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Jan 6, One Year Later...

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 36,174
    Parksy said:
    brianlux said:
    Parksy said:
    I think the overall scope of what happened on Jan 6 and the division that's still ongoing is all very, very, very bad.  As someone pointed out, if what I'm opining on is correct, then it shouldn't serve as a notion of being relieved and brushed off, but actually a notion of... 'we may have gotten lucky this time around.' 

    What I saw just seems so contrast to what a lot of the left media are trying to provoke.  Another way that I look at it would be comparing (apples and oranges I get it) the election frustrations with medical mandate frustrations. 

    For any Canadians familiar with ultra super doosh Chris Sky will know what I mean here.  He's taken on a complex of being a sort of focal point for rebelling against COVID restrictions and even with his enthusiasm I'm not entirely convinced that he's that far gone to be taking his issues super seriously. I honestly think he's doing a lot of this for attention and show. I've seen first hand these 'protesters' and anti-vax, anti-lockdown, anti- everything people. What I can't help but observe is how many of these folks are more focused on filming what their doing on their phones and streaming it than actually trying to disrupt anything. 

    Looking at January 6th, I see the same thing.  I think a lot of people involved were there for attention, and took part in mob mentality rioting not unlike when Vancouver lost the Stanley Cup finals. There were obviously folks there looking to do some serious damage and cause some serious problems....  but not all of them. From what I saw there were more people that seemed more akin to disgruntled sports fans than insurrectionists. The proof to me is right in the videos. A planned violent insurrection to me at least doesn't involve what could be best described as mischief and property damage. Stealing podiums, pooping in hallways, posing for photos.  It was absolutely absurd. 

    Like you have to ask yourself... when you see those idiots that breached the building... did they seem organized? Or did it seem like they got there and thought "ok, now what?" I'm on the opinion that most of them were like "OK, now what."

    What is frightful is what would happen if you separated the simple attention seeking morons and social media personalities with legit, armed insurrectionists with a legit plan. 

    Someone else also pointed out that it's perhaps being under blown.  To that there is some validity. What I'm saying in terms of mob mentality could have (we don't know for sure) but could have dissolved into a sinister chaos.  Those chanting 'hang Mike Pence' .... I'm not convinced they would actually go through with that if the man was all of a sudden exposed. But what's scary, is I could be very wrong. 

    As far as provoking, again, don't look at popular media which is so much a joke, left or right.  Look at the incidents, the things that are actually happening.  Who is doing the provoking?  It is the right who became insurrectionists.  It is the right who want o make voting difficult for certain populations.  Who are denying the severity of COVID.  Who are pushing gerrymandering. 

    "Looking at January 6th, I see the same thing.  I think a lot of people involved were there for attention, and took part in mob mentality rioting not unlike when Vancouver lost the Stanley Cup finals."
    I don't see where you get that comparison.  Trump and the far right urged these insurrectionists on. Yes, a lot of it was mob behavior, but you can bet there was planning behind this as well.  I would be very cautious about writing this off as mere sports fan crowd behavior.

    It's more the mentality and psychology of it for the comparison.  It doesn't seem logical to believe that normal people can do crazy shit... but it does happen under the dumbest circumstances... such as the Cup finals in Vancouver.  That night in Vancouver unfolded one moment at a time and was brought on by simple mob mentality. Like a building wave that crashes. Folks who were at their day job as accountants during the day were then seen flipping over cop cars at night.   It's the idea that when people are caught up in a particularly emotional state, crazy things can happen and it can make people do crazy things that they would not have ordinarily done. 

    I think that played a large role in Jan 6th... especially the absurd characters involved.  There were some... obviously who had planned some sinister shit... but to lump them all into the same category is iaccurate imo.

    Regarding the media... the left play the same game as the right maybe just not as dirty. I saw the most interesting clip yesterday from the Daily Show where they (brilliantly) edited Fox News' coverage of BLM riots but used the Jan 6th footage. It was remarkable and glaring.  They (Fox) try to generate a narrative that if one rioter throws something at a cop or hucks a brick through a window then they are all guilty of the same crime and part of some large plan to cause chaos and destruction.   I see the left at times doing the same thing with Jan 6. 

    To say that the totality of Jan 6 was a violent insurrection orchestrated by Trump is just factually wrong in my opinion.  Some pundits and left wing media are trying to drive that point and I think sticking with the facts and being patient is prudent. Call out the truth and facts for what it is and was... which is awful.... historically and severely.. but don't get caught playing the same game your enemy (Fox) does. 
    "It doesn't seem logical to believe that normal people can do crazy shit... but it does happen under the dumbest circumstances... "
    Perhaps not at some point in our history.  But it has happened historically and is happening now, especially when those people are zealots or true believers or sheep, and especially when prompted and urged on by the people they are followers on.  These people are part of a political cult.

