
    No scam, because the airline told me I was in the "economy" section. If the airline sold a bunch of tickets as "Platinum class," but when you get to the airport you're in the fifth row of economy next to a lavatory and sandwiched between two people who paid a third of the price for "standard economy" tickets that the airline released the day before the flight, that would be a scam. That's basically what TM is doing with platinum/premium. 
    Post edited by SHZA on
  • ZoSoTimZoSoTim Posts: 1,057
    You fall for a lot of scams, don’t you? Who in their right mind would buy something labeled “premium” at a huge markup without inquiring as to what extra benefits come with that ticket? 
    Dallas, TX (November 15, 2013)
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  • SHZASHZA Posts: 3,933
    ZoSoTim said:
    You fall for a lot of scams, don’t you? Who in their right mind would buy something labeled “premium” at a huge markup without inquiring as to what extra benefits come with that ticket? 
    Obviously a lot of people buy them, or they wouldn't be so prevalent. So according to you, all these buyers are either not "in their right mind," or they inquired and made a fully informed decision to pay "a huge markup" despite receiving no extra benefits. Or maybe you're wrong and people are being misled by the labeling. I'd wager it's a deliberate strategy by TM, knowing that many ticket buyers won't know any better and will buy thinking that the platinum tag must mean they're getting something more for the price (better seats or otherwise). 
  • Foriginal SinForiginal Sin Posts: 1,788
    kmcmanus said:
    They came right out and said that they opted into it to get more 10C tickets. You can feel however you want about whether you agree with their choice but they never claimed they were forced, it was a compromise 
    Yup, but then everyone would say “I didn’t get any fan club tickets”
    Chicago 6/29/98, Alpine Valley(EV) 6/13/99, Alpine Valley 10/08/00, Chicago 10/09/00, Phoenix 10/20/00, Orlando 4/12/03, Tampa 4/13/03, San Diego 6/05/03, Vegas 6/06/03, Phoenix 6/07/03, Chicago 6/18/03, Alpine Valley 6/21/03, Orlando 10/08/04, D.C. 10/11/04, Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, LA 7/12/08, Chicago 8/23/09, Chicago 8/24/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09 (Front Row Center, Finally), Phoenix(EV) 11/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Phoenix 11/19/13, Denver 10/22/14, Wrigley 8/20/16, Wrigley 8/22/16
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,467
    SHZA said:
    ZoSoTim said:
    You fall for a lot of scams, don’t you? Who in their right mind would buy something labeled “premium” at a huge markup without inquiring as to what extra benefits come with that ticket? 
    Obviously a lot of people buy them, or they wouldn't be so prevalent. So according to you, all these buyers are either not "in their right mind," or they inquired and made a fully informed decision to pay "a huge markup" despite receiving no extra benefits. Or maybe you're wrong and people are being misled by the labeling. I'd wager it's a deliberate strategy by TM, knowing that many ticket buyers won't know any better and will buy thinking that the platinum tag must mean they're getting something more for the price (better seats or otherwise). 
    Or just go with Occam's Razor: There are enough people who get jumpy and need to secure seats so they just pay whatever 
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,467
    SHZA said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    During the checkout process with the clock ticking it can be tough to tell what's included. I almost got duped during the Oasis sale last week. The first thing I carted seemed like the standard GA ticket and was about $400. I almost bought it because once it was in the cart the full description wasn't available, and if I had taken the time to read through the fine print on the map page someone else would have carted it. I ultimately passed and went back and got the real standard price which was about $250.

    By "more" I'm just saying that the seats themselves aren't even "better" than standard. There's no way to know during an initial sale that standard seats in the same row or better will be released for $500 less. The Platinum buyer paid $800 and the person in the row in front of them was only charged $300 for the identical (actually better) product. I struggle to see how that's not a scam.
    How many times have you been on an airplane and the person in front of you paid more or less? Was someone scammed there?
    No scam, because the airline told me I was in the "economy" section. If the airline sold a bunch of tickets as "Platinum class," but when you get to the airport you're in the fifth row of economy next to a lavatory and sandwiched between two people who paid a third of the price for "standard economy" tickets that the airline released the day before the flight, that would be a scam. That's basically what TM is doing with platinum/premium. 
    Buddy you literally see where the seat is on the chart when you buy it 
  • devonfzdevonfz Posts: 176
    Bottom line it’s maximizing profits for Tm and pj they want to make max money the only benefit for fans is 10c access

    not Allowing fans to resell their own tickets how they want just part of the business model of maximizing profits

    And I’m ok with this…
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,448
    edited October 16
    SHZA said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    pjl44 said:
    SHZA said:
    I think some of you are looking at this from the perspective of a savvy consumer who has experience with TM shenanigans and has done the research to understand that the only premium feature of premium seating is the price. To the average consumer who doesn't know that, it would be reasonable for that person to expect that they are getting something more than they would get if they purchased standard tickets. Just because not everyone is deceived doesn't mean it's not deceptive. 
    Is it the artists making the money or ticketmaster? I think for big arena and stadium shows the artists are receiving a guarantee. I assumed that the premium prices are going to tickemaster. 
    The artists "own" the tickets so they are getting the money. But because TM's fees are based on a percentage of the price, TM gets much higher fees on the premium sales.

     
    I don't think it's reasonable to buy a ticket and think "oh boy I can't wait to see what else I get for $800," not look into what else you get for $800, and then get upset that you only got a concert ticket for $800
    During the checkout process with the clock ticking it can be tough to tell what's included. I almost got duped during the Oasis sale last week. The first thing I carted seemed like the standard GA ticket and was about $400. I almost bought it because once it was in the cart the full description wasn't available, and if I had taken the time to read through the fine print on the map page someone else would have carted it. I ultimately passed and went back and got the real standard price which was about $250.

    By "more" I'm just saying that the seats themselves aren't even "better" than standard. There's no way to know during an initial sale that standard seats in the same row or better will be released for $500 less. The Platinum buyer paid $800 and the person in the row in front of them was only charged $300 for the identical (actually better) product. I struggle to see how that's not a scam.
    How many times have you been on an airplane and the person in front of you paid more or less? Was someone scammed there?
    No scam, because the airline told me I was in the "economy" section. If the airline sold a bunch of tickets as "Platinum class," but when you get to the airport you're in the fifth row of economy next to a lavatory and sandwiched between two people who paid a third of the price for "standard economy" tickets that the airline released the day before the flight, that would be a scam. That's basically what TM is doing with platinum/premium. 
    If the airline announced in advance that those seats would be based on market value and subject to change, as TM has done, then no, it wouldn’t be a scam. 
    There’s no fraud involved here… deceptive wording? Sure…. I’ll give you that. But no one was promised anything they didn’t get… it seems the problem is in the assumption made when people see the word premium, which in the end is on the consumer for being uniformed. Being uninformed doesn’t = getting scammed. 
    We all know the panic that comes w/ trying to score tickets when they go on sale, & TM is preying on this for sure; but when the details of tickets are made available in advance of the sale, it’s the consumer's responsibility to understand what they’re purchasing. There’s no scam here, no one was robbed… buyer beware. 
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