North is to south as the clock is to time

ladydocNYCladydocNYC Posts: 635
What does this mean? My husband loves all the other lyrics to "I am mine" but this one bugs him... at first blush, it's a total mis-analogy.

The only thing I could think of to make sense of it is something like this: if you know north, you can use it to figure out south, like you use a clock to figure out time-- so it'd be a reference to the process of navigation.

Or is it not supposed to make sense? (sort of a cop out...)
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    I am not claiming this is what it means, but the way I have always made sense of these words is by loosely identifying the north with the industrialized, developed world and the south as the more spontaneous, closer to nature world. Then the analogy works. The north imposes on the south rhythms we have come to take for natural but actually aren't. Just like clocks with time.

    :)
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • DempsDemps Posts: 102
    I always took it to mean that direction and time are both completely relative and to a certain degree arbitrary. North is North because we decided that it was. An hour has 60 minutes and a day has 24 hours because we decided that they do. Both are relatively arbitrary concepts.
    I suggest you step out on your porch...run away my son...see it all...oh see the world // I wait on the porch...hoping someday I'll be let in

    Springfield, MA 4/6/94 -- Boston, MA 4/11/94 -- Hartford, CT 10/2/96 -- Hartford, CT 9/13/98 -- Mansfield, MA 7/2/03 -- Reading, PA 10/1/04 -- Albany, NY 5/12/06 -- Milwaukee, WI 6/29/06 -- Mansfield, MA 6/30/08 -- Toronto, ON 9/21/09 -- Philadelphia, PA 10/31/09 -- Worcester, MA 10/16/13 -- Hartford, CT 10/25/13 -- New York, NY 9/26/15 -- New York, NY 5/2/16 -- Boston, MA 8/5/16 -- Boston, MA 8/7/16 -- Boston, MA 9/2/18 -- Boston, MA 9/4/18 -- London, UK 7/8/22 -- Hamilton, ON 9/6/22 -- Toronto, ON 9/8/22 -- New York, NY 9/11/22 -- Chicago, IL 9/5/23 -- Chicago, IL 9/7/23 -- New York, NY 9/3/24 -- Philadelphia, PA 9/7/24 -- Philadelphia, PA 9/9/24
  • vedhead011vedhead011 Posts: 300
    Maybe you're analyzing an incomplete lyric. Maybe its true meaning cannot be understood without taking the next line into account. It seems that they are linked contextually as the line you are trying to interpet references North and South, and the next line mentions East and West.

    "The North is to South what the clock is to time
    There's east and there's west and there's everywhere life
    I know I was born and I know that I'll die
    The in between is mine
    I am mine"

    The first two lines possibly reference the part of the world that is out of the control of an individual, no single ordinary person can control time or direction, used in juxtaposition to the end of the verse where the individial is asserting that what they can control is themself.

    Let's also not forget how many times this song has been introduced live with the intro along the lines of "This song is about feeling safe." This reminds me of the supposed impetus of the song...the September 11 attacks. That could make the "east" and "west" not stand for directions on a compass, but rather labeling the two groups of people involved in that event. The attackers from "the east" and the victims, citizens of "the west". So in that regard, the North and South may not be linked to the East and the West in this song.

    I'm usually not that good at this stuff, so I'm not offering anything here as an answer, merely an attempt to further the conversation.
    AskPearlJam: PearlJama101-guest says: Who's idea was it for Eddie to play banjo on "Soon Forget"?
    Eddie: I don't know whose idea it was but it was turned down.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    My personal interpretation is:
    North and south represent the physical space you occupy.
    Clock and Time represent the Time in which you occupy that space.
    The whole, this physical space at this specific point in time... the Here and Now aspect of our lives.
    Make what best you can with your life, right here and right now because you are not guaranteed of anything afterwards.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • justamjustam Posts: 21,410
    freakfish wrote:
    I always took it to mean that direction and time are both completely relative and to a certain degree arbitrary. North is North because we decided that it was. An hour has 60 minutes and a day has 24 hours because we decided that they do. Both are relatively arbitrary concepts.

    Kinda, sorta...yeah... ;)

    A day at it's most basic is the period of time from one sun-up until the next. Yes it has been measured and SET at 24 hours, but "a day" is something observable even without the label.

    North and South too. Yes, while we're walking on the earth, it may not really matter except it does give humans a way of knowing which direction to go to get from one actual place to another.

    Labels--yes, arbitrary, uh, sorta

    but
    these are ALL ways of talking about everything except the moment we are living in...which seems to be the focus of the song...
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    Here's my intereptation...