    "Regarding the media..."
    I'm not inclined to further discuss what is referred to as "as the media".  That is too broad a subject and there are too many media sources that do not actually provide factual news.

    "To say that the totality of Jan 6 was a violent insurrection orchestrated by Trump..."
    No, of course it was not totally orchestrated by Trump.  I never said that nor meant to imply that.  But he did urge these people on.

    "...but don't get caught playing the same game your enemy (Fox) does."
    Don't worry.  No problem there.  :lol: 



    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,430
    i remember thinking as I watched this happen that "this is kind of what I imagined hulkamania running wild would have looked like."
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,430
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,430
    i wonder if house republicans all went to a babbitt memorial or something.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,583
    i wonder if house republicans all went to a babbitt memorial or something.
    There was supposed to be a rally for the J6 prisoners outside the DC jail. I don’t know if it was held or attended.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,583
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,430
    i have never heard this. scary. they tried to kill the first african american vice president.

    Vice President Harris was inside the DNC on Jan. 6 when pipe bomb was found outside


    Vice President Kamala Harris was inside the Democratic National Committee headquarters on Jan. 6, 2021, when a pipe bomb was found outside the building, a White House official confirmed to ABC News.

    She was then evacuated.

    Capitol Police began investigating the pipe bomb on Jan. 6, 2021 at 1:07 p.m., according to an official Capitol Police timeline of events Politico reports it obtained, and Secret Service evacuated a "protectee" at approximately 1:14 p.m, seven minutes later. Sources confirmed to Politico that Harris was the "protectee" who was referred to in the timeline.


    the rest of the article can be found here:

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/vice-president-harris-inside-dnc-jan-pipe-bomb/story?id=82120480&cid=social_twitter_abcn

    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 36,174
    i have never heard this. scary. they tried to kill the first african american vice president.

    Vice President Harris was inside the DNC on Jan. 6 when pipe bomb was found outside


    Vice President Kamala Harris was inside the Democratic National Committee headquarters on Jan. 6, 2021, when a pipe bomb was found outside the building, a White House official confirmed to ABC News.

    She was then evacuated.

    Capitol Police began investigating the pipe bomb on Jan. 6, 2021 at 1:07 p.m., according to an official Capitol Police timeline of events Politico reports it obtained, and Secret Service evacuated a "protectee" at approximately 1:14 p.m, seven minutes later. Sources confirmed to Politico that Harris was the "protectee" who was referred to in the timeline.


    the rest of the article can be found here:

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/vice-president-harris-inside-dnc-jan-pipe-bomb/story?id=82120480&cid=social_twitter_abcn


    Very serious shit.  I can't believe the most any of these people has gotten so far for these actions is a little over 5 years in prison.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,301
    Just looking at all the right wing push back against Harris comparing Jan 6th to Pearl Harbour and 9/11 and predictably they're missing the mark here. 

    I don't think she was comparing the acts in general but moreso saying that America will likely forever remember January 6th and to her point I think she's correct.  

    The overall scope of what happened is what makes it so remarkably memorable.  You can compare the death and destruction certainly, but the biggest X factor here is the fact that this was perpetrated by American citizens and politicians against American citizens and politicians.  
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 12,806
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

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  • mfc2006mfc2006 HOU-->PDX-->KCPosts: 35,195
    Ridiculous & infuriating at the same time. Bizarro world we are living in.
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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 4,032
    Ted Cruz is such a gutless weasel. There are a lot of people to hate in that party but I don't think anyone is as much of a butt-kissing, spineless chump as Ted.
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 12,806
    OnWis97 said:
    Ted Cruz is such a gutless weasel. There are a lot of people to hate in that party but I don't think anyone is as much of a butt-kissing, spineless chump as Ted.
    agreed....he kissed tRump's ass after tRump insulted his wife and father.  What a fucking spineless douche.

    Let's not forget this beauty


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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 12,806


    perhaps the greatest booger ever eaten
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,583
    If you don't think it can happen again, or still think "it can't happen here," I've got news for you. Just listen, or at least be aware of the shit that is out there and how popular it is. Bodes well for the Republik, dontcha say?

    Dan Bongino, one of America’s most popular conservative commentators, lives in the seaside city of Stuart, Florida, less than an hour from Mar-a-Lago, where his friend Donald Trump bridles against a forced retirement. Every weekday from noon to three—the coveted time slot once held by the late Rush Limbaugh—“The Dan Bongino Show” goes live across the United States, beginning with an announcer’s voice over the sound of hard-rock guitars: “From the N.Y.P.D. to the Secret Service to behind the microphone, taking the fight to the radical left and the putrid swamp.”

