Interesting and topical topic, Davidos. And also interesting that no one here seems to be interested. I tried to read the WSJ article you cited but am unable to access it online without a subscription. Do you have a digital WSJ account that you can cut and paste the article from for us? Thanks either way.
Actually, I was referring to the graph in the WSJ article that shows that it is indeed the band (at least when they become highly successful) that decides what the ticket prices will be, not the ticket outlet or the venue. I'm not saying that this is wrong - after all, the band is the product and deserve the bulk of the money, but they could set the price lower as a favor to their fans if they wanted to.
Honestly, on this run, the higher price is probably stemming from the production costs to rent and build the video wall that goes on tour with the band, and the fact that they cut out all seats behind the stage that would have been sell outs
I think the monopolistic practices are more under scrutiny than the core cost of a ticket.
Artist's ticket prices should be higher when music releases and album sales are relatively non existent these days.
What isn't justified in terms of cost that is why the service fee should latch onto higher prices as well by being pro-rata to the ticket price.
Why should someone who buys a premium seat at $500 and get hit with a $85 fee vs a $25 fee with a $100 ticket when the same transaction occurs regardless?
There are other aspects to it, like holding back the best seats to create a feeding frenzy early on to move uppers
fees
moving tix thru secondary markets and claiming they have no affiliation
its layered
but yes, Artists fuck their fans too
How is it fucking their fans, exactly? Unless Ed or Stone forced you to buy a ticket?
Music is a business and I'm not sure why anyone thinks otherwise. Don't like the cost of the product? Don't buy it.
Uhhhh wasn’t talking bout PJ there , I said ARTISTS as in the thread is about a WSJ Article that touches on the general nature. Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, may want to up your prescription glasses .
for the record $186 in this market, and who they are and what you get is reasonable to me. Sure everyone wants cheaper
also generally speaking TM gets all the heat, ARTISTS negotiate with them, get cut of fees
I think this doesn't really cover dynamic pricing unless the band decided on dynamic pricing. Also, don't big artists get paid a huge lump sum to have their tour organised by ticketmaster in the first place? This graphic is maybe a little bit too simple.
I think this doesn't really cover dynamic pricing unless the band decided on dynamic pricing. Also, don't big artists get paid a huge lump sum to have their tour organised by ticketmaster in the first place? This graphic is maybe a little bit too simple.
No TM is the ticket seller Not the tour promoter. Big tours are organized and arranged by tour agencies and or tour promoters in consultation with the artists. And yes LN is often the promoter.
Artists have to sign off on dynamic pricing as well.
There are other aspects to it, like holding back the best seats to create a feeding frenzy early on to move uppers
fees
moving tix thru secondary markets and claiming they have no affiliation
its layered
but yes, Artists fuck their fans too
How is it fucking their fans, exactly? Unless Ed or Stone forced you to buy a ticket?
Music is a business and I'm not sure why anyone thinks otherwise. Don't like the cost of the product? Don't buy it.
Equting the relationship between artist and fan, to some full on ”the invisable hand” market ecobomy capitalist BS is just sad.
Icky stuff.
That's the relationship. Not understanding that is what leads to a lot of angst about ticketing, merch, prices, etc.
I agree, so long as the ticket inflation seems proportional to other cost of living increases. If costs are going up, and the artists want their lifestyle to be maintained, their break-even point for ticket sales will be higher (leading to ticket price increases), and since the value of a dollar is diminished due to inflation, they'll reasonably seek more profit.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
The Black Keys have canceled the upcoming North American leg of their International Players Tour, with dates for the jaunt abruptly erased without explanation from the band's social media pages and official website.
On Friday, fans noticed that the Ticketmaster listing for the International Players Tour's North American arena shows — which was set to begin September 17 in Tulsa, Oklahoma and run through November 12 in Detroit — listed all of the shows as canceled.