    North is to South as the clock is to time...

    You need a clock to tell time...and unless you know North you can't know what is South...they go together...If you know North, you have to know which way is south...if you have the have a clock, you know the time.

    So, you need to understand the one and you by understanding the one, you also will understand the other.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    freakfish wrote:
    I always took it to mean that direction and time are both completely relative and to a certain degree arbitrary. North is North because we decided that it was. An hour has 60 minutes and a day has 24 hours because we decided that they do. Both are relatively arbitrary concepts.

    actually, a day has 24 hours because that's how long it takes the earth to make one full revolution on its axis. So it isn't arbitrary at all.

    Other than that, your analysis is spot on ;)
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    meme wrote:
    I am not claiming this is what it means, but the way I have always made sense of these words is by loosely identifying the north with the industrialized, developed world and the south as the more spontaneous, closer to nature world. Then the analogy works. The north imposes on the south rhythms we have come to take for natural but actually aren't. Just like clocks with time.

    :)

    That's a pretty cool explanation!
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • DempsDemps Posts: 102
    justam wrote:
    Kinda, sorta...yeah... ;)

    A day at it's most basic is the period of time from one sun-up until the next. Yes it has been measured and SET at 24 hours, but "a day" is something observable even without the label.

    Agreed and understood. But the larger point I'm poorly articulating is that we've taken something that happens naturally (as someone below you put it - the spinning of the earth on it's axis) and broken it down into units with numbers that we've made up in order to keep things more manageable and ordered. Seconds, minutes, hours, days. An "hour" could have just as easily been 100 minutes long if we'd decided that 36 seconds was a better unit of measuring a minute. So while I'd agree that "arbitrary" might not be the best choice of words here, it's still a construct that we've chosen to operate under. Time is time and it passes whether we choose to clock it or not.
    justam wrote:
    North and South too. Yes, while we're walking on the earth, it may not really matter except it does give humans a way of knowing which direction to go to get from one actual place to another.

    Labels--yes, arbitrary, uh, sorta

    but
    these are ALL ways of talking about everything except the moment we are living in...which seems to be the focus of the song...
    I suggest you step out on your porch...run away my son...see it all...oh see the world // I wait on the porch...hoping someday I'll be let in

    Springfield, MA 4/6/94 -- Boston, MA 4/11/94 -- Hartford, CT 10/2/96 -- Hartford, CT 9/13/98 -- Mansfield, MA 7/2/03 -- Reading, PA 10/1/04 -- Albany, NY 5/12/06 -- Milwaukee, WI 6/29/06 -- Mansfield, MA 6/30/08 -- Toronto, ON 9/21/09 -- Philadelphia, PA 10/31/09 -- Worcester, MA 10/16/13 -- Hartford, CT 10/25/13 -- New York, NY 9/26/15 -- New York, NY 5/2/16 -- Boston, MA 8/5/16 -- Boston, MA 8/7/16 -- Boston, MA 9/2/18 -- Boston, MA 9/4/18 -- London, UK 7/8/22 -- Hamilton, ON 9/6/22 -- Toronto, ON 9/8/22 -- New York, NY 9/11/22 -- Chicago, IL 9/5/23 -- Chicago, IL 9/7/23 -- New York, NY 9/3/24 -- Philadelphia, PA 9/7/24 -- Philadelphia, PA 9/9/24
  • justamjustam Posts: 21,410
    freakfish wrote:
    Agreed and understood. But the larger point I'm poorly articulating is that we've taken something that happens naturally (as someone below you put it - the spinning of the earth on it's axis) and broken it down into units with numbers that we've made up in order to keep things more manageable and ordered. Seconds, minutes, hours, days. An "hour" could have just as easily been 100 minutes long if we'd decided that 36 seconds was a better unit of measuring a minute. So while I'd agree that "arbitrary" might not be the best choice of words here, it's still a construct that we've chosen to operate under. Time is time and it passes whether we choose to clock it or not.

    I agree. :)
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • ladydocNYCladydocNYC Posts: 635
    Here's my intereptation...

    North is to South as the clock is to time...

    You need a clock to tell time...and unless you know North you can't know what is South...they go together...If you know North, you have to know which way is south...if you have the have a clock, you know the time.

    So, you need to understand the one and you by understanding the one, you also will understand the other.

    Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant to be suggesting. Only if this is right, what do you see as the connection with the rest of the verse? I'm thinking it relates because just as north-south and clock-time are understood together, so are life-death, hence 'I know I was born and I know that I'll die' ?