    Bongino draws an estimated 8.5 million radio listeners a week, making him the fourth most listened to host in America, ahead of Mark Levin, Glenn Beck, and other big names, according to Talkers magazine, which covers the industry. Though he came to broadcasting only after three unsuccessful runs for Congress, he now commands a Fox News program on Saturday nights, a podcast that has ranked No. 1 on iTunes, and a Web site that repackages stories into some of the most highly trafficked items on social media. In recent months, according to Facebook data, his page has attracted more engagement than those of the Times, the Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal combined.

    These days, his story line has expanded to encompass President Joe Biden—a “disgraceful, disgusting, grotesque bag of bones”—as well as his son Hunter. “The F.B.I. and the C.I.A., members of it, unquestionably tried to rig both the 2016 and 2020 election,” Bongino told his audience. In the latter, he explained, “they didn’t put out bad information on someone—they hid information about Joe Biden and his corrupt son.”

    “A corrupted intelligence community, in conjunction with a corrupt media, will eat this country like a cancer from the inside out,” Bongino told his audience, as he built to a takeaway. “This is why I’m really hoping Donald Trump runs in 2024,” he said. “He’s the best candidate suited to clean house. Because if we don’t clean house the Republic is gone.”

    Jennifer Mercieca, a professor of rhetoric at Texas A. & M., analyzed the information warfare of the Trump era in her book “Demagogue for President,” and catalogued some of the ascendant patterns of communication. There was “paralipsis,” emphasizing something by professing to say little of it (“I’m not going to call Jeb Bush ‘low energy’ ”), and the ad populum appeal, flattering a crowd by praising its wisdom (“The people, my people, are so smart”). When possible, Trump turned to the power of “reification,” applying nonhuman sobriquets to his opponents (“disgusting animals,” “anchor babies,” “pigs”). Aldous Huxley recognized that tactic as long ago as 1936, writing, “The propagandist’s purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human.”

    In a segment about the confirmation battle over the Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, Bongino called it “pure unadulterated evil, what they did to this guy.” He announced a new sense of vocation: “My entire life right now is about owning the libs.”

    Dan Bongino and the Big Business of Returning Trump to Power | The New Yorker

    “I used that word all in 2020 for the antifa and BLM terrorists that assaulted cops,” Cruz pleaded, referring to Black Lives Matter. But then he capitulated entirely: “I agree: It was a mistake to use that word" for Jan. 6, because it helps “Democrats and the corporate media” demonize the right as “Nazis.”

    This is the landing point Carlson really wanted: Not that it’s wrong to generally call people who assault police officers “terrorists,” but that it’s wrong to call right-wingers who assault police officers “terrorists."

    The latter, after all, serves those who would depict Jan. 6, and the procedural election subversion leading up to it, as at bottom an effort to overturn our political order.

    The mythologizing of Jan. 6

    This trope is everywhere on the right. Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) and Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.) recently spent days depicting Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) as a bloodthirsty terrorist. For this they were celebrated on Stephen K. Bannon’s podcast, a command center for the far-right insurgency.

    Pointing this out is not meant as whataboutism. This depiction of the left as an all-powerful monolithic enemy, as a full-scale civilizational threat, is absolutely central to the right-wing project as pursued by the likes of those great warriors.

    It’s the key to valorizing the underlying goals of the Jan. 6 rioters and to the mythologizing of them as heroes and patriots. It lays the foundation for treating what they call the “regime,” i.e. democratically elected Democratic governments, as illegitimate, justifying Jan. 6, corrupt procedural efforts to overturn elections, the flirtation with political violence, and who knows what future acts in response.

    Opinion | Ted Cruz kisses Tucker Carlson’s feet in a wild Fox News exchange, unmasking the far right - The Washington Post

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 12,806
    edited January 7
    yeah it's fucked up

    I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday that had been vaccinated but has not yet gotten his booster. He is a big Rogan fan.  I told him he needed to get his ass in for a booster and he told me he has been taking some dumbass natural immunity booster that he gets from some health store.

    Give me a fucking break. Even when the tRumpsters break from the norm and get vaccinated they still hesitate to get boosted because of all the bullshit they hear.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,301
    If you don't think it can happen again, or still think "it can't happen here," I've got news for you. Just listen, or at least be aware of the shit that is out there and how popular it is. Bodes well for the Republik, dontcha say?

    Dan Bongino, one of America’s most popular conservative commentators, lives in the seaside city of Stuart, Florida, less than an hour from Mar-a-Lago, where his friend Donald Trump bridles against a forced retirement. Every weekday from noon to three—the coveted time slot once held by the late Rush Limbaugh—“The Dan Bongino Show” goes live across the United States, beginning with an announcer’s voice over the sound of hard-rock guitars: “From the N.Y.P.D. to the Secret Service to behind the microphone, taking the fight to the radical left and the putrid swamp.”

