weber minimass

exhausted

paco, i think you've had some experience with these. i'm looking at selling off my hotplate and buying a couple mini-masses (1 25W and 1 50W). i'll break even if i don't come out ahead.

seems to be much more cost effective than the hotplate solutions. i can't find reviews of the unit though.

Pacomc79

exhausted wrote:

paco, i think you've had some experience with these. i'm looking at selling off my hotplate and buying a couple mini-masses (1 25W and 1 50W). i'll break even if i don't come out ahead.

seems to be much more cost effective than the hotplate solutions. i can't find reviews of the unit though.

I wouldn't sell the hot plate just yet. I like my minimass because essentially for like 30 bucks I got a solid attenuator, however it might not be as clean and pristine as the THD. What the mass is is a metal box with a pot wired to a linear motor (speaker mag & voice coil.) It works fine, to my ears I think I lose a bit of sparkle (probably fixed on the EQ model) however, I can use my amp and fully saturate it when I get home at 2 AM and my roommate is asleep, put a price on that. I think it's a phenominal choice for the sovtek. Basically it's a great attenuator but I can't really compare it to the hotplate not having one, however spending another 300 on a HP for a 400 dollar amp is kind of silly huh. You'll get along well with the MASS. I say go for it, if you like it sell the HP and get another. I just would hate for you to sell it before you know what you are getting.

There are several attenuation options on Ted's site. You might read up on them and the E-mail, tell him you situation and ask him what he thinks might suit you best. He seems to be a pretty strait shooter to me.

exhausted

thanks man.

i won't unload the hotplate until i find something else i'm happy with.

i did track a couple opinions and they all mention the loss of some high end.

now, with my hotplate, i actually have the treble enhance off and the bass enhance on. i have a thing against high end i guess.

i think i'm going to order up a 50W mini for the sovtek for sure and see how it works out. the regular mass looks a little too unruly.

Pacomc79

exhausted wrote:

thanks man.

i won't unload the hotplate until i find something else i'm happy with.

i did track a couple opinions and they all mention the loss of some high end.

now, with my hotplate, i actually have the treble enhance off and the bass enhance on. i have a thing against high end i guess.

i think i'm going to order up a 50W mini for the sovtek for sure and see how it works out. the regular mass looks a little too unruly.

you'll like it fine I think. It's a smart choice especially when you consider the price of everything else. It's minimalist, probably the perfect choice for sovtek. It's got an on off switch too so you don't have to unplug if you want full out. I had to buy an extention cable but that's because Orange puts the jacks deep inside the cabinet above the tubes. It's set up to just sit on top of the head.

House53

I also had great success with the minimass with my Dr. Z Carmen Ghia... really effective. I used it at home and on gigs... as the night went on I would turn it up and then off, but my amp stayed the same setting all night.

Very good product, and the customer support there is fantastic. Mr. Webber is very quick to respond to questions and is always helpful.

exhausted

thanks guys. are yours set ohmage? they've changed the physical design now and an ohmage switch is on the front panel. that sold me because now i'm not limited for cabinet impedance.

Pacomc79

exhausted wrote:

thanks guys. are yours set ohmage? they've changed the physical design now and an ohmage switch is on the front panel. that sold me because now i'm not limited for cabinet impedance.

yeah, I had to custom order for 16 ohms. it was no big deal, that's cool he's got the ohmage switch. I'd like to have that too.

Mines not nearly as cool looking either....

exhausted

the price is higher though. these things are a lot bigger and bulkier now. the hotplates are sexier. these look like lab equipment but you can't argue with economy and flexibility.

the webers are limited by wattage and the thd by impedance so i guess you just choose which roadblock you're less likely to hit. for me it's wattage.

JofZ

The more I look into air brakes/attenuators the more I find builders warning not to use them. Every builder has said the same thing, use different tubes to drop the volume level and you wont be destroying the longevity of the amp.
I guess it makes a ton of sense.
I just ordered a JTM 45 clone and was going to use an attenuator, then I got into a long email discussion with the builder and he convinced me to look at the speakers, the cab size, the tubes, and I have chosen that route. I am not saying air brakes don't work, they do, I just don't know what they really do to the amp when you have it on 1 or 2 all the time and the preamp is cooking.

