Poster Question - Actual Gig Posters vs. Later Editions...

Neutrality

Hello Everyone,

I'm not a huge PJ concert poster collector, but I do have one from 1998 that is very special to me, and it's considered a "grail", I suppose.

I've had it since 1998, and it was acquired from someone who purchased it at the show, totally authentic, etc. 

Personally, I've always considered numbered, AP, etc. editions printed years after the fact (and sold via a website) to be a bit on the cheesy side, but even these are often considered to be grails, it seems!

So I suppose my question to way more experienced poster collectors would be this - are true purchased at show posters considered to be more important/desired than something printed years after the fact?   Does it depend on a particular poster?

I'm specifically not mentioning which poster, because I don't want to appear to be gloating or anything like that.   I'm just genuinely curious about this with the Yield anniversary happening, etc...

Any thoughts, etc. are much appreciated!

Lost In Ohio

At one point, the APs were, IIRC, supposed to be "proof" the artist's proof the posters existed or some such. Over time, the ink would run dry and the colors on later copies weren't as bold.

The US Mint does (did?) coin proof sets which are the same theory. "Here's proof the coins were made for this year."

Nowadays, that doesn't matter. Number 1/125 is the same exact quality as 125/125. Those are printed at the same time. The band gets their supply and the artist gets theirs....these AP copies are how the artist makes money off the art.

This Yield poster seems to be a different beast. I'd say it's more a reissue along the lines of the "streaming edition" Moline/Rome posters or the 2XL Ames posters.

But like the general AP/show edition...those are from the same original supply. It's just the artist signed some which gives them value.


...and I suppose that doesn't answer the question at all.

Neutrality

Lost In Ohio said:

At one point, the APs were, IIRC, supposed to be "proof" the artist's proof the posters existed or some such. Over time, the ink would run dry and the colors on later copies weren't as bold.

The US Mint does (did?) coin proof sets which are the same theory. "Here's proof the coins were made for this year."

Nowadays, that doesn't matter. Number 1/125 is the same exact quality as 125/125. Those are printed at the same time. The band gets their supply and the artist gets theirs....these AP copies are how the artist makes money off the art.

This Yield poster seems to be a different beast. I'd say it's more a reissue along the lines of the "streaming edition" Moline/Rome posters or the 2XL Ames posters.

But like the general AP/show edition...those are from the same original supply. It's just the artist signed some which gives them value.


...and I suppose that doesn't answer the question at all.

Sorry, I should clarify a little further. 

I don't think this one (and maybe all Yield posters) were sold at the shows with numbered editions on a website, right at the same time that the shows happened.  That's probably totally unlikely, because "web shops" were not happening in 1998 for like 99% of bands, that's for dang sure.  Pretty sure that wasn't even the case in the Binaural days.

I'm talking years after the fact that this poster was sold as a numbered edition - so suddenly, oh wow, now you can get it again, this time numbered and signed!

That is what I find to be really cheesy, but I don't know if collectors place more or less importance between the two?

on2legs

Neutrality said:

Lost In Ohio said:

At one point, the APs were, IIRC, supposed to be "proof" the artist's proof the posters existed or some such. Over time, the ink would run dry and the colors on later copies weren't as bold.

The US Mint does (did?) coin proof sets which are the same theory. "Here's proof the coins were made for this year."

Nowadays, that doesn't matter. Number 1/125 is the same exact quality as 125/125. Those are printed at the same time. The band gets their supply and the artist gets theirs....these AP copies are how the artist makes money off the art.

This Yield poster seems to be a different beast. I'd say it's more a reissue along the lines of the "streaming edition" Moline/Rome posters or the 2XL Ames posters.

But like the general AP/show edition...those are from the same original supply. It's just the artist signed some which gives them value.


...and I suppose that doesn't answer the question at all.

Sorry, I should clarify a little further. 

I don't think this one (and maybe all Yield posters) were sold at the shows with numbered editions on a website, right at the same time that the shows happened.  That's probably totally unlikely, because "web shops" were not happening in 1998 for like 99% of bands, that's for dang sure.  Pretty sure that wasn't even the case in the Binaural days.

I'm talking years after the fact that this poster was sold as a numbered edition - so suddenly, oh wow, now you can get it again, this time numbered and signed!

That is what I find to be really cheesy, but I don't know if collectors place more or less importance between the two?

Some posters were sold at shows signed and numbered in the 90s.  Almost all AP editions are released shortly after the concert.  Not years later.  And almost all AP’s are considered more valuable and collectible than the unsigned posters sold at shows because they’re signed and limited.  

mace1229

Neutrality said:

Lost In Ohio said:

At one point, the APs were, IIRC, supposed to be "proof" the artist's proof the posters existed or some such. Over time, the ink would run dry and the colors on later copies weren't as bold.

The US Mint does (did?) coin proof sets which are the same theory. "Here's proof the coins were made for this year."

Nowadays, that doesn't matter. Number 1/125 is the same exact quality as 125/125. Those are printed at the same time. The band gets their supply and the artist gets theirs....these AP copies are how the artist makes money off the art.

This Yield poster seems to be a different beast. I'd say it's more a reissue along the lines of the "streaming edition" Moline/Rome posters or the 2XL Ames posters.

But like the general AP/show edition...those are from the same original supply. It's just the artist signed some which gives them value.


...and I suppose that doesn't answer the question at all.

Sorry, I should clarify a little further. 

I don't think this one (and maybe all Yield posters) were sold at the shows with numbered editions on a website, right at the same time that the shows happened.  That's probably totally unlikely, because "web shops" were not happening in 1998 for like 99% of bands, that's for dang sure.  Pretty sure that wasn't even the case in the Binaural days.

