Need help with amp purchase too

pariah

Well... since I'm repairing my poo poo 100w cheap tube halfstack copy Marshall and then kicking it out (read: selling it), I'll have some dough to spend and a reasonable deal on a Silverface Twin has caught my eye... but since I'm not really confident in my own amp knowledge a few questions to you gear oracles...:) First, what are the downsides of Silverfaces vs. Blackfaces? Are they much worse?
Also, I love the amp but i'd like to be able to use it at home sometimes too (though it will be mainly in a band space) and 85 watt is a shitload of sound. I read in an article some time ago that you can simply pull two tubes out and change ohmage (sp?) to decrease output. Would it be that easy with the Twin?

Oh yeah, one more thing... to Exhausted... I have a TR-2, why would it be worth keeping when you have amp tube tremolo? I was wondering because you have both a very good tremolo amp and a TR-2..

Thanks in advance

exhausted

on the TR-2 question: keep it for the variable waveform. it's very useful. the fender tremolo waveform can be limiting.

on the silverface/blackface. blackfaces are much more desirable as they pre-date CBS's circuit alterations and cost-cutting measures that got built into the silverfaces. however, if you like the sound of the silverface, go for it. another option is to, at some point, convert it to blackface specs.

on the tube/power issue: i won't touch that b/c i'm no amp tech. a speaker attenuator is another option that doesn't involve altering the amp at all.

62strat

i was at savage this weekend, and sicussing hte same problem with wattage....


you can take out the 2 correct tubes and have them change whatever else needs to be changed ohms.......that DOES work...

pariah

Thanks

62strat: if i'm not mistaking, one must take either the two outer or the inner (english?) tubes.

mccreadyisgod

Originally posted by pariah
62strat: if i'm not mistaking, one must take either the two outer or the inner (english?) tubes.

You don't want to take a chance on this... Those amps work in push-pull mode, so that tubes work in pairs. One tube handles the push of the speaker, and the other tube handles the pull. If you pull the wrong two tubes, you'll have either two tubes pushing or two tubes pulling, or one tube pushing against nothing and the other tube pulling against nothing. Sort of confusing, but the net result is that you'd probably blow your speaker, and maybe your output transformer. So don't go messing with this until you figure out which tubes are opposing. A qualified tech can tell you which tubes are paired. They won't recommend it (it is sort of a risky move for them to recommend) but they should at least tell you which tubes to pull if you take all responsibility for doing it.

The safer method (although a costly one) is to get an attenuator. They are purpose-built for this sort of thing, and are completely safe if used correctly.

As for the silverface vs. blackface debate... it depends on the year. Many of the first silverface amps retained the chassis design and wiring specs of the blackface amps. Even after some alterations, the silverface amps are still quite good-sounding, although their wiring and some components suffered in overall quality. Over time, you can easily bring them up to higher specs, but until you really develop an audiophile taste in amps, you won't notice the difference. A friend of mine plays on a beautiful post-CBS silverface Twin Reverb, and it sounds amazing. And he is a complete audiophile, too, and the amp is unmodified. The biggest appeal of the blackface, blonde, and tweed amps is more mojo than actual electronics or tone. I will admit that the tweeds with cloth hand-wiring and their attention to quality and detail do sound better... the blondes are the worst for cost vs. tone, they sound the same (to me) as a blackface and not really any better than a silverface. The only silverface amps that really deteriorated with the CBS years are the Champs and Vibro Champs; being econo-amps to begin with, they got the least attention after the CBS takeover.

Now, for the tremolo... outboard tremolos have really interesting sounds, and can be adjusted for some really nice tones, but for me, nothing beats a Fender tube-driven tremolo. It's all sort of subjective... different strokes for different folks.

who's_pearljam?

You can take the tubes out of a twin. Take the outer two, but you have to change the ohms from 4 to 8 ohms.
GET AN AMP TECH TO DO IT!! because it usually needs to be rebiased. Otherwise smokiness may develop! :eek:

But guess what,,, half the wattage of 80 watts is 40 watts but that doesn't lower the decibel out put by half. I think it lowers decibels only by about 80%, so it still is a loud amp and won't play quietly in a house or apartment. I did it and it really didn't get me anywhere. I actually put it back to full 4 tubes and use it for clean. I thought it sounded better with all four. Somewhere I have an watt to decibel chart. I'll post it somewhere.
And, like MIG said, If you want a twin, get a cheap one and spend a couple of hundred at most to modify it to better specs.

And like Exhausted said, an attenuater is great for lowering the sound level. You don't get ground shaking, neighbor pissing off, china cabinet rattling, bowel moving, speaker air pressure, . But I guess that can be good! but it does drive the power tubes.

I love the Deluxe reverb tremelo the best. Tube tremelo. My favorite amp, too.
I knew a tech that bought the 135 watt model twins. People seem to hate them, but he modded them to a great sound for a pretty reasonable price.

mccreadyisgod

Originally posted by who's_pearljam?
I love the Deluxe reverb tremelo the best. Tube tremelo. My favorite amp, too.

MY favorite amp is a 6-watt Vibro Champ... incredible tube tremolo. The Deluxe Reverb, Vibro Verb, and Vibro King all have great tube tremolo as well.