effects loop question
gimmesometruth27
Posts: 23,112
I have always run my effects pedals through a powered pedal board in series with the output of the pedal board going into the input of the amp and it has always been fine. i haven't noticed any change in my signal. i did recently purchase a marshall jcm 900 with an effects loop and everybody i talk to recommends using the loop, but nobody can tell me why. why is this? will it make that much of a difference if i run it how i have always run it? are there any advantages or disadvantages to running the effects loop? paco, mig i know you guys know your shit, do you have any suggestions? thanks.
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Back in the days of dinosaurs, when tube amps were the only option, not just the best option (remember, Bob?) the only "effect" was to turn the amp up until it started distorting. A few folks who really liked this sound decided to try to build circuit boxes that would help an amp recreate this sound better, and at lower volumes. Other effects followed, as players wanted the types of effects they had in the studio when they played on stage. Reverb and tremolo showed up on amps, and pedals with delay, phase, flange, chorus, wah, fuzz, compression... you get the picture.
Then came along solid-state amps, which were more reliable and much cheaper. Unfortunately, they didn't get the same tone as a tube amp when it's pushed hard, so some manufacturers decided to put a distortion circuit in the amp and give players two (or more) channels, one of them a dedicated distortion channel.
So, to keep up, the tube amps had to change... players wanted this multi-channel versatility in their tube amps, too. So manufacturers started putting distortion channels in their tube amps. Hybrid amps and modelling amps followed in their due time.
Most players liked having an amp that could switch channels, but they noticed that certain effects didn't sound so good if they were in the signal path BEFORE the distortion of the amp. Especially delay, reverb, chorus, and other time-based effects. So, the amp manufacturers created a signal loop AFTER the amp's distortion, but before the power amp (and speakers) called an effects loop.
Now, to answer your question: if you don't use any channel switching, and use overdrive/distortion pedals, you won't notice a huge difference by using the FX loop. If you DO use the amp's distortion/drive, then the FX loop could be good for you, especially for any time-based FX.
Now, in your particular case, if your pedals sound great the way they are, there's no need to change, but if you want to try something out, go ahead and put it in the FX loop.
Now, to answer your question: if you don't use any channel switching, and use overdrive/distortion pedals, you won't notice a huge difference by using the FX loop. If you DO use the amp's distortion/drive, then the FX loop could be good for you, especially for any time-based FX.
Now, in your particular case, if your pedals sound great the way they are, there's no need to change, but if you want to try something out, go ahead and put it in the FX loop.[/quote]
thanks for the info, man. i mainly use the amp clean and distortion channels, but i use a rotosphere to accent my clean channel and use a maxon sonic distortion and jeckyl and hyde to give me a volume boost and accent my distortion channel for solos and such. when i plug into the JCM 900 i have noticed that my rotosphere sounds really shallow and kind of muddy when i play my board going straight into the amp. also my distortion pedals also sound hollow and treble-y. i am not sure if it is due to the high amount of gain in the 900 or what. i tried plugging my pedal board into the effects loop tonight and got nothing. i did get a high pitched hum, but nothing on either channel when i tried to strum some chords. maybe i hooked it up wrong. the stupid JCM manual gave me no answers on how to set up the fx loop and the pedal board book only had set up info for running to 2 amps in stereo, but nothing for mono. do you have any ideas what connection goes to what?
thanks.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Making sense?
Is there a control on the front or back for FX Loop mix/level?
While we're at it... what pedals are on your board? What specific model is your amp? Do you use a footswitch for channel switching?
thanks for the info. i tried to plug my whole board into the loop but it didn't really work out. so i then i plugged the rotosphere and chorus pedals into the effects loop and it seems to sound much better. there is an fx loop mix/volume dial on the back. the only problem is i can not get the levels right with the fx loop volume control. i guess i need to mess with it alot more.
the pedals i am currently running are:
boss chromatic tuner
crybaby wah
maxon sd9 sonic distortion
jeckyl and hyde
boss chorus
rotosphere
the amp is a jcm 900 4100 and i do use the footswith to switch between channels and reverb on/off.
right now i have everything going in the front of the amp except for the chorus and rotosphere that are going into the fx loop. its awkward how cluttered my board is now with how many cables i have going every which way but i will get used to it. i guess we'll see saturday at the gig how this set up sounds. i am taking my old head (laney TT50) just in case i can't get the sound i want.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
That's how I'd do it. Chorus can sound good before or after distortion, so that's a subjective call, but your RotoSphere will be a lot more predictable in the FX loop.
That is the one pain in the ass about FX loops... You'll just have to figure out a creative way to wire everything and keep it all neat. I'd lay your board out like this:
Guitar -> boss tuner -> crybaby wah -> maxon sd9 -> jeckyl and hyde -> amp
and then:
FX Send -> boss chorus -> rotosphere -> FX Return
Keep the pre-amplifier pedals together in a group and the FX-Loop pedals together in a group. Then you can run the three cables from the board to the amp along each other. You can even get three good cables and strap them together with little zip strips to turn them into one big cable, just be sure to label the ends somehow...
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It's a subjective call. I've always put my wah before my drive because an overdrive/distortion circuit can really help smooth out a wah. It's possible that your wah just doesn't interact well with your drive. But the big thing here is there are no unbreakable rules, just suggestions!
that is exactly how i laid everything out on the pedal board tonight. after several hours of knob tweaking and repositioning everything i think i got my board and fx loop how i want them. god what a pain in the ass that was. that is a great idea about making one big cable, i think i will try to arrange that one tomorrow. i just hope i don't have to go back to my laney right away b/c i would have to completely change everything back. my marshall was losing volume, like kind of cutting out a bit tongiht, all of the pedals worked fine and my cables are good. i think it was from the rotosphere though. it sounds like i will have to maybe get new tubes after the gig saturday, but my valve failure leds were off. i dunno, either that or the tube on my rotosphere is going bad. i bought it and my marshall used so there is no telling how old the valves are. fucking rotosphere.... i can't believe how expensive these pedals are and they only do one thing. thanks for your help. gst27
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."