You can't win ever You'll never get full sound from a 5 watt amp and you'll never enjoy a 30 watt amp cranked at home, that is unless everyone including your neighbors either enjoy listening to you or are already deaf

exhausted

the cold reality of shared walls and (soon) a baby mean i have no choice. i've been problem free for 4 years so far using one so i just have to continue pressing my luck

who's_pearljam?

exhausted wrote:

the cold reality of shared walls and (soon) a baby mean i have no choice. i've been problem free for 4 years so far using one so i just have to continue pressing my luck

I'm just about to buy a 25 watter and a 50 watter Mini Mass, too, now that I'm sharing a wall.
I just moved into the city from a house where I could play loud, and Youthinkyou'reold and I sold our studio building last year. Now I have all these amps around that I can't use! Better to attenuate them and use them than let them sit.
I think the only long term damage you'll do, if any, is wear out replaceable parts, but I sure seemed to do that when those amps were on tour getting knocked around and played at full volume, too!

I can finally get some good use with my 1 watt Martone tube amp, too. That is a kick ass little thing.

exhausted

my vodka-rock rig is in three different pieces in three different places. i hope i get this thing assembled before mid-july.

cue the tom petty..

♪the waiting is the hardest part♪♪

i've gone over in my head how an attentuator could damage a tube amp and, if it's designed properly and you've matched impedance etc, i don't think it can. sure, you'll consume tubes but that's not abnormal anyway.

who's_pearljam?

exhausted wrote:

my vodka-rock rig is in three different pieces in three different places. i hope i get this thing assembled before mid-july.

cue the tom petty..

?the waiting is the hardest part??

i've gone over in my head how an attentuator could damage a tube amp and, if it's designed properly and you've matched impedance etc, i don't think it can. sure, you'll consume tubes but that's not abnormal anyway.

Exactly! I've seen a lot of smoke coming out of amps in my time, but never out of an attenuated one!

It is true that the impedance has to be right, but otherwise it would be just normal wear like you were playing cranked up anyway.
I borrowed a few and used them, and I think you can really find the sweet spot on regular amps with an attenuator. I never was a boutique amp person. I could always find what I wanted out of a Deluxe Reverb , Marshall, or Boogies or whatever by tweaking tubes and EQ's or boosting them somehow.

Pacomc79

these companies are agin it mainly because of the reduction in audio quality. The amp won't sound as good as it can sound attenuated, they frankly don't want the complaints. Unfortunately Even 18 watts is too loud for my house. Sure it stresses components, guess what, so does cranking the amp. Electronics operate best when you can keep them at room temp or slightly cooler. Blowing a fan on the tubes will help. Any time you play tubes full out it's going to wear them out faster and subsequently everything else. Tubes aren't that expensive, and they'll still last a good long while, I'm still on the first set in the Orange, since I got the attenuator I use it all the time. The amp doesn't know any difference between it and a speaker.

exhausted

the place i buy everything when i buy locally is finally carrying orange. finally.

who's_pearljam?

Pacomc79 wrote:

Electronics operate best when you can keep them at room temp or slightly cooler. Blowing a fan on the tubes will help.

This one needed a friggin air conditioner blowing on it!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/mynamehere/loud%20amps/IMG_1413.jpg

JofZ

Pacomc79 wrote:

these companies are agin it mainly because of the reduction in audio quality. The amp won't sound as good as it can sound attenuated, they frankly don't want the complaints. Unfortunately Even 18 watts is too loud for my house. Sure it stresses components, guess what, so does cranking the amp. Electronics operate best when you can keep them at room temp or slightly cooler. Blowing a fan on the tubes will help. Any time you play tubes full out it's going to wear them out faster and subsequently everything else. Tubes aren't that expensive, and they'll still last a good long while, I'm still on the first set in the Orange, since I got the attenuator I use it all the time. The amp doesn't know any difference between it and a speaker.

