The New Babel (why the last 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid)

HughFreakingDillon

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

I just read this article and I think it’s incredibly insightful and useful reading to everyone, regardless of political affiliation. 

Indifference

Agreed - author was on Bari Weiss podcast this week to discuss it if interested:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-the-past-10-years-of-american-life-have/id1570872415?i=1000557220618

HughFreakingDillon

honestly, I've deleted my social media accounts more than I can count because I go back and forth with wanting to be connected but then I notice a real trend in my mood from reading all the rage all day long. And it's absolutely right, and it has been mentioned here many many times; people like MTG and AOC ARE in fact the fringe minority; they are just the loudest with the loudest supporters. 

static111

This is a great article and I would recommend that everyone that participates on AMT should give it some consideration.

FiveBelow

Good read. Now if only there was a way to condense it to 280 characters or less.

static111

FiveBelow said:

Good read. Now if only there was a way to condense it to 280 characters or less.

and retweet

Halifax2TheMax

Which side are you on? Which side is most supportive of the reforms listed? Why no mention of the dark money in politics and as a potential reform?

And some said that it couldn't happen here.

I have met the enemy and they are us.

In early 2017, Peter McIndoe, now 23, was studying psychology at the University of Arkansas, and visiting friends in Memphis, Tennessee. He tells me this over Zoom from the US west coast, and has the most arresting face – wide-eyed, curious and intense, like the lead singer of an indie band, or a young monk. “This was right after the Donald Trump election, and things were really tense. I remember people walking around saying they felt as if they were in a movie. Things felt so unstable.”

It was the weekend of simultaneous Women’s Marches across the US (indeed, the world), and McIndoe looked out of the window and noticed “counterprotesters, who were older, bigger white men. They were clear aggravators. They were encroaching on something that was not their event, they had no business being there.” Added to that, “it felt like chaos, because the world felt like chaos”.

McIndoe made a placard, and went out to join the march. “It’s not like I sat down and thought I’m going to make a satire. I just thought: ‘I should write a sign that has nothing to do with what is going on.’ An absurdist statement to bring to the equation.”

That statement was “birds aren’t real”. As he stood with the counterprotesters, and they asked what his sign meant, he improvised. He said he was part of a movement that had been around for 50 years, and was originally started to save American birds, but had failed. The “deep state” had destroyed them all, and replaced them with surveillance drones. Every bird you see is actually a tiny feathered robot watching you.

Someone was filming him and put it on Facebook; it went viral, and Memphis is still the centre of the Birds Aren’t Real movement. Or is it a movement? You could call it a situationist spectacle, a piece of rolling performance art or a collective satire. MSNBC called it a “mass coping mechanism” for generation Z, and as it has hundreds of thousands of followers on social media, “mass”, at least, is on the money.

It’s the most perfect, playful distillation of where we are in relation to the media landscape we’ve built but can’t control, and which only half of us can find our way around. It’s a made-up conspiracy theory that is just realistic enough, as conspiracies go, to convince QAnon supporters that birds aren’t real, but has just enough satirical flags that generation Z recognises immediately what is going on. It’s a conspiracy-within-a-conspiracy, a little aneurysm of reality and mockery in the bloodstream of the mad pizzagate-style theories that animate the “alt-right”.

Birds Aren’t Real didn’t stay in Memphis – in a sequence reminiscent of the Winklevoss scene in The Social Network, when they realise just how big Facebook has become, McIndoe recalls being back at college, five hours away from Memphis. “I remember seeing videos of people chanting: ‘Birds aren’t real,’ at high-school football games; and seeing graffiti of birds aren’t real. At first, I thought: ‘This is crazy,’ but then I wondered: ‘What is making this resonate with people?’”

‘The lunacy is getting more intense’: how Birds Aren’t Real took on the conspiracy theorists | QAnon | The Guardian

HughFreakingDillon

thinking that only one side is guilty of everything is part of the problem. 

Halifax2TheMax

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I won't quote you since you scroll on by.

