Songfacts: One last question. How the heck did you get that slide harmonic in "Even Flow"?
Ament:
I was really obsessed with fretless bass at that time, so I was
listening to a lot of Jaco [Pastorius], I was listening to a lot of
[Japan's] Mick Karn, and I was listening to Tony Franklin, who at that
time was kind of the only rock guy who was playing fretless in a rock
band [The Firm, with Jimmy Page].
I knew at the beginning of
Pearl Jam that the way Stone was writing, it was very Jimmy Page – very
riffy. And because of Tony Franklin, I knew that fretless would add a
really cool voice and texture to rock music. So that harmonic, I'm kind
of ripping The Firm's "Radioactive."
And
I figured it out by accident. I was always obsessed with playing
harmonics on bass, but at some point I remember accidentally hitting
harmonics and sliding on it, so I started experimenting with that part
of it. So mistakes, and also having in the back of my head that sound of
"Radioactive." Hats off Tony Franklin!
Songfacts: Let's discuss some songs you've had a hand in writing over the years, starting with Pearl Jam's "Blood."
Ament:
I remember Stone had that riff. At that time, he was writing a lot of
those kind of riffs – super note-y. If you listen to a lot of those
songs from that time, the big melodies that are going through those
riffs are parts that I had written. He's playing almost every note in
the riff, so you just try to come up with some way to articulate the
riff that he's playing in a way that you hope that Ed can wrap the lyric
around.
That's the main thing that I remember about "Blood." How
do we give this thing a more simple melody that Ed can feel strongly
enough about that he'd want to put words over it? And I was really
obsessed at that time – bass-wise – with going back and forth between an
almost super-low-end dub sound and a super-aggro overdriven sound. That
song really shows that from a bass standpoint – it's going back and
forth between those two sounds.
Songfacts: How does the collaboration in Deaf Charlie compare to Pearl Jam?
Ament:
Deaf Charlie is just John and I, so it's less complicated in that it's
just a back and forth. And I love collaborating. I think the best
collaborations in a band may be when two people have an idea for a song
and then you let the band interpret that initial idea – those initial
words and those initial melodies.
With a band it can be trippy
finding that balance of letting the band take the song and it becoming a
"band song." And then if you're one of the writers, sometimes you miss
elements of your demo. But history has shown me that any band I've been
in – but in particular, in Pearl Jam – that the best songs are the songs
where we allow each other to bring something great to the table with
that song. That's when we really hit on stuff that is unique and
gratifying, when we allow each other that space.
Everybody in
Pearl Jam is such a great musician and has such great ears that you want
to lean on that as a songwriter. You want to use all the great aspects
that everybody can bring. But it's different. It's five people vs. two
people.
Greg Prato (Songfacts): How does the songwriting work in Deaf Charlie with John Wicks?
Jeff Ament:
Typically, the songs go back and forth a lot. But this group of songs
started with me recording a two-or-three-part demo version, and
oftentimes it was to a really basic drum loop or drum machine part. At
the beginning of the pandemic, I probably wrote 40 or 50 songs the first
three or four months. I was trying to write some kind of a song every
day at that point just as an exercise, but I wasn't doing anything else.
Initially,
I gave John a song with the idea we could rush something out and do a
quick visual thing to it, and we wound up doing a version of "Sittin'
Round At Home" by the Buzzcocks. And then that turned into, "Hey, what
if I give you another song?" A couple of months down the road, I sent
him 30 songs and said, "Pick 10 and let's just go back and forth with
these."
We
met in person a couple of times to talk about what style and what are
the parameters, and I was like, "No parameters. Let's go for it. Let's
take this into outer space if we can." I said, "I'm not precious about
any of these arrangements. You can chop them up as much as you want."
So, at the center of what we were doing was to take them as far as we
could and still retain the song to some degree.
A lot of times,
the keys would change - maybe he would change it from minor to major. He
would just leave the vocal in and put down a drum part and a couple of
keyboard parts, and then that turned into him reaching out to people
that played horns and played keyboards, and adding things that I
probably would never have put on songs.
But we were challenging
ourselves, because there was no intention to put it out. It was an
exercise to keep us from going crazy during those first few months.
Songfacts: Have you written lyrics for Pearl Jam songs?
Ament: There might be 10 Pearl Jam songs that I wrote lyrics to over the years. There was a point right when we made Yield
where Ed [Vedder] asked for help. For him to be in the studio by
himself at the end of making a record, trying to finish 12 or 13 songs,
it was just hard to be the only one left. So Yield, Stone [Gossard] and I each had a couple of complete songs.
Everybody's
brought complete songs, and sometimes they end up on records, sometimes
they don't. That's an incredible thing when you bring a complete song
in and let the band re-form it, and to have Ed reinterpret your words.
