UAW strike

I don't usually venture to AMT and one look at the "hot button" topics tells me why!

Anyway....the UAW strike. I'm kinda on the fence and am probably not well informed enough to have a solid opinion. On one hand, I'm an ex-union member and love what my union did for me. On the other hand, I'm well aware of the "problems" unions bring... Thoughts?
If I had known then what I know now...

Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Philly I & II, 16
Denver 22
«1

Comments

  • Wobbie said:
    I don't usually venture to AMT and one look at the "hot button" topics tells me why!

    Anyway....the UAW strike. I'm kinda on the fence and am probably not well informed enough to have a solid opinion. On one hand, I'm an ex-union member and love what my union did for me. On the other hand, I'm well aware of the "problems" unions bring... Thoughts?
    Nothing wrong with higher pay and better benefits but health benefits for retirees, on top of 36% pay increase over 4 years, a defined pension contribution on top of the 6% 401K contribution match currently provided AND a 32 hour work week but paid for 40 seems excessive. I know unions typically begin negotiations with asking for the moon and try to meet in the middle but this seems too much for me. The mandatory overtime and use of temporary employees are legitimate issues as is the staggering of pay scales and hourly wages, given profits and that executive salaries are up 40%.

    I wish them luck and hope that they get everything out of the corporations they can. Or maybe what we need is mass unemployment so they’ll appreciate what they have and get their asses back to work?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,435
    The demands seem a bit high but I do know that, without unions, the original “titans of industry,” (rockefellers, carnegies, morgans, etc.) would have had workers working 80 hours a week for a quarter per hour. I’m not sure anything has changed. There’s quite a bit of greed at the upper regions of every corporate ladder.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,654
    Wobbie said:
    I don't usually venture to AMT and one look at the "hot button" topics tells me why!

    Anyway....the UAW strike. I'm kinda on the fence and am probably not well informed enough to have a solid opinion. On one hand, I'm an ex-union member and love what my union did for me. On the other hand, I'm well aware of the "problems" unions bring... Thoughts?

    I think at one time in out (U.S.) history, unions were an absolute necessity and may still be appropriate for some sectors of the work force.  But I wonder if, in this day and age, perhaps a better way to go is to have more employee owned businesses?  I don't know a lot about them, but what I have heard is that they generally work well for everyone involved.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    remember, GM NEEDED a bailout in 2008. Chrysler too.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,435
    I think I’m beginning to side with you union.

    still bugs me most workers make more than teachers, but that’s another discussion.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    Wobbie said:
    I think I’m beginning to side with you union.

    still bugs me most workers make more than teachers, but that’s another discussion.

    we've already seen teachers unions in select districts stepping up. with the successful union negotiations this year, its likely those teachers unions will be more vocal going forward....

    for me as a childless adult, I am willing to fund schools, libraries etc but take issue with how school boards use the monies they get. namely admin costs growing leaving less for educating young people.....

    3 teachers in my family orbit.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,435
    mickeyrat said:
    Wobbie said:
    I think I’m beginning to side with you union.

    still bugs me most workers make more than teachers, but that’s another discussion.

    we've already seen teachers unions in select districts stepping up. with the successful union negotiations this year, its likely those teachers unions will be more vocal going forward....

    for me as a childless adult, I am willing to fund schools, libraries etc but take issue with how school boards use the monies they get. namely admin costs growing leaving less for educating young people.....

    3 teachers in my family orbit.

    also childless. 2 teachers in my family orbit and many, many friends. I'm all for funding schools, too....hate how teachers are demonized for teaching facts and also hate how most families in utah have 4+ kids (many with 6 or more) yet pay the same taxes and still bitch. same ridiculous thing when I was on Las Vegas Fire...one insurance rate for 1 kid; same rate for 2+. we had many mormons on the FD and one guy actually had 13 kids :tired_face: yet paid the same as people with two.

    again, another discussion
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mickeyrat said:

    Middle out!  Was this guy just bingeing Silicon Valley?!
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,106
    mickeyrat said:

    Wow are they really arguing that labor is becoming an insignificant percent of a vehicle? Considering unions make up about 15% of car industry employment, they’ll just build more plants in the south where republicans make certain the factories will be union free.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,106
    Wobbie said:
    I think I’m beginning to side with you union.

    still bugs me most workers make more than teachers, but that’s another discussion.