Venues' individual listings for the concerts — including a September 18 gig at Austin's Moody Center and an October 30 show at New York's Madison Square Garden — also updated the pages to acknowledge that the shows had been canceled and that fans would automatically receive refunds. "Unfortunately, the Event Organizer has had to cancel this event," the Moody Center's listing noted.
The Black Keys' official website has also scrubbed all of the band's upcoming tour dates except for a single one-off show, a July 6 gig at Chicago's NASCAR Street Race.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
There are other aspects to it, like holding back the best seats to create a feeding frenzy early on to move uppers
fees
moving tix thru secondary markets and claiming they have no affiliation
its layered
but yes, Artists fuck their fans too
How is it fucking their fans, exactly? Unless Ed or Stone forced you to buy a ticket?
Music is a business and I'm not sure why anyone thinks otherwise. Don't like the cost of the product? Don't buy it.
Equting the relationship between artist and fan, to some full on ”the invisable hand” market ecobomy capitalist BS is just sad.
Icky stuff.
Here, I'll make it more clear for you. In this instance the relationship is defined by an exchange of capital for a product, is it not? The only reason Pearl Jam found "success" is because they sold a lot of albums and sold a lot of tickets. It's also why they've been able to continue to make albums and tour. It's called the music industry for a reason. Is that the entirety of the relationship between artist and fan, of course it isn't, but to think there's literally any other way to frame this situation as one between a consumer and a producer is just willful ignorance.
There are other aspects to it, like holding back the best seats to create a feeding frenzy early on to move uppers
fees
moving tix thru secondary markets and claiming they have no affiliation
its layered
but yes, Artists fuck their fans too
How is it fucking their fans, exactly? Unless Ed or Stone forced you to buy a ticket?
Music is a business and I'm not sure why anyone thinks otherwise. Don't like the cost of the product? Don't buy it.
unfortunately when the product is an event where the "manufacturer" has the monopoly on the product, it becomes a problem.
This may work out better for the artists which is reason enough but I don't know what people are expecting to change for the consumer. When I use a TM competitor, (AXS, etc.) I'm being charged a similar % service fee. From there the ticket prices themselves are just supply/demand.
I was just referring to comparing this to any other type of product, like you could "shop" for concert tickets somewhere else for cheaper. there is no direct competitor, as no band is the same product.
I don't know how ticket sales were going for The Black Keys. But many artists have many tickets available for their shows. Bigger artists than them. Some even with reasonably priced tickets. Do they need to sell a certain percentage?
I was just referring to comparing this to any other type of product, like you could "shop" for concert tickets somewhere else for cheaper. there is no direct competitor, as no band is the same product.
Saw this post after I made one about MSG, very interesting. But w/ MSG I think they would be losing over a MILLION$ on 2 nights of sales
Wondering other people's thoughts.....I have seen PJ 2x at MSG once side and once rear, both were great. Do we think they are going to drop these? I can't believe they are going to curtain the back 15/20% of the arena, when it is sold out and prices are at a premium. I know we have been hearing last minute drops on the west coast, but this is the whole behind the stage, between 2 nights this is a minimum of a $MIllion$ Can't believe they haven't been dropped yet. Just wondering experts thoughts....or a petition to drop the tickets, we will FILL it.
That graph might be an average at best. Every band negotiates their cut of the ticket sales money with Live Nation. If the band agrees to playing only LN venues and doesn’t restrict resale/dynamic priced tickets, they can at times get 100% of the ticket money because LN is making so much on the other costs. A band like PJ, who plays many non-LN owned venues, restricts ticket resale and limits dynamic prices, get a much smaller portion of the ticket money, so to make the tour profitable, they have to have a higher ticket price to compensate for LN’s business practices. This is a perfect example of what the DOJ suit is about, punishing fans for bands that don’t want to play ball with LN. I can’t imagine how Neil Young is making any money on his current tour with the resale restrictions, limited dynamic priced tickets AND he’s demanding no large corporation alcohol sales (only locally owned craft beer are allowed for sale at the concessions at his shows) and all the meat has to be natural and sourced from local farms.
