tone tips needed.

kigcat

hi all. Ok im a huge Stevie ray vaughan, kenny wayne shepherd, jonny lang, John mayer trio etc fan and im desperate to get that biting almost metallic tone out of my strat but try as i might i just cant get it to sound right.
Im currently running my 50th aniversary strat into a crybaby wah - blues driver - TS9- univibe - DD3 - mxr micro amp then into a Harley benton 5Watt class A valve head thru a marshall 4x12
any ideas of settings? possible swapping around between blues driver and ts9 maybe? Its really annoying me cause i love my strat so much yet to me i cant really it to sound like i want a strat to sound. I love the chime clean double stop sounds of a strat like little wing kinda tone but i just cant get it???!!! help haha
cheers
kig

Novawind

Definitely use your bridge pickup for starters. You can mess around with the tone settings on your guitar and BD-2/TS9 until you get a sound that you like, but if you want twangy/metallic blues, that's your starting point. Maybe even then bridge/middle combo could work.

I don't personally have a BD-2 but I can tell you that I get different sonic combinations depending on whether I have my OCD or TS9 first; it's probably similar with your pedals. One trick that I know SRV utilized was the guitar's volume pot. The higher the guitar volume, the more initial "drive" goes into your pedals and the more gain you get out of them. Try setting your ODs with the gain around noon and the volume around 9 and see how playing with your guitar volume affects your "crunch" sound.

Pacomc79

yikes. This one's tough. 12AX7 in the preamp stage?

Try swapping it for a 5751 and see if it makes any difference.

Some of it is character.

One other question? String Size? Type?

Try a full nickle wrap string at no less than .10's. that will help cut the interplay a little 11's if you have stronger hands. A lot of the brighter strings don't do as well with single coils.

Playing with the eq could help too. You've got to have some EQ's laying around Kig or something you can play with.


do change the location of the TS9. Flip flop it. Drop the gain on the TS9 crank the volume. Dial the BD2 back to half volume or slightly less and then pull the gain back to 12 or one, really though it's interactive, volume up gain down a bit If my volume is at 2 my gains at 10 or vise versa depending on how much hair I need. If that dosen't work lower the gain knob to around 8 or 9 on the BD2 and put the volume around 2 or 3. Either way you should get some natural fattening from the TS9 and then more volume from the BD2 then adjust to taste it should give you some fatter tone on the lead pickup.

Also, you can look into adding a cap to the volume pot so you can roll off the volume without the high end loss. To save some hair and keep it cleaner.


Oh, and verb. You need a very light room verb and that will help the twang pop a bit. If you are already in a live room don't worry about it. The 4x12 is closed back so you're getting a lot more forceful sound though that might help the brightness of the bridge pup, for the hell of it you could take the back off and see if that gives you a little more spill. Just for fun, don't modify anything you can't put back. it may not work.


A big part of this is finding that in between just breaking up amp sound. you'll get there.

ianvomsaal

One of the things that really helped shape these artists tone was their AMP. Try not to forget this when looking
into all these different effects - generally these guys developed their amp tone before they settled on effects.

- SRV used one of these: click: César Diaz Moded Vibroverb, then added an old TS-808, wah, etc.

- I was going through AnalogMans stuff the other day and saw that Kenny Wayne Shepherd
used a similar setup click: KWS BAND (I don't know what he's using now - probably something similar).

- From what I remember Jonny Lang used a Fender Tone-Master, a Vibro-King, and a Fender-Deluxe amp.

- When I recorded with Mayer in 2000 he used a Vibro-King and Vibroverb, now he's gone to Dumble and Two-Rock amps.

- Ian

kigcat

thanks for the help guys. very much appreciated. Some really good ideas youve all given me. Ive been getting more and more disheartened by tone as of late. Oh and paco im usings 10`s didarrios at the moment. I thought of going up to 11s but thatd probably involve me having to file the nut abit and thats kinda destructive modding with no real going back if i dont like it.Anyone suggest any other types of strings that`ll sound better?
I guess i`ll have to soldier on tweaking things and one day i may get there. I just wanna nail those lovely clean bell tones and grating metallic dirty tones. I think my main thing is i find the BD2 to be too fuzzy and tinny and the TS9 to be too woody and middy for my likings. Im sure im not the first person to be hunting for the elusive tone we all crave for hahaha..