    Bongino draws an estimated 8.5 million radio listeners a week, making him the fourth most listened to host in America, ahead of Mark Levin, Glenn Beck, and other big names, according to Talkers magazine, which covers the industry. Though he came to broadcasting only after three unsuccessful runs for Congress, he now commands a Fox News program on Saturday nights, a podcast that has ranked No. 1 on iTunes, and a Web site that repackages stories into some of the most highly trafficked items on social media. In recent months, according to Facebook data, his page has attracted more engagement than those of the Times, the Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal combined.

    These days, his story line has expanded to encompass President Joe Biden—a “disgraceful, disgusting, grotesque bag of bones”—as well as his son Hunter. “The F.B.I. and the C.I.A., members of it, unquestionably tried to rig both the 2016 and 2020 election,” Bongino told his audience. In the latter, he explained, “they didn’t put out bad information on someone—they hid information about Joe Biden and his corrupt son.”

    “A corrupted intelligence community, in conjunction with a corrupt media, will eat this country like a cancer from the inside out,” Bongino told his audience, as he built to a takeaway. “This is why I’m really hoping Donald Trump runs in 2024,” he said. “He’s the best candidate suited to clean house. Because if we don’t clean house the Republic is gone.”

    Jennifer Mercieca, a professor of rhetoric at Texas A. & M., analyzed the information warfare of the Trump era in her book “Demagogue for President,” and catalogued some of the ascendant patterns of communication. There was “paralipsis,” emphasizing something by professing to say little of it (“I’m not going to call Jeb Bush ‘low energy’ ”), and the ad populum appeal, flattering a crowd by praising its wisdom (“The people, my people, are so smart”). When possible, Trump turned to the power of “reification,” applying nonhuman sobriquets to his opponents (“disgusting animals,” “anchor babies,” “pigs”). Aldous Huxley recognized that tactic as long ago as 1936, writing, “The propagandist’s purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human.”

    In a segment about the confirmation battle over the Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, Bongino called it “pure unadulterated evil, what they did to this guy.” He announced a new sense of vocation: “My entire life right now is about owning the libs.”

    Dan Bongino and the Big Business of Returning Trump to Power | The New Yorker

    “I used that word all in 2020 for the antifa and BLM terrorists that assaulted cops,” Cruz pleaded, referring to Black Lives Matter. But then he capitulated entirely: “I agree: It was a mistake to use that word" for Jan. 6, because it helps “Democrats and the corporate media” demonize the right as “Nazis.”

    This is the landing point Carlson really wanted: Not that it’s wrong to generally call people who assault police officers “terrorists,” but that it’s wrong to call right-wingers who assault police officers “terrorists."

    The latter, after all, serves those who would depict Jan. 6, and the procedural election subversion leading up to it, as at bottom an effort to overturn our political order.

    The mythologizing of Jan. 6

    This trope is everywhere on the right. Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) and Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.) recently spent days depicting Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) as a bloodthirsty terrorist. For this they were celebrated on Stephen K. Bannon’s podcast, a command center for the far-right insurgency.

    Pointing this out is not meant as whataboutism. This depiction of the left as an all-powerful monolithic enemy, as a full-scale civilizational threat, is absolutely central to the right-wing project as pursued by the likes of those great warriors.

    It’s the key to valorizing the underlying goals of the Jan. 6 rioters and to the mythologizing of them as heroes and patriots. It lays the foundation for treating what they call the “regime,” i.e. democratically elected Democratic governments, as illegitimate, justifying Jan. 6, corrupt procedural efforts to overturn elections, the flirtation with political violence, and who knows what future acts in response.

    Opinion | Ted Cruz kisses Tucker Carlson’s feet in a wild Fox News exchange, unmasking the far right - The Washington Post

    Begs the question... how do you combat this?  I know the saying goes 'you can't fix stupid' but when the stupid becomes this dangerous, you're left with no choice but to do something. 
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,583
    Parksy said:
    If you don't think it can happen again, or still think "it can't happen here," I've got news for you. Just listen, or at least be aware of the shit that is out there and how popular it is. Bodes well for the Republik, dontcha say?

    Dan Bongino, one of America’s most popular conservative commentators, lives in the seaside city of Stuart, Florida, less than an hour from Mar-a-Lago, where his friend Donald Trump bridles against a forced retirement. Every weekday from noon to three—the coveted time slot once held by the late Rush Limbaugh—“The Dan Bongino Show” goes live across the United States, beginning with an announcer’s voice over the sound of hard-rock guitars: “From the N.Y.P.D. to the Secret Service to behind the microphone, taking the fight to the radical left and the putrid swamp.”

    Bongino draws an estimated 8.5 million radio listeners a week, making him the fourth most listened to host in America, ahead of Mark Levin, Glenn Beck, and other big names, according to Talkers magazine, which covers the industry. Though he came to broadcasting only after three unsuccessful runs for Congress, he now commands a Fox News program on Saturday nights, a podcast that has ranked No. 1 on iTunes, and a Web site that repackages stories into some of the most highly trafficked items on social media. In recent months, according to Facebook data, his page has attracted more engagement than those of the Times, the Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal combined.

