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Amps: 1x12'', 2x10'', or 4x10"?

RPFRPF Posts: 4
edited February 2004 in Musicians and Gearheads
Currently i use a cheap 10 watt practice amp with my MIM Tele, however as i am about to join a band, i will need a louder amp to be heard over the drummer. I was wondering what your opinions are about speaker size and number. We plan on playing a good variety of music, everything from Zeppelin, to PJ, Rolling Stones, Radiohead etc. What are the advantage/disadvantages/differences between a 4 by 10'' stack vs a single 12'' etc? Also, is it better to get a combo amp, or a head and separate speakers? Also what brands/types of amps would you recomend?
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    Mike's CousinMike's Cousin Posts: 21
    there is so much that goes in to this answer. Let me ask you this, what is your budget? Do you what kind of places you want to play? Do you have a PA?

    I think the best thing might be a head. That way you hook up to any kind of cab you want. 1X12, 2X12, 4X12. Don't mess around with 10"speakers. If you want a boutique amp, here are some good builders:
    http://www.fargenamps.com
    http://www.badcatamps.com
    http://www.aikenamps.com
    http://www.savageamps.com


    If I was you, I'd probably go for a used Vox AC15. Check on ebay. If it's out of your range, I'd go for a Peavey classic 30 or Delta Blues with a 1X15?
    Makes much more sense
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    robrob Posts: 142
    A lot depends on where you're playing, and how good your back is! It's great fun to play through a Marshall stack, cranked up, but in reality, you can't crank them in many places. If you're playing clubs , Smaller amps are much better, cause you can keep the stage volume quiet, which makes you hear each other better through the monitors, and the amp will be miked into a PA system anyway. The sound guy will love you. Neil Young still just uses an old 22 watt fender deluxe, but it's definitely big sounding in concert!
    There's no right amp for you to play. A combo is easier to haul around. Go to a big music store and play a whole bunch of them. Marshall makes some small combos that are great sounding. One ten inch speaker or twelve is usually fine. I used to love old Vox's, and you can pick them up used at a reasonable price. Watch out for expensive stuff if you're playing in clubs though. ( Beer, drunks, dropped, forgotten, stolen )
    If you get a head, then you can add to the speakers later if you want. You don't need big wattage any more though.

    However, if your first gig is at the Rose Bowl, A row of Marshall Stacks baby, go for it!
    How,,,,,did I GET here?!

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    RPFRPF Posts: 4
    Originally posted by rob
    However, if your first gig is at the Rose Bowl, A row of Marshall Stacks baby, go for it!

    lol... if only.

    Thanks for the advice and websites, I guess i'll be hanging around the local guitar store this weekend fro a few hours.
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    robrob Posts: 142
    Good luck. Have fun playing.
    How,,,,,did I GET here?!

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    exhaustedexhausted Posts: 6,638
    for the size of venues you're likely to play, a 1x12" or a 2x10" is fine. just find a nice combo that you like the tone of. try to play it at a decent volume to get a try idea. seeing as it's a cover band (at least at first) get a dual channel model that will allow you a wider range of tones from very clean to fully distorted, unless you have effects to cover those bases.

    seeing as your're going from a practice amp, no need to jump to boutique amps, unless you have a money tree.
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    mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Mike's Cousin
    Don't mess around with 10"speakers.

    How DARE you steer this impressionable young player away from 10" speakers?!? I am the world's biggest fans of 10's, and they are the very foundation of my tone. Just look at the '59 Fender Bassman combo and look no further! 4 10" speakers are the absolute bomb in combo with a good tube amp. My 4x10" has been the only real constant amp companion for me in all my years of playing. 10's give you definition and punch, not to mention warmth, that no 12" or 15" could give you.

    If 10's aren't your sound, that's cool, but leave the rest of us to decide for ourselves.

    Venting complete.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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    robrob Posts: 142
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    How DARE you steer this impressionable young player away from 10" speakers?!?

    If 10's aren't your sound, that's cool, but leave the rest of us to decide for ourselves.

    Venting complete.



    Nice vent.
    My fingers were too tired to type about that!
    How,,,,,did I GET here?!

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    mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    I would seriously recommend the Fender Hot Rod DeVille for anybody just starting out in a band. It has 4 x 10" speakers, 60 watts tube power, two channels (clean, dirty) and a distortion boost on the dirty channel. It's definitely loud enough for anything but arena work (and then you'd mic it) and it sounds great. Very consistent. It's a bit unweildy, but no worse than a 4 x 12" cab.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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    Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    10"s are great. try a 59 bassman or a superreverb or a Vibrolux and tell me you don't like 10"s. Put a TS-808 and A Keeley Rat in front of it and watch the stage melt.