I'm talking years after the fact that this poster was sold as a numbered edition - so suddenly, oh wow, now you can get it again, this time numbered and signed!

That is what I find to be really cheesy, but I don't know if collectors place more or less importance between the two?

I'm not a huge poster collector either, but I'm not aware of any APs being printed and sold years later by the artist. I was always told they are all printed together and the APs are part of the payment to the artist, to number and sell on their own.
Reprinting and number years later would be cheesey, and probably have little value.

trees

This helps me as well thanks for the clarification 

on2legs

Occasionally an artist will sign an original poster that was in their personal collection and put it up for sale years later.  Ward Sutton has done this recently.  But it’s usually just 1 print and they go for big money.  

Neutrality

mace1229 said:

I'm not a huge poster collector either, but I'm not aware of any APs being printed and sold years later by the artist. I was always told they are all printed together and the APs are part of the payment to the artist, to number and sell on their own.
Reprinting and number years later would be cheesey, and probably have little value.

So I'm curious - where did Ames Brothers sell those numbered/AP posters in 1998?   There was no limit to how many you could buy at the Yield gigs I saw, and no poster was ever numbered at the shows I saw.  

At that point in time, they definitely did not have some fancy website where you could get them with a few clicks of a mouse.

jonbond1779

So Ive been a pretty hardcore collectors of posters (first PJ and then deep into the sub culture of poster collecting) for over 20 years now...

Short answer: No.  All posters which are S/N / AP are just more desirable & more rare than the show runs.  S/N posters are generally in runs of 100's so are really sought after.  Also, its incredibly rare that an artist will do a run of gig posters years after the show - it's usually within 3 months of the show itself  (but can vary). 

Sometimes they might do a variation of the show poster (a la brad klausen) but this is not what you're asking. 

The there's the issue of the 'grails'.  Yes there are posters which are generally considered grails and these will always fetch more money and then there are certain artists which just fetch a much higher price than others (EG: TAZ, Tsang & EMEK) but again it also a question of artwork and personal connection to the poster or the show. 

SM187650

Here’s a question. Is it normal for AP’s to be out of 1000? I’m after a klausen print for Hamilton 2005. I found a seller that had one and it was numbered out of 1000 and signed by brad. That seems like a super high number for an AP. Anyone know if artists used to be allowed to make way more APs than their current allotment which is usually around 200? 

on2legs

According to ebeans, the run was 1050 and they’re signed and numbered.  The AP would be numbered out of a 100. 

zpalffy

Neutrality said:

mace1229 said:

I'm not a huge poster collector either, but I'm not aware of any APs being printed and sold years later by the artist. I was always told they are all printed together and the APs are part of the payment to the artist, to number and sell on their own.
Reprinting and number years later would be cheesey, and probably have little value.

So I'm curious - where did Ames Brothers sell those numbered/AP posters in 1998?   There was no limit to how many you could buy at the Yield gigs I saw, and no poster was ever numbered at the shows I saw.  

At that point in time, they definitely did not have some fancy website where you could get them with a few clicks of a mouse.

Ames Bros didn't have a website that far back, but you could buy posters from them through an email newsletter they sent out. I was on it at least as far back as early 2000 and got some good deals on S/N Yield and No Code tour posters

They also sold S/N copies of posters at art shows. They had one in NYC in June 2000 at the Max Fish bar where they sold S/N posters.

Not a website until maybe 2003, but they were selling S/N posters waaaay back. (they actually sold the infamous "missing link" posters for a very short time through that email newsletter.)

Neutrality

jonbond1779 said:

So Ive been a pretty hardcore collectors of posters (first PJ and then deep into the sub culture of poster collecting) for over 20 years now...

Short answer: No.  All posters which are S/N / AP are just more desirable & more rare than the show runs.  S/N posters are generally in runs of 100's so are really sought after.  Also, its incredibly rare that an artist will do a run of gig posters years after the show - it's usually within 3 months of the show itself  (but can vary). 

Sometimes they might do a variation of the show poster (a la brad klausen) but this is not what you're asking. 

The there's the issue of the 'grails'.  Yes there are posters which are generally considered grails and these will always fetch more money and then there are certain artists which just fetch a much higher price than others (EG: TAZ, Tsang & EMEK) but again it also a question of artwork and personal connection to the poster or the show. 

So even for say, the Australasian 1998 shows, that was a case where those numbered edition posters were purchased by folks within a few months' time via a newsletter or something like that?  

It seems like the numbered editions (at least sometimes) turn up way more frequently than posters bought at the actual show!

tempo_n_groove

zpalffy said:

Neutrality said:

mace1229 said:

I'm not a huge poster collector either, but I'm not aware of any APs being printed and sold years later by the artist. I was always told they are all printed together and the APs are part of the payment to the artist, to number and sell on their own.
Reprinting and number years later would be cheesey, and probably have little value.

So I'm curious - where did Ames Brothers sell those numbered/AP posters in 1998?   There was no limit to how many you could buy at the Yield gigs I saw, and no poster was ever numbered at the shows I saw.  

At that point in time, they definitely did not have some fancy website where you could get them with a few clicks of a mouse.

Ames Bros didn't have a website that far back, but you could buy posters from them through an email newsletter they sent out. I was on it at least as far back as early 2000 and got some good deals on S/N Yield and No Code tour posters

They also sold S/N copies of posters at art shows. They had one in NYC in June 2000 at the Max Fish bar where they sold S/N posters.

Not a website until maybe 2003, but they were selling S/N posters waaaay back. (they actually sold the infamous "missing link" posters for a very short time through that email newsletter.)

Good info and I have read the same about the Missing links.  If you are an Islanders fan then I approve this message.