I don't think, if that was directed at me, that "one side is guilty of everything." I simply asked a couple of questions because the article pointed out the effects on "both sides" and potential reforms. My take is that one side is a "better" side to be aligned with and that one side is more accepting or has a willingness to implement some of the posited reforms.

You, general you, want to help solve the problem? Stop giving your kids cell phones, paying their bill and allowing them to spend so much time on screens. Make them go outside or to the library or be bored.

HughFreakingDillon

Halifax2TheMax said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I won't quote you since you scroll on by.

I don't think, if that was directed at me, that "one side is guilty of everything." I simply asked a couple of questions because the article pointed out the effects on "both sides" and potential reforms. My take is that one side is a "better" side to be aligned with and that one side is more accepting or has a willingness to implement some of the posited reforms.

You, general you, want to help solve the problem? Stop giving your kids cell phones, paying their bill and allowing them to spend so much time on screens. Make them go outside or to the library or be bored.

I only scroll on by when it's the same old "no collusion..." posts. I read the rest. 

the cell phone thing is much more complicated than just "stop giving them to your kids". the social pressure is immense. there is nothing comparable to my generation (X). your kid doesn't have a phone? social pariah. your kid has a cell phone? spends too much time on it constantly. and apple's parental controls are fucking awful. obviously, they want everyone to be on their phones as much as possible, so why wouldn't they suck? it's infuriating. I never thought a good portion of my parenting years would be dealing with "screen time" and trying to police every thing they do on it. it's not nearly as easy and cut and dry as you think it is. 

Halifax2TheMax

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I won't quote you since you scroll on by.

I don't think, if that was directed at me, that "one side is guilty of everything." I simply asked a couple of questions because the article pointed out the effects on "both sides" and potential reforms. My take is that one side is a "better" side to be aligned with and that one side is more accepting or has a willingness to implement some of the posited reforms.

You, general you, want to help solve the problem? Stop giving your kids cell phones, paying their bill and allowing them to spend so much time on screens. Make them go outside or to the library or be bored.

I only scroll on by when it's the same old "no collusion..." posts. I read the rest. 

the cell phone thing is much more complicated than just "stop giving them to your kids". the social pressure is immense. there is nothing comparable to my generation (X). your kid doesn't have a phone? social pariah. your kid has a cell phone? spends too much time on it constantly. and apple's parental controls are fucking awful. obviously, they want everyone to be on their phones as much as possible, so why wouldn't they suck? it's infuriating. I never thought a good portion of my parenting years would be dealing with "screen time" and trying to police every thing they do on it. it's not nearly as easy and cut and dry as you think it is. 

I can remember a time in my misspent youth when 200 person keg parties were held in the woods and you’d find yourself there. All without social media. Imagine that?

I realize it’s not as cut and dry as you think I think it is but if more parents spent more time parenting and allowed their kids to be free rangers, there might be a chance of breaking this stupid cycle.

I was at brunch, or more apt, a late breakfast the other day and the table next to mine had two kids, one maybe 6-8 the other a 6-8 month old, but a baby. I was admiring the baby’s cuteness, particularly their hair all fired up as only baby hair can be. I noticed the baby was very intently engaged with something, very focused, quiet, staring intently and seemingly happy. Then I noticed the cell phone propped against a dish with a video playing. And I thought there goes humanity and I’m so glad that shit didn’t exist when I was a kid. But to each their own. Good luck.

jerparker20

This article was great.

HughFreakingDillon

Yes, I had that same experience, but you are speaking about a reality that largely no longer exists. we can debate all day long the causes and what we should all collectively do about it, and how this generation's youth are misguided/wasting their lives/etc, but that's pissing into the wind. it won't happen unless this generation decides on its own to do something about it. I can give my individual kid all the rules I want, but it won't change the collective unless she and her friends decide on their own that it was the right thing to do. and sadly, that currently is not the case. my younger one spends less time on screens more time with friends, and that gives me hope. 

I'm sure you remember how you reacted to your parents when they'd give you the "back in my day" speeches. we rolled our eyes. we told ourselves our generation is different. and we were right. and so were they. so it's a stalemate of generational thinking. all we can do is show them the outside world and hope they find it's more rewarding than the inside one. 

