Ukraine

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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    This is another huge geopolitical win for Biden and the West.  Congrats to @Spiritual_Chaos and Sweden for clearing the path into NATO.  Erdogan agreeing to send the question to their parliament feels like a done deal.  And it puts a huge wedge between Turkey and Russia, who were growing very close before the war.  Hungary already said they would not be the only country to stand in the way.  

    Every objective Putin set out at the beginning of the war has failed.  https://wapo.st/3JQI33K

    oh btw, this isn't on Fox News that I can find.  
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,112
    I wonder if NATO grants membership to Ukraine will that cause Putin to withdraw all military from Ukraine?  He can't think he has a chance agains all of NATO.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    static111 said:
    I wonder if NATO grants membership to Ukraine will that cause Putin to withdraw all military from Ukraine?  He can't think he has a chance agains all of NATO.
    It's a good question.  I'd be surprised if they received membership during the war, but that would send quite the signal.  Although I really doubt the NATO powers would then amass an army and send it in.  That's way to provocative.  
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602

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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    static111 said:
    I wonder if NATO grants membership to Ukraine will that cause Putin to withdraw all military from Ukraine?  He can't think he has a chance agains all of NATO.
    This from the Post today.. 

    VILNIUS, Lithuania — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky criticized NATO leaders as they begin their annual summit in the Baltic nation. In a tweet, he said, “wording is being discussed without Ukraine” the gives little clarity on his country’s prospects for accession to the bloc, in apparent reference to draft text that has been circulated. Kyiv wants specific pledges on when and how it can join the defense alliance.

    With the Biden administration among those reluctant to set clear preconditions for Ukraine while the war with Russia is ongoing, the key question for the alliance may be what else it can negotiate during the two-day summit to provide reassurance to Kyiv and send an unequivocal message to Moscow. Member states also are set to discuss further military aid and political support for Ukraine.

  • Vitalogensia
    Vitalogensia Posts: 2,206
    edited July 2023
    Hung out with my very conservative parents over the weekend, and they told me how the US is running out of ammunitions because of this war.  Sounded like Fox News fear mongering (this is what the Chinese planned for!) but there does seem to be a decent amount of coverage of the topic throughout 2023.  I know very little about the military, especially when it comes to weapons inventory and supply chains.  Does anyone know if this is really occurring, and if so, how big of an issue it is?
    Post edited by Vitalogensia on
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    Vitalogensia said:
    Hung out with my very conservative parents over the weekend, and they told me how the US is running out of ammunitions because of this war.  Sounded like Fox News fear mongering (this is what the Chinese planned for!) but there does seem to be a decent amount of coverage of the topic throughout 2023.  I know very little about the military, especially when it comes to weapons inventory and supply chains.  Does anyone know if this is really occurring, and if so, how big of an issue it is?
    Ah no.  We're not running out of munitions.  What Biden said is that we were lower than normal on Cluster Munitions specifically.  But of course Fox turned that comment into "we're low on ammo". 

    But think of it this way.  99% of our hardware is NEVER used in combat.  It ends up being destroyed, sold to other countries or being sold as military surplus (smaller weapons).  The fact that we are giving it to Ukraine who is using it to fight and kill our strategic enemy without sacrificing on US life is seriously the best of all possible scenarios.  

    And the result so far is:
    1. Russia is dramatically weakened both politically and militarily
    2. China has pulled back from Russia in its relationship
    3. Finland and Sweden have joined NATO, which they refused to do before
    4. Turkey has split from Russia and agreed to allow Sweden to join

    Seriously, this could not have worked out better so far.  Now Ukraine still needs to win the war, and force Russia out, but strategically this has been a gift to the US and the western powers.  
  • Vitalogensia
    Vitalogensia Posts: 2,206
    mrussel1 said:
    Vitalogensia said:
    Hung out with my very conservative parents over the weekend, and they told me how the US is running out of ammunitions because of this war.  Sounded like Fox News fear mongering (this is what the Chinese planned for!) but there does seem to be a decent amount of coverage of the topic throughout 2023.  I know very little about the military, especially when it comes to weapons inventory and supply chains.  Does anyone know if this is really occurring, and if so, how big of an issue it is?
    Ah no.  We're not running out of munitions.  What Biden said is that we were lower than normal on Cluster Munitions specifically.  But of course Fox turned that comment into "we're low on ammo". 

    But think of it this way.  99% of our hardware is NEVER used in combat.  It ends up being destroyed, sold to other countries or being sold as military surplus (smaller weapons).  The fact that we are giving it to Ukraine who is using it to fight and kill our strategic enemy without sacrificing on US life is seriously the best of all possible scenarios.  

    And the result so far is:
    1. Russia is dramatically weakened both politically and militarily
    2. China has pulled back from Russia in its relationship
    3. Finland and Sweden have joined NATO, which they refused to do before
    4. Turkey has split from Russia and agreed to allow Sweden to join

    Seriously, this could not have worked out better so far.  Now Ukraine still needs to win the war, and force Russia out, but strategically this has been a gift to the US and the western powers.  
    I appreciate the intel!  It's one of those things that didn't make sense to me, but I didn't know how to make sense of it due to my military ignorance.  
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    mickeyrat said:

    Is this two assassinations of high ranking officers in two days??
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:

    Is this two assassinations of high ranking officers in two days??

    appears so.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602
    edited July 2023
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:

    Is this two assassinations of high ranking officers in two days??

    aappears so.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    mickeyrat said:

    So this is really interesting and I need to find out more information about how Crimea is fortified.  The Kerch bridge connects Ukraine to Russia in the easy.  The northern "border" connects to Ukraine and has multiple entries.  So if the Ukrainians are striking that bridge, are they doing it with rockets from afar, or are they on the Crimean mainland?  

    As an aside, this is a real time map that tracks the lines and has notes on activity along the front.  You can see how many areas are "forward".  https://liveuamap.com/

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