    These days, his story line has expanded to encompass President Joe Biden—a “disgraceful, disgusting, grotesque bag of bones”—as well as his son Hunter. “The F.B.I. and the C.I.A., members of it, unquestionably tried to rig both the 2016 and 2020 election,” Bongino told his audience. In the latter, he explained, “they didn’t put out bad information on someone—they hid information about Joe Biden and his corrupt son.”

    “A corrupted intelligence community, in conjunction with a corrupt media, will eat this country like a cancer from the inside out,” Bongino told his audience, as he built to a takeaway. “This is why I’m really hoping Donald Trump runs in 2024,” he said. “He’s the best candidate suited to clean house. Because if we don’t clean house the Republic is gone.”

    Jennifer Mercieca, a professor of rhetoric at Texas A. & M., analyzed the information warfare of the Trump era in her book “Demagogue for President,” and catalogued some of the ascendant patterns of communication. There was “paralipsis,” emphasizing something by professing to say little of it (“I’m not going to call Jeb Bush ‘low energy’ ”), and the ad populum appeal, flattering a crowd by praising its wisdom (“The people, my people, are so smart”). When possible, Trump turned to the power of “reification,” applying nonhuman sobriquets to his opponents (“disgusting animals,” “anchor babies,” “pigs”). Aldous Huxley recognized that tactic as long ago as 1936, writing, “The propagandist’s purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human.”

    In a segment about the confirmation battle over the Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, Bongino called it “pure unadulterated evil, what they did to this guy.” He announced a new sense of vocation: “My entire life right now is about owning the libs.”

    Dan Bongino and the Big Business of Returning Trump to Power | The New Yorker

    “I used that word all in 2020 for the antifa and BLM terrorists that assaulted cops,” Cruz pleaded, referring to Black Lives Matter. But then he capitulated entirely: “I agree: It was a mistake to use that word" for Jan. 6, because it helps “Democrats and the corporate media” demonize the right as “Nazis.”

    This is the landing point Carlson really wanted: Not that it’s wrong to generally call people who assault police officers “terrorists,” but that it’s wrong to call right-wingers who assault police officers “terrorists."

    The latter, after all, serves those who would depict Jan. 6, and the procedural election subversion leading up to it, as at bottom an effort to overturn our political order.

    The mythologizing of Jan. 6

    This trope is everywhere on the right. Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) and Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.) recently spent days depicting Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) as a bloodthirsty terrorist. For this they were celebrated on Stephen K. Bannon’s podcast, a command center for the far-right insurgency.

    Pointing this out is not meant as whataboutism. This depiction of the left as an all-powerful monolithic enemy, as a full-scale civilizational threat, is absolutely central to the right-wing project as pursued by the likes of those great warriors.

    It’s the key to valorizing the underlying goals of the Jan. 6 rioters and to the mythologizing of them as heroes and patriots. It lays the foundation for treating what they call the “regime,” i.e. democratically elected Democratic governments, as illegitimate, justifying Jan. 6, corrupt procedural efforts to overturn elections, the flirtation with political violence, and who knows what future acts in response.

    Opinion | Ted Cruz kisses Tucker Carlson’s feet in a wild Fox News exchange, unmasking the far right - The Washington Post

    Begs the question... how do you combat this?  I know the saying goes 'you can't fix stupid' but when the stupid becomes this dangerous, you're left with no choice but to do something. 
    Re-implement the Fairness Doctrine at the FCC could be one thing but it won't solve it. Its too late. Far too many people are far too gone and any attempt at reform would be viewed as just another freedumb taken away. Libel laws being reconsidered and legislation being passed could be another avenue but that will never happen either.

    All Anger, All the Time. Good luck 'Murica, you're going to need it.
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,864

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 29,307
    just watched Ted Cruz question a higher up at the FBI about the FBI's role in January 6th, and she kept saying "I can't answer that". 

    what's this about?
    ....courage is fear that just said its prayers....


  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,583
    edited January 12
    just watched Ted Cruz question a higher up at the FBI about the FBI's role in January 6th, and she kept saying "I can't answer that". 

    what's this about?
    US law enforcement agencies and intelligence services don't confirm or deny whether someone works for them. It can lead to revelations that they don't want revealed, sources and methods. Its been this way for since forever and is well known on the Hill. Ted Crud thinks he's got the Admin in a "gotcha" moment and it'll play well on Faux News and OAN. All it really shows is how stupid Ted Crud is. WaPo has a deeper explanation. From Letter From An American:

    The committee today also debunked a story circulating on right-wing media that government agencies rather than Trump loyalists were behind the January 6 insurrection. Arizona resident Ray Epps was captured on video in Washington on January 5 and 6, and Trump allies, including Representatives Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) and Matt Gaetz (R-FL) have argued that he was a government agent trying to entrap Trump supporters. The committee says that it interviewed Epps and that he had told the members “he was not employed by, working with, or acting at the direction of any law enforcement agency on January 5th or 6th or at any other time, and that he has never been an informant for the FBI or any other law enforcement agency.”