    Come to a place where unions rule, NY, the teachers make more money than most professionals.

    But politics are messy and too many independents are more worried about hating politics (really, trump is running even at 45%?), so much of the USA is a safe have for the anti union GOP

  • Wobbie said:
    I don't usually venture to AMT and one look at the "hot button" topics tells me why!

    Anyway....the UAW strike. I'm kinda on the fence and am probably not well informed enough to have a solid opinion. On one hand, I'm an ex-union member and love what my union did for me. On the other hand, I'm well aware of the "problems" unions bring... Thoughts?
    Nothing wrong with higher pay and better benefits but health benefits for retirees, on top of 36% pay increase over 4 years, a defined pension contribution on top of the 6% 401K contribution match currently provided AND a 32 hour work week but paid for 40 seems excessive. I know unions typically begin negotiations with asking for the moon and try to meet in the middle but this seems too much for me. The mandatory overtime and use of temporary employees are legitimate issues as is the staggering of pay scales and hourly wages, given profits and that executive salaries are up 40%.

    I wish them luck and hope that they get everything out of the corporations they can. Or maybe what we need is mass unemployment so they’ll appreciate what they have and get their asses back to work?
    When did you turn republican?
  • Wobbie said:
    I don't usually venture to AMT and one look at the "hot button" topics tells me why!

    Anyway....the UAW strike. I'm kinda on the fence and am probably not well informed enough to have a solid opinion. On one hand, I'm an ex-union member and love what my union did for me. On the other hand, I'm well aware of the "problems" unions bring... Thoughts?
    Nothing wrong with higher pay and better benefits but health benefits for retirees, on top of 36% pay increase over 4 years, a defined pension contribution on top of the 6% 401K contribution match currently provided AND a 32 hour work week but paid for 40 seems excessive. I know unions typically begin negotiations with asking for the moon and try to meet in the middle but this seems too much for me. The mandatory overtime and use of temporary employees are legitimate issues as is the staggering of pay scales and hourly wages, given profits and that executive salaries are up 40%.

    I wish them luck and hope that they get everything out of the corporations they can. Or maybe what we need is mass unemployment so they’ll appreciate what they have and get their asses back to work?
    When did you turn republican?
    I haven’t and I wouldn’t join that party for Elongitaint money. I was being sarcastic by referencing the Aussie CEO who was complaining that workers are making too many demands and that they need to be put back in their place via higher unemployment so the employer/employee dynamic would shift back to the employer. Fuck the GOP. And that Aussie CEO who said that.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 1,395
    edited September 2023
    Wobbie said:
    I don't usually venture to AMT and one look at the "hot button" topics tells me why!

    Anyway....the UAW strike. I'm kinda on the fence and am probably not well informed enough to have a solid opinion. On one hand, I'm an ex-union member and love what my union did for me. On the other hand, I'm well aware of the "problems" unions bring... Thoughts?
    Nothing wrong with higher pay and better benefits but health benefits for retirees, on top of 36% pay increase over 4 years, a defined pension contribution on top of the 6% 401K contribution match currently provided AND a 32 hour work week but paid for 40 seems excessive. I know unions typically begin negotiations with asking for the moon and try to meet in the middle but this seems too much for me. The mandatory overtime and use of temporary employees are legitimate issues as is the staggering of pay scales and hourly wages, given profits and that executive salaries are up 40%.

    I wish them luck and hope that they get everything out of the corporations they can. Or maybe what we need is mass unemployment so they’ll appreciate what they have and get their asses back to work?
    When did you turn republican?
    I haven’t and I wouldn’t join that party for Elongitaint money. I was being sarcastic by referencing the Aussie CEO who was complaining that workers are making too many demands and that they need to be put back in their place via higher unemployment so the employer/employee dynamic would shift back to the employer. Fuck the GOP. And that Aussie CEO who said that.
    Oh boy I was just being funny……well trying to be.  My apologies.  Next time I’ll be more clear.  
    Post edited by cblock4life on
  • Wobbie said:
    I don't usually venture to AMT and one look at the "hot button" topics tells me why!