I can’t imagine how Neil Young is making any money on his current tour with the resale restrictions, limited dynamic priced tickets AND he’s demanding no large corporation alcohol sales (only locally owned craft beer are allowed for sale at the concessions at his shows) and all the meat has to be natural and sourced from local farms.
This caught me off guard, but not surprising. My daughter wanted an ice cream at our show last month, there were ads all over the venue.
Nope, he wouldn't allow them to sell non-organic ice cream. My kid was... Gutted.
I have a feeling Neil's tour is a zero-emissions, zero-income tour.
I can’t imagine how Neil Young is making any money on his current tour with the resale restrictions, limited dynamic priced tickets AND he’s demanding no large corporation alcohol sales (only locally owned craft beer are allowed for sale at the concessions at his shows) and all the meat has to be natural and sourced from local farms.
I have a feeling Neil's tour is a zero-emissions, zero-income tour.
I can’t imagine how Neil Young is making any money on his current tour with the resale restrictions, limited dynamic priced tickets AND he’s demanding no large corporation alcohol sales (only locally owned craft beer are allowed for sale at the concessions at his shows) and all the meat has to be natural and sourced from local farms.
I have a feeling Neil's tour is a zero-emissions, zero-income tour.
But still one hell of a show!
No doubt. I couldn't believe they still brought that much energy. Can't wait for ohana.
Comments
And also interesting that no one here seems to be interested.
I tried to read the WSJ article you cited but am unable to access it online without a subscription.
Do you have a digital WSJ account that you can cut and paste the article from for us?
Thanks either way.
https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/1fe9d8a041eb54a9/8cb62588-full.pdf
fees
moving tix thru secondary markets and claiming they have no affiliation
its layered
but yes, Artists fuck their fans too
Artist's ticket prices should be higher when music releases and album sales are relatively non existent these days.
What isn't justified in terms of cost that is why the service fee should latch onto higher prices as well by being pro-rata to the ticket price.
Why should someone who buys a premium seat at $500 and get hit with a $85 fee vs a $25 fee with a $100 ticket when the same transaction occurs regardless?
for the record $186 in this market, and who they are and what you get is reasonable to me. Sure everyone wants cheaper
also generally speaking TM gets all the heat, ARTISTS negotiate with them, get cut of fees
understood or?
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Icky stuff.
TM is the ticket seller
Not the tour promoter.
Big tours are organized and arranged by tour agencies and or tour promoters in consultation with the artists. And yes LN is often the promoter.
Artists have to sign off on dynamic pricing as well.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Rolling Stone:
The Black Keys have canceled the upcoming North American leg of their International Players Tour, with dates for the jaunt abruptly erased without explanation from the band's social media pages and official website.
On Friday, fans noticed that the Ticketmaster listing for the International Players Tour's North American arena shows — which was set to begin September 17 in Tulsa, Oklahoma and run through November 12 in Detroit — listed all of the shows as canceled.
Venues' individual listings for the concerts — including a September 18 gig at Austin's Moody Center and an October 30 show at New York's Madison Square Garden — also updated the pages to acknowledge that the shows had been canceled and that fans would automatically receive refunds. "Unfortunately, the Event Organizer has had to cancel this event," the Moody Center's listing noted.
The Black Keys' official website has also scrubbed all of the band's upcoming tour dates except for a single one-off show, a July 6 gig at Chicago's NASCAR Street Race.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
Tate McRae is able to sell MSG well
I know we have been hearing last minute drops on the west coast, but this is the whole behind the stage, between 2 nights this is a minimum of a $MIllion$
Can't believe they haven't been dropped yet.
Just wondering experts thoughts....or a petition to drop the tickets, we will FILL it.
Nope, he wouldn't allow them to sell non-organic ice cream. My kid was... Gutted.
I have a feeling Neil's tour is a zero-emissions, zero-income tour.