    “Sorry crazies, it ain’t true,” committee member Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) tweeted.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,583
    And Ray Epps testified before the committee under oath and the committee, in its official capacity, can verify whether he's an informant or has or does work for any law enforcement agency. If he lied under oath, he could go to jail. Ted Crud knows this but those Faux News and OAN viewers probably don't. Gives credence to the conspiracy theorists and makes Crud look like he's fighting for truth, justice and the 'Murican way. What's that term? "Political Theater."
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,430
    ray epps is the new hunter biden.

    why do republicans always latch on to a single, solitary private citizen and demonize them?

    you know this epps guy is going to start getting death threats now.
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 29,307
    just watched Ted Cruz question a higher up at the FBI about the FBI's role in January 6th, and she kept saying "I can't answer that". 

    what's this about?
    US law enforcement agencies and intelligence services don't confirm or deny whether someone works for them. It can lead to revelations that they don't want revealed, sources and methods. Its been this way for since forever and is well known on the Hill. Ted Crud thinks he's got the Admin in a "gotcha" moment and it'll play well on Faux News and OAN. All it really shows is how stupid Ted Crud is. WaPo has a deeper explanation. From Letter From An American:

    The committee today also debunked a story circulating on right-wing media that government agencies rather than Trump loyalists were behind the January 6 insurrection. Arizona resident Ray Epps was captured on video in Washington on January 5 and 6, and Trump allies, including Representatives Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) and Matt Gaetz (R-FL) have argued that he was a government agent trying to entrap Trump supporters. The committee says that it interviewed Epps and that he had told the members “he was not employed by, working with, or acting at the direction of any law enforcement agency on January 5th or 6th or at any other time, and that he has never been an informant for the FBI or any other law enforcement agency.”

    “Sorry crazies, it ain’t true,” committee member Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) tweeted.
    this is exactly what I thought. thanks. 
    ....courage is fear that just said its prayers....


  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 566
    ray epps is the new hunter biden.

    why do republicans always latch on to a single, solitary private citizen and demonize them?

    you know this epps guy is going to start getting death threats now.
    I think most on this board have stated that anyone involved in Jan. 6 should be charged with a crime. The FBI is still looking for people involved in Jan. 6. Why hasn't Ray Epps been charged with any crimes?

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,583
    JB16057 said:
    ray epps is the new hunter biden.

    why do republicans always latch on to a single, solitary private citizen and demonize them?

    you know this epps guy is going to start getting death threats now.
    I think most on this board have stated that anyone involved in Jan. 6 should be charged with a crime. The FBI is still looking for people involved in Jan. 6. Why hasn't Ray Epps been charged with any crimes?

    Because,

    While authorities haven't commented, there is a plausible explanation for why Epps hasn't been charged with a crime. Nearly all of the 700-plus defendants charged in connection with January 6 either stepped inside the Capitol building or are accused of assaulting police on Capitol grounds. To date, no evidence has emerged showing that Epps entered the Capitol on January 6 or that he tussled with police.

    Man accused by January 6 truthers of being FBI infiltrator denies claim in interview with House select committee - CNNPolitics

    But of course, people have explained why Epps might not be arrested or even sought by federal investigators. Here, for example, is HuffPost’s Ryan Reilly, explaining why succinctly.

    Reilly is tracking the grass-roots effort to identify those who entered the Capitol building, so he knows of what he speaks. There’s lots of footage of lots of people violating federal law by doing so; the available footage does not show Epps. In other words, there’s another likely reason that Epps wasn’t being sought by the FBI: He was already cleared.

    There have been repeated “investigations” into Epps’s purported government links over the months, all of which start from the point of assuming that he is what the conspiracy theorists are looking for and then cobbling together evidence to support that view. This is known as confirmation bias. The suspicious things about Epps are suspicious largely because they are the things that have been pulled into the conspiracy theory. A group of people convinced without evidence that the 2020 election was stolen then deciding that some guy was a federal agent is not robust evidence for that being true.

    Carlson deserves special mention here. He has regularly amplified claims about Epps, with Epps being mentioned on his show on Oct. 25, Nov. 1, Dec. 14, Dec. 28, Jan. 5 and Jan. 6. Epps played a central role in Carlson’s fringey “documentary” that attempted to blame federal agents for the Capitol riot, elevating claims by Darren Beattie, a far-right conservative media figure fired from the Trump administration for having attended a white nationalist conference. As Carlson’s former colleague Jon Ward wrote in his evisceration of Carlson’s documentary, a similarly accused individual identified by Beattie was later arrested. Beattie also at one point appeared on Carlson’s show to accuse other unnamed individuals of being federal agents; one was quickly revealed as an arrestee’s wife.