    I play an Orange AD-15/12 myself. Think Plexi.

    It smokes. THe only Speaker is a vintage 30 It's small but I live in an Apartment so I can't even turn it up. I had to give away my big fender to my brother in law
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
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    mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    I agree, Orange amps are sweet. I just wish I could afford one! As soon as I find a screaming deal on one, it's mine. Until then...

    I currently jam at home with a '66 Fender Vibro-Champ (8 watts through an 8" speaker) with my TS-9 in front (an MXR Phase 90 and an Ibanez Digi Delay, as well). Similar, if more quiet, to Neil using a Deluxe.

    I still say the Fender DeVille is the best all-around amp to start with, though. Especially for the price.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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    Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Mccready. I love mid 60's fender amps I was considering buying a vibro champ, I found one for 595. The vibrolux and Super Reverb are a little out of my range at 2200. So much soul though. I need a strat from back then and a 335 and I'll be set for life.

    I got my AD-15 for 850 plus tax it was just over 900. No Reverb no nothing but an active EQ and really really responsive gain and volume.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
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    mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    I got my Vibro Champ for $100. It was a sweet deal. I did have to re-tube it soon after (vibrato wouldn't work, new tubes fixed that). I put a set of Electro-Harmonix tubes in (a 12AX7, a 12AU7, a 6L6, and a rectifier, I think a 5Y3) and it screams. The only really bad thing is the speaker... it had the original Fender Special Design speaker in it, but the cone had a dime-sized tear in it. For a while it was okay, but about a month ago, it started to break up really bad. I just replaced it with a Jensen MOD for the time being, although I plan on sending the original Fender to Weber to get it reconed. I've been thinking of adding a chassis ground, it's currently ungrounded, but I've never used it on stage with a mic and it doesn't hum too bad, so that might wait a while.

    I passed on a 50-watt Orange head two years ago for like $800. I was flat-assed broke at the time, and I've always regretted it. I would really rather have an old Fender Vibrolux or Bassman head to power up my 4 x 10" cab with. I really love the sound of a TS-9 through a Fender tube amp. A Deluxe would be damned sweet, too. Ultimately, my wishlist is:

    '59 Bassman combo
    '66 Twin Reverb combo
    '56 Gibson Les Paul Goldtop
    '57 Gibson Les Paul Goldtop

    Put an A/B box before the two amps, dial the Bassman in for dirty (overdrive, not DeathMetalDistortion), the Twin 'Verb in for clean (glassy, bit of reverb, vibrato on footswitch) and use as few FX as possible.

    My Marshall will do for now, though.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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    dan_alivedan_alive Posts: 123
    I went straight from a practice amp to my current Fender Hot Rod Deluxe... I suggest if you want to go for the tube amps then try the Laney (UK), Vox and Fender. Check out their websites... http://www.fender.com take a look at the Hot Rods.. mine is 40W tube and it can match it with 90W solid state marshalls.. in a jam setup it goes well, i've only ever taken it up to 8 on one occasion (with the other 90W marshall close by hehe). PLaying gigs, I guess you'll be miked up in most cases so u won't have much trouble there.
    Maybe shop around for a second-hand deal like the other guys suggested.. eBay etc etc.

    It's really just a case of trying a number of amps and seeing which sound you like best... don't fret too much about the brand especially if you're choice is between Vox, Laney and Fender... the only thing is forking out to buy new tubes every now and then.

    Happy hunting!! I'm goin out today to check out some wah pedals..

    see ya round
    dan.
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
    "It is I, with the empty bladder!"

    www.nowalletevolution.com
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    exhaustedexhausted Posts: 6,638
    my first amp was a fender jam (gag) 25W solid state practice amp. 1X12

    my next amp was a crate club50 tube amp. 50W. 2x12" it was unreliable.

    i then traded it for a fender hot rod deluxe that i played for a long long time. 1x12" 40W tube.

    i added a fender 4x10 deville (60W tube) when i was briefly in a band. let me tell you. a 1x12 and a 4x10 in parallel are loud!!.

    i then traded the deville and the deluxe for a fender 65 deluxe reverb when i started playing solo and hit a huge buckley phase. it's a reissue but i love and will have it forever. 1x12" 22W tube.