That's a really cool thing.
Songfacts: Can you give examples of Pearl Jam songs you brought in that were deconstructed or changed by the others?
Ament: There's a song called "Help Help," which was on Riot Act.
The demo that I did for it was a little bit more rock – a little bit
more Zeppelin-y. And then when the band got a hold of it, it just got a
little bit more "art project-y." It's a cool track when I listen to it
now. It sounds kind of psychedelic and almost like Jane's Addiction.
And
then there's a song musically that I brought in that Ed wrote lyrics to
called "Push Me, Pull Me" that was almost like an uptempo Police song,
and that got turned into a little bit more of an art project.
Everybody
hears this stuff in a different way. The only way you can be happy with
it is if you're open to everybody interpreting it and breaking it open
and changing it. I've learned to do that over the years.
Comments
Ament: I was really obsessed with fretless bass at that time, so I was listening to a lot of Jaco [Pastorius], I was listening to a lot of [Japan's] Mick Karn, and I was listening to Tony Franklin, who at that time was kind of the only rock guy who was playing fretless in a rock band [The Firm, with Jimmy Page].
I knew at the beginning of Pearl Jam that the way Stone was writing, it was very Jimmy Page – very riffy. And because of Tony Franklin, I knew that fretless would add a really cool voice and texture to rock music. So that harmonic, I'm kind of ripping The Firm's "Radioactive."
And I figured it out by accident. I was always obsessed with playing harmonics on bass, but at some point I remember accidentally hitting harmonics and sliding on it, so I started experimenting with that part of it. So mistakes, and also having in the back of my head that sound of "Radioactive." Hats off Tony Franklin!
Ament: Deaf Charlie is just John and I, so it's less complicated in that it's just a back and forth. And I love collaborating. I think the best collaborations in a band may be when two people have an idea for a song and then you let the band interpret that initial idea – those initial words and those initial melodies.
With a band it can be trippy finding that balance of letting the band take the song and it becoming a "band song." And then if you're one of the writers, sometimes you miss elements of your demo. But history has shown me that any band I've been in – but in particular, in Pearl Jam – that the best songs are the songs where we allow each other to bring something great to the table with that song. That's when we really hit on stuff that is unique and gratifying, when we allow each other that space.
Everybody in Pearl Jam is such a great musician and has such great ears that you want to lean on that as a songwriter. You want to use all the great aspects that everybody can bring. But it's different. It's five people vs. two people.
Jeff Ament: Typically, the songs go back and forth a lot. But this group of songs started with me recording a two-or-three-part demo version, and oftentimes it was to a really basic drum loop or drum machine part. At the beginning of the pandemic, I probably wrote 40 or 50 songs the first three or four months. I was trying to write some kind of a song every day at that point just as an exercise, but I wasn't doing anything else.
We met in person a couple of times to talk about what style and what are the parameters, and I was like, "No parameters. Let's go for it. Let's take this into outer space if we can." I said, "I'm not precious about any of these arrangements. You can chop them up as much as you want." So, at the center of what we were doing was to take them as far as we could and still retain the song to some degree.
A lot of times, the keys would change - maybe he would change it from minor to major. He would just leave the vocal in and put down a drum part and a couple of keyboard parts, and then that turned into him reaching out to people that played horns and played keyboards, and adding things that I probably would never have put on songs.
Ament: There might be 10 Pearl Jam songs that I wrote lyrics to over the years. There was a point right when we made Yield where Ed [Vedder] asked for help. For him to be in the studio by himself at the end of making a record, trying to finish 12 or 13 songs, it was just hard to be the only one left. So Yield, Stone [Gossard] and I each had a couple of complete songs.
Everybody's brought complete songs, and sometimes they end up on records, sometimes they don't. That's an incredible thing when you bring a complete song in and let the band re-form it, and to have Ed reinterpret your words. That's a really cool thing.
Songfacts: Can you give examples of Pearl Jam songs you brought in that were deconstructed or changed by the others?
Ament: There's a song called "Help Help," which was on Riot Act. The demo that I did for it was a little bit more rock – a little bit more Zeppelin-y. And then when the band got a hold of it, it just got a little bit more "art project-y." It's a cool track when I listen to it now. It sounds kind of psychedelic and almost like Jane's Addiction.
And then there's a song musically that I brought in that Ed wrote lyrics to called "Push Me, Pull Me" that was almost like an uptempo Police song, and that got turned into a little bit more of an art project.
Everybody hears this stuff in a different way. The only way you can be happy with it is if you're open to everybody interpreting it and breaking it open and changing it. I've learned to do that over the years.