    The point here isn’t that Epps was an agent provocateur. It was that, in their hunt for an agent provocateur — and, by extension, in their hunt to shift blame for the riot away from the pro-Trump right — Epps was good enough. Now that the argument that he’s evaded scrutiny has been undercut, we can expect one of two responses. Either that Epps was lying to the committee, perhaps with a wink, or that some other random person was the real federal agent.

    Cruz asked that question specifically.

    “Did federal agents or those in service of federal agents actively encourage violent and criminal conduct on January 6th?” he asked Sanborn.

    “Not to my knowledge,” she replied.

    A few hours later — and after that statement from the Jan. 6 committee — Cruz pressed ahead anyway.

    The Ray Epps Jan. 6 conspiracy theory suffers a reality-inflicted blow - The Washington Post


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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 6,341
    JB16057 said:
    ray epps is the new hunter biden.

    why do republicans always latch on to a single, solitary private citizen and demonize them?

    you know this epps guy is going to start getting death threats now.
    I think most on this board have stated that anyone involved in Jan. 6 should be charged with a crime. The FBI is still looking for people involved in Jan. 6. Why hasn't Ray Epps been charged with any crimes?

    lol
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 566
    JB16057 said:
    ray epps is the new hunter biden.

    why do republicans always latch on to a single, solitary private citizen and demonize them?

    you know this epps guy is going to start getting death threats now.
    I think most on this board have stated that anyone involved in Jan. 6 should be charged with a crime. The FBI is still looking for people involved in Jan. 6. Why hasn't Ray Epps been charged with any crimes?

    Because,

    While authorities haven't commented, there is a plausible explanation for why Epps hasn't been charged with a crime. Nearly all of the 700-plus defendants charged in connection with January 6 either stepped inside the Capitol building or are accused of assaulting police on Capitol grounds. To date, no evidence has emerged showing that Epps entered the Capitol on January 6 or that he tussled with police.

    Man accused by January 6 truthers of being FBI infiltrator denies claim in interview with House select committee - CNNPolitics

    But of course, people have explained why Epps might not be arrested or even sought by federal investigators. Here, for example, is HuffPost’s Ryan Reilly, explaining why succinctly.

    Reilly is tracking the grass-roots effort to identify those who entered the Capitol building, so he knows of what he speaks. There’s lots of footage of lots of people violating federal law by doing so; the available footage does not show Epps. In other words, there’s another likely reason that Epps wasn’t being sought by the FBI: He was already cleared.

    There have been repeated “investigations” into Epps’s purported government links over the months, all of which start from the point of assuming that he is what the conspiracy theorists are looking for and then cobbling together evidence to support that view. This is known as confirmation bias. The suspicious things about Epps are suspicious largely because they are the things that have been pulled into the conspiracy theory. A group of people convinced without evidence that the 2020 election was stolen then deciding that some guy was a federal agent is not robust evidence for that being true.

    Carlson deserves special mention here. He has regularly amplified claims about Epps, with Epps being mentioned on his show on Oct. 25, Nov. 1, Dec. 14, Dec. 28, Jan. 5 and Jan. 6. Epps played a central role in Carlson’s fringey “documentary” that attempted to blame federal agents for the Capitol riot, elevating claims by Darren Beattie, a far-right conservative media figure fired from the Trump administration for having attended a white nationalist conference. As Carlson’s former colleague Jon Ward wrote in his evisceration of Carlson’s documentary, a similarly accused individual identified by Beattie was later arrested. Beattie also at one point appeared on Carlson’s show to accuse other unnamed individuals of being federal agents; one was quickly revealed as an arrestee’s wife.

    The point here isn’t that Epps was an agent provocateur. It was that, in their hunt for an agent provocateur — and, by extension, in their hunt to shift blame for the riot away from the pro-Trump right — Epps was good enough. Now that the argument that he’s evaded scrutiny has been undercut, we can expect one of two responses. Either that Epps was lying to the committee, perhaps with a wink, or that some other random person was the real federal agent.

    Cruz asked that question specifically.

    “Did federal agents or those in service of federal agents actively encourage violent and criminal conduct on January 6th?” he asked Sanborn.

    “Not to my knowledge,” she replied.

    A few hours later — and after that statement from the Jan. 6 committee — Cruz pressed ahead anyway.