    Anyway....the UAW strike. I'm kinda on the fence and am probably not well informed enough to have a solid opinion. On one hand, I'm an ex-union member and love what my union did for me. On the other hand, I'm well aware of the "problems" unions bring... Thoughts?
    Nothing wrong with higher pay and better benefits but health benefits for retirees, on top of 36% pay increase over 4 years, a defined pension contribution on top of the 6% 401K contribution match currently provided AND a 32 hour work week but paid for 40 seems excessive. I know unions typically begin negotiations with asking for the moon and try to meet in the middle but this seems too much for me. The mandatory overtime and use of temporary employees are legitimate issues as is the staggering of pay scales and hourly wages, given profits and that executive salaries are up 40%.

    I wish them luck and hope that they get everything out of the corporations they can. Or maybe what we need is mass unemployment so they’ll appreciate what they have and get their asses back to work?
    When did you turn republican?
    I haven’t and I wouldn’t join that party for Elongitaint money. I was being sarcastic by referencing the Aussie CEO who was complaining that workers are making too many demands and that they need to be put back in their place via higher unemployment so the employer/employee dynamic would shift back to the employer. Fuck the GOP. And that Aussie CEO who said that.
    Oh boy I was just being funny……well trying to be.  My apologies.  Next time I’ll be more clear.  
    No worries but turning GOP isn’t funny. Not with what they currently represent.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,559
    edited September 2023
    Time to pay up. From Letter From an American:

    Workers accepted major concessions in 2007, when it appeared that auto manufacturers would go under. They agreed to accept a two-tier pay system in which workers hired after 2007 would have lower pay and worse benefits than those hired before 2007. But then the industry recovered, and automakers’ profits skyrocketed: Ford, for example, made more than $10 billion in profits in 2022.

    Automakers’ chief executive officers’ pay has soared—GM CEO Mary Barra made almost $29 million in 2022—but workers’ wages and benefits have not. Barra, for example, makes 362 times the median GM employee’s paycheck, while autoworkers’ pay has fallen behind inflation by 19%. 

    The new UAW president, Shawn Fain, ran on a promise to demand a rollback of the 2007 concessions in this summer’s contract negotiations. He wants a cap on temporary workers, pay increases of more than 40% to match the salary increases of the CEOs, a 32-hour workweek, cost of living adjustments, and an elimination of the tier system. 
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,654
    Wobbie said:
    I don't usually venture to AMT and one look at the "hot button" topics tells me why!

    Anyway....the UAW strike. I'm kinda on the fence and am probably not well informed enough to have a solid opinion. On one hand, I'm an ex-union member and love what my union did for me. On the other hand, I'm well aware of the "problems" unions bring... Thoughts?
    Nothing wrong with higher pay and better benefits but health benefits for retirees, on top of 36% pay increase over 4 years, a defined pension contribution on top of the 6% 401K contribution match currently provided AND a 32 hour work week but paid for 40 seems excessive. I know unions typically begin negotiations with asking for the moon and try to meet in the middle but this seems too much for me. The mandatory overtime and use of temporary employees are legitimate issues as is the staggering of pay scales and hourly wages, given profits and that executive salaries are up 40%.

    I wish them luck and hope that they get everything out of the corporations they can. Or maybe what we need is mass unemployment so they’ll appreciate what they have and get their asses back to work?
    When did you turn republican?

    A few days ago someone here implied that I had turned MAGA.  My reaction?
    This:
    biglaugh

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,943
    Wobbie said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Wobbie said:
    I think I’m beginning to side with you union.

    still bugs me most workers make more than teachers, but that’s another discussion.

    we've already seen teachers unions in select districts stepping up. with the successful union negotiations this year, its likely those teachers unions will be more vocal going forward....

    for me as a childless adult, I am willing to fund schools, libraries etc but take issue with how school boards use the monies they get. namely admin costs growing leaving less for educating young people.....

    3 teachers in my family orbit.

    also childless. 2 teachers in my family orbit and many, many friends. I'm all for funding schools, too....hate how teachers are demonized for teaching facts and also hate how most families in utah have 4+ kids (many with 6 or more) yet pay the same taxes and still bitch. same ridiculous thing when I was on Las Vegas Fire...one insurance rate for 1 kid; same rate for 2+. we had many mormons on the FD and one guy actually had 13 kids :tired_face: yet paid the same as people with two.

    again, another discussion
    The teachers union is different because they are paid via government funding. That's harder to strong arm than massive corporate profits.

    Around here teachers have really good benefits but are still underpaid. 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,609
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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