    I didn't know the song was in any way connected to 9-11. If so, then I think veddhead must be right that the east-west reference is at least partly about that, and how out of control we are with respect to the complexity of our world.

    Keep it coming, guys! Thanks!!
  • DempsDemps Posts: 102
    actually, a day has 24 hours because that's how long it takes the earth to make one full revolution on its axis. So it isn't arbitrary at all.

    Other than that, your analysis is spot on ;)

    Tracking time by the sun rising and setting and the seasons changing is not arbitrary.

    Deciding how long a second lasts is moreso.

    It's the same with all types of measurement.
    I suggest you step out on your porch...run away my son...see it all...oh see the world // I wait on the porch...hoping someday I'll be let in

    Springfield, MA 4/6/94 -- Boston, MA 4/11/94 -- Hartford, CT 10/2/96 -- Hartford, CT 9/13/98 -- Mansfield, MA 7/2/03 -- Reading, PA 10/1/04 -- Albany, NY 5/12/06 -- Milwaukee, WI 6/29/06 -- Mansfield, MA 6/30/08 -- Toronto, ON 9/21/09 -- Philadelphia, PA 10/31/09 -- Worcester, MA 10/16/13 -- Hartford, CT 10/25/13 -- New York, NY 9/26/15 -- New York, NY 5/2/16 -- Boston, MA 8/5/16 -- Boston, MA 8/7/16 -- Boston, MA 9/2/18 -- Boston, MA 9/4/18 -- London, UK 7/8/22 -- Hamilton, ON 9/6/22 -- Toronto, ON 9/8/22 -- New York, NY 9/11/22 -- Chicago, IL 9/5/23 -- Chicago, IL 9/7/23 -- New York, NY 9/3/24 -- Philadelphia, PA 9/7/24 -- Philadelphia, PA 9/9/24
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    ladydocNYC wrote:
    Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant to be suggesting. Only if this is right, what do you see as the connection with the rest of the verse? I'm thinking it relates because just as north-south and clock-time are understood together, so are life-death, hence 'I know I was born and I know that I'll die' ?


    Yes, that is what I think...but then again, I didn't write it. ;)

    You can't comprehend life if you don't understand death, and vice versa...they give each other their full meaning.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    ladydocNYC wrote:
    Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant to be suggesting. Only if this is right, what do you see as the connection with the rest of the verse? I'm thinking it relates because just as north-south and clock-time are understood together, so are life-death, hence 'I know I was born and I know that I'll die' ?

    I didn't know the song was in any way connected to 9-11. If so, then I think veddhead must be right that the east-west reference is at least partly about that, and how out of control we are with respect to the complexity of our world.

    Keep it coming, guys! Thanks!!

    the song, if I've got the story right, was begun shortly after Roskilde ... and finished after 9/11 ...
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • DempsDemps Posts: 102
    dunkman wrote:

    Very much so.

    Solid find.
    I suggest you step out on your porch...run away my son...see it all...oh see the world // I wait on the porch...hoping someday I'll be let in

    Springfield, MA 4/6/94 -- Boston, MA 4/11/94 -- Hartford, CT 10/2/96 -- Hartford, CT 9/13/98 -- Mansfield, MA 7/2/03 -- Reading, PA 10/1/04 -- Albany, NY 5/12/06 -- Milwaukee, WI 6/29/06 -- Mansfield, MA 6/30/08 -- Toronto, ON 9/21/09 -- Philadelphia, PA 10/31/09 -- Worcester, MA 10/16/13 -- Hartford, CT 10/25/13 -- New York, NY 9/26/15 -- New York, NY 5/2/16 -- Boston, MA 8/5/16 -- Boston, MA 8/7/16 -- Boston, MA 9/2/18 -- Boston, MA 9/4/18 -- London, UK 7/8/22 -- Hamilton, ON 9/6/22 -- Toronto, ON 9/8/22 -- New York, NY 9/11/22 -- Chicago, IL 9/5/23 -- Chicago, IL 9/7/23 -- New York, NY 9/3/24 -- Philadelphia, PA 9/7/24 -- Philadelphia, PA 9/9/24
  • ladydocNYC wrote:
    What does this mean? My husband loves all the other lyrics to "I am mine" but this one bugs him... at first blush, it's a total mis-analogy.

    The only thing I could think of to make sense of it is something like this: if you know north, you can use it to figure out south, like you use a clock to figure out time-- so it'd be a reference to the process of navigation.