    The Ray Epps Jan. 6 conspiracy theory suffers a reality-inflicted blow - The Washington Post


    I find it odd Ray Epps was adamant on telling people they needed to go into the Capitol building yet he never did so himself. Was the FBI involved at all? It wouldn't surprise me. Looks like the FBI had their hands in the Whitmer kidnapping case. The FBI has a record of scandals and lying to the public. Homeland Security and the FBI had full knowledge of what was coming on Jan. 6 but didn't act, or did they?

     "The mission of the FBI is to protect the American people and uphold the Constitution of the United States."
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 566
    JB16057 said:
    ray epps is the new hunter biden.

    why do republicans always latch on to a single, solitary private citizen and demonize them?

    you know this epps guy is going to start getting death threats now.
    I think most on this board have stated that anyone involved in Jan. 6 should be charged with a crime. The FBI is still looking for people involved in Jan. 6. Why hasn't Ray Epps been charged with any crimes?

    lol

    lol
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,583
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    ray epps is the new hunter biden.

    why do republicans always latch on to a single, solitary private citizen and demonize them?

    you know this epps guy is going to start getting death threats now.
    I think most on this board have stated that anyone involved in Jan. 6 should be charged with a crime. The FBI is still looking for people involved in Jan. 6. Why hasn't Ray Epps been charged with any crimes?

    Because,

    While authorities haven't commented, there is a plausible explanation for why Epps hasn't been charged with a crime. Nearly all of the 700-plus defendants charged in connection with January 6 either stepped inside the Capitol building or are accused of assaulting police on Capitol grounds. To date, no evidence has emerged showing that Epps entered the Capitol on January 6 or that he tussled with police.

    Man accused by January 6 truthers of being FBI infiltrator denies claim in interview with House select committee - CNNPolitics

    But of course, people have explained why Epps might not be arrested or even sought by federal investigators. Here, for example, is HuffPost’s Ryan Reilly, explaining why succinctly.

    Reilly is tracking the grass-roots effort to identify those who entered the Capitol building, so he knows of what he speaks. There’s lots of footage of lots of people violating federal law by doing so; the available footage does not show Epps. In other words, there’s another likely reason that Epps wasn’t being sought by the FBI: He was already cleared.

    There have been repeated “investigations” into Epps’s purported government links over the months, all of which start from the point of assuming that he is what the conspiracy theorists are looking for and then cobbling together evidence to support that view. This is known as confirmation bias. The suspicious things about Epps are suspicious largely because they are the things that have been pulled into the conspiracy theory. A group of people convinced without evidence that the 2020 election was stolen then deciding that some guy was a federal agent is not robust evidence for that being true.

    Carlson deserves special mention here. He has regularly amplified claims about Epps, with Epps being mentioned on his show on Oct. 25, Nov. 1, Dec. 14, Dec. 28, Jan. 5 and Jan. 6. Epps played a central role in Carlson’s fringey “documentary” that attempted to blame federal agents for the Capitol riot, elevating claims by Darren Beattie, a far-right conservative media figure fired from the Trump administration for having attended a white nationalist conference. As Carlson’s former colleague Jon Ward wrote in his evisceration of Carlson’s documentary, a similarly accused individual identified by Beattie was later arrested. Beattie also at one point appeared on Carlson’s show to accuse other unnamed individuals of being federal agents; one was quickly revealed as an arrestee’s wife.

    The point here isn’t that Epps was an agent provocateur. It was that, in their hunt for an agent provocateur — and, by extension, in their hunt to shift blame for the riot away from the pro-Trump right — Epps was good enough. Now that the argument that he’s evaded scrutiny has been undercut, we can expect one of two responses. Either that Epps was lying to the committee, perhaps with a wink, or that some other random person was the real federal agent.

    Cruz asked that question specifically.

    “Did federal agents or those in service of federal agents actively encourage violent and criminal conduct on January 6th?” he asked Sanborn.

    “Not to my knowledge,” she replied.

    A few hours later — and after that statement from the Jan. 6 committee — Cruz pressed ahead anyway.

    The Ray Epps Jan. 6 conspiracy theory suffers a reality-inflicted blow - The Washington Post


    I find it odd Ray Epps was adamant on telling people they needed to go into the Capitol building yet he never did so himself. Was the FBI involved at all? It wouldn't surprise me. Looks like the FBI had their hands in the Whitmer kidnapping case. The FBI has a record of scandals and lying to the public. Homeland Security and the FBI had full knowledge of what was coming on Jan. 6 but didn't act, or did they?

     "The mission of the FBI is to protect the American people and uphold the Constitution of the United States."
    So one individual, Ray Epps, excuses all the other actions and individuals that we know about that happened that day? Ray Epps testified under oath and penalty of law before the 1/6 House investigation committee. Can you say the same of Steve O, Rodger Dodger Stoned, Kevin McCarthy, Gym Jordan, Miley Pence or other high level POOTWH Administration officials?

    FBI false flag operation? LOL.
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