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I won't quote you since you scroll on by.

I don't think, if that was directed at me, that "one side is guilty of everything." I simply asked a couple of questions because the article pointed out the effects on "both sides" and potential reforms. My take is that one side is a "better" side to be aligned with and that one side is more accepting or has a willingness to implement some of the posited reforms.

You, general you, want to help solve the problem? Stop giving your kids cell phones, paying their bill and allowing them to spend so much time on screens. Make them go outside or to the library or be bored.

I only scroll on by when it's the same old "no collusion..." posts. I read the rest. 

the cell phone thing is much more complicated than just "stop giving them to your kids". the social pressure is immense. there is nothing comparable to my generation (X). your kid doesn't have a phone? social pariah. your kid has a cell phone? spends too much time on it constantly. and apple's parental controls are fucking awful. obviously, they want everyone to be on their phones as much as possible, so why wouldn't they suck? it's infuriating. I never thought a good portion of my parenting years would be dealing with "screen time" and trying to police every thing they do on it. it's not nearly as easy and cut and dry as you think it is. 

Not just kids that have a problem w screen time.  My 60yo cousin loves tik tok...  LOVES it!  Stupid dumb stuff on there man... 

dankind

https://youtu.be/qXX05S6tiRk

HughFreakingDillon

for sure, I just think it's more detrimental to kids because of the danger of becoming an unbreakable habit. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I get it. I get the draw. I kept ignoring those facebook invites from friends for a long time, thinking it was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard of. One day, I thought "ok, I'll see what the fuss is about". it literally became all consuming for me (this was pre-kids). I was showing up late for work because I was checking the status of a "friend" from high school I hadn't spoken to in 20 years. it was absurd. they really have figured out how to tap into what addicts people to things like this. If I was a kid today I'd be on my phone all day long too if my parents allowed it. no question. that's why I laugh at older generations who judge the next/current generation for the stupid shit they do. but there's no way in hell that if cell phones existed in past generations they wouldn't have behaved in exactly the same way. 

tempo_n_groove

dankind said:

https://youtu.be/qXX05S6tiRk

Nice.  

Halifax2TheMax

I wonder why the author only chose ‘Murica as being stupid for the past ten years? Do all social media users reside in ‘Murica? Has not the world been made stoopit by all forms of “social” media? Is the US an island unto itself?

Sure, the more I think about it, the more I blame “screens.”

Kill your television.

mickeyrat

idk. these platforms originated here.  

Halifax2TheMax

mickeyrat said:

idk. these platforms originated here.  

Their spread and use is not only ‘Murica’s responsibility. Not to mention that other nations have copy catted. If only they had guns.

mickeyrat

leader of the free world blah blah blah.  

heres a thought. email that writer.

Halifax2TheMax

mickeyrat said:

leader of the free world blah blah blah.  

heres a thought. email that writer.

Maybe express an original thought???

brianlux

Excellent article, thanks!

I know I think/talk about this too much for the good of my own mental health, but this stood out for me:

"The many analysts, including me, who had argued that Trump could not win the general election were relying on pre-Babel intuitions, which said that scandals such as the Access Hollywood tape (in which Trump boasted about committing sexual assault) are fatal to a presidential campaign. But after Babel, nothing really means anything anymore––at least not in a way that is durable and on which people widely agree."

And yeah, it's just going to get worse.  The things people believe, the low-grade lack of values so many Americans adhere to and accept in people in prominent positions, the decline and potential fall of democracy, the demise of critical thinking.  It's getting more and more difficult to maneuver through this society without the mental assault of watching a once strong and creative society fall to ruin.  Living through the end of empire.  What a way to go.

mickeyrat

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

leader of the free world blah blah blah.  

heres a thought. email that writer.

Maybe express an original thought???

you asked us why that writer focused on the u.s. who but that writer would know?

I did offer 2 reasons why it was that way

personally I dont care why. its one persons opinion.