My tubes aren't cheap especially at 90 each for KT 66 and 300-400 for Mullard 12X
I am sure there is something to be said for complaints, but I have been told this by more then one builder in the last couple months. I think the reasoning behind it has to do more with the setting of the attenutor, these guys assume you will have it set low, which will put lots of load on the amp. It makes sense and there are ways of getting around volume if you use less efficient speakers and have an amp capable of running different tubes. I can drop just about anything into the JTM and it will suit many different needs, but nothing will sound like cranked KT 66s.
I completely feel for everyone on this subject as it is so important to be able to use what you buy. I live in a large home with neighbors about 40 feet from me on either side, and once my amp is over 5 they come a knocking. The windows start to rattle, the floor and foundation as well. I have bought some sound insulation materials and the vibrations are much more controlled now, I still get dirty looks from the neighbobrs though

I just haven't found a 1,3 or 5 watt amp that has any tone I am interested in owning. I am looking at Gabriels Voxer now as he is a local builder and his stuff is the shit!
http://www.gabtone.com/

exhausted

JofZ wrote:

I just haven't found a 1,3 or 5 watt amp that has any tone I am interested in owning. I am looking at Gabriels Voxer now as he is a local builder and his stuff is the shit!
http://www.gabtone.com/

now those are some snazzy looking amps.

Pacomc79

check out London Canada's http://www.londonpower.com/amps.htm for a good read on his power scaling.

Also look up Mavin Peal (linked from london amps site) for 2 schools of on amp attenuation.

If you're really serious about it and you have the change, Power Scaling seems like its a great way to go.

JofZ

Yes, those Gabi amps are beautiful!
Pac, I did some reading it looks like the power scaling is another option but I would have to hear it to believe it. I guess there just has to be a down side, if not I would look into the technology. The DIY kits are reasonable under $200, there are no other prices available.

Pacomc79

JofZ wrote:

Yes, those Gabi amps are beautiful!
Pac, I did some reading it looks like the power scaling is another option but I would have to hear it to believe it. I guess there just has to be a down side, if not I would look into the technology. The DIY kits are reasonable under $200, there are no other prices available.

probably because they are expensive as hell. You'll have to e-mail him for that. That and he's probably not building anything right now because he's working on the book.

I'd like to try out the gabi's.

JofZ

Pacomc79 wrote:

probably because they are expensive as hell. You'll have to e-mail him for that. That and he's probably not building anything right now because he's working on the book.

I'd like to try out the gabi's.

Yeah it said he is too busy writing to build anything oh well.

I saw Gabi's amps at the show a couple weeks ago, I didn't care for the yellow, they stick out though, you could spot his booth from across the floor.
From what I gather he is one of the few guys building true AC15 clones, and the Voxer is where the money is at, bluesbreaker and ac15 in the same box.

check the 18watt page there a ton of threads on him, and of course supporting a Chicago builder is a plus

mccreadyisgod

A fan is actually a great idea... the nice thing about having a separate speaker cab from your amp is that you can place the amp head in a place isolated from the cab for recording, and put a fan on the head, and not worry about overheating OR fan noise in your guitar track.

The big thing mfg's worry about with their amps being used with attenuators is the tendancy to play the amp cranked for long periods of time. Keep in mind the "wattage-before-distortion" theory for amp power ratings... that output level is what the electronics are optomised for. So, if you crank an amp enough to get overdrive, you're working your amp harder than it was designed for. It'll eat tubes a hell of a lot faster, and affect anything else electronic over time. The 2 biggest enemies of electronic equipment are heat and water, after all. So long as you know you're pushing limits, and take steps to minimize those effects, you should be fine. Most players will get an attenuator, plug it in, and spend three hours playing cranked power chords. I think most of us are smart enough to know better.

Ultimately, a fan is the cheapest and easiest way to protect your gear and still get that superfat drive/saturation. The second-best method: Isolation cabinets!