Pacomc79

kigcat wrote:

thanks for the help guys. very much appreciated. Some really good ideas youve all given me. Ive been getting more and more disheartened by tone as of late. Oh and paco im usings 10`s didarrios at the moment. I thought of going up to 11s but thatd probably involve me having to file the nut abit and thats kinda destructive modding with no real going back if i dont like it.Anyone suggest any other types of strings that`ll sound better?
I guess i`ll have to soldier on tweaking things and one day i may get there. I just wanna nail those lovely clean bell tones and grating metallic dirty tones. I think my main thing is i find the BD2 to be too fuzzy and tinny and the TS9 to be too woody and middy for my likings. Im sure im not the first person to be hunting for the elusive tone we all crave for hahaha..

how loud are you able to run the amp? It could be you just aren't getting the headroom you need. Sometimes pedals compress to much and kill off the big round bell tones you need.

kigcat

well im using it at home mostly so it aint that loud really. Cause its only 5 watts though it breaks up abit but onfortunately cause im running it into a 4x12 cab its pretty loud for home to get it to even start to break up. Its got (i think) 4,8 & 16ohm outputs. would it lower the breakup to volume level if i output it at a different ohm output? My cabs (according to the website) rated at 8ohms. if i plugged it into a different ohm output from the amp would it force the amp to run hotter to output to the speakers? Thus giving me more breakup at lower volumes? or is this bad for the amp or/and cab?
i should say my strat is equipped with the fender delta tone system.

Pacomc79

I'd rather see you just change the preamp tube to a lower gain tube first. Output transformers like to see the Ohm #'s matched up.

kigcat

good call mate. can i call you yoda? haha

Pacomc79

kigcat wrote:

good call mate. can i call you yoda? haha

dude, I should be bowing to you.. you're the one wiring up those Ilive's

Anyone here gets yoda status it's Bob or Ian or Greg or Dave. I'm bantha fodder

exhausted

neck/middle position on the strat. roll the volume back slightly to give you some room to work with.

paco's idea of the lower gain preamp tube is excellent.

keep the gain on the pedals low as well.

all these guys you mentioned are playing cleaner than one would initially think and so much is done with playing dynamics. unfortunately, part of the magic is the high wattage amplifiers running quite clean that give this wonderful, lively, spongy quasi-dirty sound when you dig in as the power tubes tubes bend under the load. part of it is tube rectification that the valve jr/benton lacks as well. part of it is the character of the preamp.

i can't really do it with my valve jr (similar amp). it's too voxy. however, my new 18W does it perfectly.

StickmanJam

what is this 18W amp you speak of?

exhausted wrote:

neck/middle position on the strat. roll the volume back slightly to give you some room to work with.

paco's idea of the lower gain preamp tube is excellent.

keep the gain on the pedals low as well.

all these guys you mentioned are playing cleaner than one would initially think and so much is done with playing dynamics. unfortunately, part of the magic is the high wattage amplifiers running quite clean that give this wonderful, lively, spongy quasi-dirty sound when you dig in as the power tubes tubes bend under the load. part of it is tube rectification that the valve jr/benton lacks as well. part of it is the character of the preamp.

i can't really do it with my valve jr (similar amp). it's too voxy. however, my new 18W does it perfectly.

exhausted

oh i just built a clone of the 18W marshall. it ended up having a really nice clean channel.

StickmanJam

exhausted wrote:

oh i just built a clone of the 18W marshall. it ended up having a really nice clean channel.

I've been told a lot about the 18w marshall, but cant seem to find it at musicians friend or anything, do you have a link to it? thanks

exhausted

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-1974X-Handwired-18W-1x12-Combo-Amp?sku=482706

i built mine for about 1/3 the cost. i don't think the marshall offers suitable value.

ianvomsaal

The Marshall 1974x is a really great amp, but it is fairly expensive for an 18watt amp.
Take a look at this, you can build one for just over a grand: Mojo 18 Watt Style Kit
Also search this sight, you may find another amp that suits your needs.

Different Strings - I think we covered this in another thread, but get these: DR Pure Blues
Bottom line, I haven't found a better string yet.
Cheers . . .

- Ian

Pacomc79

http://two-rock.com/products/overdrive

This is it man.. it'll get you there