    Or is it not supposed to make sense? (sort of a cop out...)

    for all we know -- it may not supposed to make sense

    interepting a single line sometimes is like interpreting a specific frame in a film
    its useless and things just happen
    not for any certain reason

    (please note: i used the word sometimes)
    pj 09/01/00 04/28/03 07/06/03 05/27/06 05/28/06 06/17/08 06/19/08 06/20/08
    ev 08/04/08 08/07/08

    http://www.kevincookphoto.com
  • PJ212PJ212 Posts: 822
    the song, if I've got the story right, was begun shortly after Roskilde ... and finished after 9/11 ...

    I was listening to the improv from the Charlotte 2000 bootleg again the other day. It's cool to listen to it because you can sort of map out the song I Am Mine within this improv. I've never listed to other Improvs from the 2000 tour. I wonder if there are other songs they were working out during that tour.
    2000: CLT, Greensboro, 2003: MSG 1 & 2, 2008: MSG 1 & 2, 2009: LA 2 & 3, 2011: Vancouver, 2012: Missoula, 2013: Wrigley, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Voodoo, SD, LA 1 & 2, OAK, PDX, Vancouver, SEA, 2014: Cincy, ACL1, Tulsa, Lincoln, Memphis, Moline, St. Paul, MKE, DEN, Bridge 1 & 2, 2015: GCF, Mexico City, 2016: FLL, MIA, TPA, Greenville, Hampton, Columbia, MSG 1 & 2, Bonnaroo, Telluride, Fenway 1 & 2, Wrigley 1 & 2, 2017: ROHF, 2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Seattle 1 & 2, Missoula, Wrigley 1 2021: SHN, Ohana 2 & 3, 2022: LA 1 & 2, PHX, OAK 1 & 2, Fresno, MSG, BNA, B&B, STL, OKC, DEN, 2023: MSP 1 & 2, CHI 1 & 2, DFW 2, AUS 1 & 2, 2024: Vancouver 1 & 2, LV 1 & 2, SEA 1 & 2
  • vedhead011 wrote:
    "The North is to South what the clock is to time
    There's east and there's west and there's everywhere life
    I know I was born and I know that I'll die
    The in between is mine
    I am mine"

    The first two lines possibly reference the part of the world that is out of the control of an individual, no single ordinary person can control time or direction, used in juxtaposition to the end of the verse where the individial is asserting that what they can control is themself.

    Let's also not forget how many times this song has been introduced live with the intro along the lines of "This song is about feeling safe." This reminds me of the supposed impetus of the song...the September 11 attacks. That could make the "east" and "west" not stand for directions on a compass, but rather labeling the two groups of people involved in that event. The attackers from "the east" and the victims, citizens of "the west". So in that regard, the North and South may not be linked to the East and the West in this song.

    I'm usually not that good at this stuff, so I'm not offering anything here as an answer, merely an attempt to further the conversation.

    I've always thought of it that way too. That there are certain things in the world that just are and we can't change them, but what we do have control over is our own lives, our actions.
    "Would I rather be feared or loved? Um... Easy, both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." -Michael Scott
  • I really love this song and when i saw this thread i really started thinking about this line. My own personal interpretation is that the line is about how everything and everyone depends on something. I feel that "the north is to south as the clock is to time" shows this. I think that people always view north as a constant, the north star is the base of all directions so it is only natural that all the other directions depend on the north. Also time depends on the clock because whatever the clock says is the time that it is. I think that this interpretation fits with the song because the song is always introduced as a song about safety, and i think to feel safe that means that you have to depend on someone or something to protect you. So I think this line is just 2 comparisons of how everything needs to depend on something. Thats just my interpretation though.
    "Change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks"
  • I thought it meant this. North and south are opposites and were two different groups of people who disliked each other. Time and clock are related though. So even though they dislike each other they are still the same species...humanity, and should get along. I can't explain it as good as I want too, but that's what I think.
    Nathan
  • I really love this song and when i saw this thread i really started thinking about this line. My own personal interpretation is that the line is about how everything and everyone depends on something. I feel that "the north is to south as the clock is to time" shows this. I think that people always view north as a constant, the north star is the base of all directions so it is only natural that all the other directions depend on the north. Also time depends on the clock because whatever the clock says is the time that it is. I think that this interpretation fits with the song because the song is always introduced as a song about safety, and i think to feel safe that means that you have to depend on someone or something to protect you. So I think this line is just 2 comparisons of how everything needs to depend on something. Thats just my interpretation though.

    Never saw it that way... but I think you're right. Well done.

    What amazing lyrics throughout this whole song btw.
    All the rusted signs, we ignore throughout our lives, choosing the shiny ones instead...

    And he who forgets, will be destined to remember...
Sign In or Register to comment.