    at one point, i had a mesa boogie blue angel 1x12" that i lliked but didn't use it all that much b/c i was getting the sounds i needed out of the deluxe reverb. i regret letting it go though.

    so now i just play the deluxe reverb. i run the vibrato channel primarily and i just set up my POD running 'tube preamp' in front of the DRY channel. i use 3 programs in the POD: a good leslie sound, a really choppy tremolo and a basic dirty. i switch between the two channels using my handy new A/B box i made.

    i use a THD hotplate to cut the volume to the speaker without constricting the amp itself. let's me turn it up to 5 or so without pissing off my neighbours.

    i also have the POD programmed using the matchless chieftain model that i do the bulk of my recording with.

    here's what the set-up looks like today. i just finished tweaking it a bit. trimmed some fat out. i like it.

    http://www3.telus.net/alcoholiday/guitar/guitar_setup%20-%209-25-03.jpg

    what did this have to do with anything? i'm not sure. i like combos though. that i know. and i'm loud enough to fill any place i'd ever play.
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    robrob Posts: 142
    Man my amps have gotten smaller and smaller. I had the Marshall Stacks, had an Ampeg svt with 8 x 10's. I gave that to a 5 foot tall woman who played bass. It was taller than her! In reality there's not many places that you can crank that stuff up because it's too loud. Mesa boogies are great but loud,too.
    I have a mark II that I had made in like 1982 or so that's 160 watts and has 6 6l6's in it. Can't really use that either. What waw I thinking!

    I love my Fender Deluxe reissue. That IS my favorite these days. About 600 to 800 bucks though, but a pure sounding amp. I ended up putting in a weber speaker, and nos tubes. But they are great out of the box,too

    Another possibility is a mesa boogie dc 3 or 5. I've got a DC 5 around somewhere, you can pick them up used for about 4 -500 bucks. They have a lot of guts at 50 watts, and have an equalizer built in. One complaint about them was that they need a lot of tweaking to get your sounds, but once you find your settings, you write them down. That thing has a bit of Fender and vox for the stones and a bit of Marshall for your jimmy page. That thing can hold it's own to a Marshall Stack. But it sounds good at lower volumes when you're miking it. That thing went everywhere.


    Good luck
    How,,,,,did I GET here?!

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    Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    hey Mccready is God we speak the same language.

    A tube screamer through a mid 60's or late 50's fender is heaven.


    Vibrolux. or deluxe = Heaven

    Super Reverb with a 335= heaven.

    Orange with anything,= Heaven

    Marshall Plexi hanging out with Mike= priceless

    Much better than women. Women and friends are unreliable and bitchy.

    Guitars are forever.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
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    dan_alivedan_alive Posts: 123
    i hear ya, paco hehe

    i must say i love having this forum for us to talk about this stuff and for us lesser players to learn off you experienced ppl... keep it coming
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
    "It is I, with the empty bladder!"

    www.nowalletevolution.com
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    mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    paco, we are definitely on the same wavelength.

    Marshall Plexi... Mmmmmm....

    I therefor propose the following:

    All PJ fans/Gearheads move to a single location, buy a 100-acre commune, pool their financial resources, and build the ultimate in gear-sharing communities! We'll have Deluxes and Twin Reverbs and Rectifiers and Plexis and Oranges, we'll have Marshall cabs and Fender cabs and SWR cabs and Ampeg cabs, SVT's, maybe we'll kidnap Trentino and convert him to our cause...

    Get some recording gear, build a studio, have a Studer 2-inch 24-track, an Ampex 1-inch 8-track, and Pro-Tools for edit and mix-down. Some Neve channels, an Amek recording console, some TL Audio tube pre's, some Joe Meek tube compressors, Avalon DI's.

    A stage with EAW speakers, a Midas XL3 at front of house, a PM3000 at monitors... with digital snake running to the studio for live recordings...

    Anybody in?
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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    dan_alivedan_alive Posts: 123
    Where do I sign?
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
    "It is I, with the empty bladder!"

    www.nowalletevolution.com
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    exhaustedexhausted Posts: 6,638
    i'll make the amp selector boxes.
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    gonzalocgonzaloc Posts: 5
    Keep on preachin´ mon

    Regards

    Gonzalo
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    pariahpariah Posts: 596
    Count me in... but I'll bring in one more amp


    guess :D
    "Until you realize the importance of the banana king, you will know absolutely nothing about the human-interest things of the world."
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    mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Just when I thought this thread had faded away...
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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