Jeremy lyrics compared to old H. Chapin?

rhondaaarhondaaa Posts: 6
Hi - I've been a 10c member for awhile, now, but don't usually post. One thing that's always yanked at me, though, are the similarities (or the use of certain metaphors) in the lyrics of Jeremy to the lyrics of Harry Chapin's (great folkwriter who died in a plane crash YEARS ago) song, The Sniper. If you can get your hands on a copy of The Sniper, it's well worth a listen, & I can guarantee chills running down your spine. (At least Google the lyrics - the parts where Harry sings in 3rd person, changing intonations, keys, etc., - the voices in his head, the other people talking about him...very creepy). I should have mentioned that The Sniper is based on the Charles Whitman killings that took place from atop the University of Texas bell/clocktower in 1966, & he was really just a kid doing all the shooting.
Here's a link to the lyrics if you want to check it out, but you really need to hear it to understand the genius of the song:
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/PrintLyrics?OpenForm&ParentUnid=43ED51ADE719915748256CAA002CD045
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • vedderfan10vedderfan10 Posts: 2,497
    I thought Harry Chapin died in a car accident. It was kind of a pithy little death for such a great writer...kind of mundane and dull...

    Anyway, all his songs were genius....Taxi, Sequel, Cat's in the Cradle, to name a few...I really was into him when I was about 10 or 12 years old - it was just before he died, because he was scheduled to perform near my hometown...and before I could ask my parents to take me, I heard on the radio that he died.

    I will check out this "Sniper" you suggest....Thanks for the tip!

    And welcome to the board, Rhondaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
    be philanthropic
  • jammerfalljammerfall Posts: 908
    I thought Harry Chapin died in a car accident. It was kind of a pithy little death for such a great writer...kind of mundane and dull...

    It was a car accident.

    From Wikipedia:
    On July 16, 1981, just after noon, Chapin was driving on the Long Island Expressway, in the left hand fast lane, at about 65 miles an hour. For some unknown reason, either because of engine failure or some physical problem (thought to be a possible heart attack) he put on his emergency flashers near Exit 40 in Jericho, NY. He then slowed to about 15 miles an hour and veered into the center lane nearly colliding with another car. He swerved back left, then back right again and this time went directly in front of a tractor-trailer truck. The truck could not brake in time and rammed the rear of Harry's blue 1975 Volkswagen Rabbit, rupturing the gas tank and causing it to burst into flames.

    The driver of the truck, and another passer-by were able to get Harry out of the burning car through the window and by cutting the seatbelts, before the car was completely engulfed. He was taken by police helicopter to the hospital where ten doctors tried for 30 minutes to revive him. A spokesman for the Nassau County Medical Center said that Harry had suffered a massive heart attack and "died of cardiac arrest" but there was no way of knowing whether it occurred before or after the accident. Harry Chapin was just 38 years old.
    "Hello Oregonians. Hello Washingtonians. Hello Portland..where the fuck are we? We're in Ridgefield!"
  • My mistake; sorry about that. But did anyone or has anyone checked out Chapin's song, "The Sniper" - (that was kind of the whole point of my original post). It's just such a great song, and I don't think you can help but make comparisons (even if just mentally or subconsciously - like..."I've heard something like this before"). I'd really love to hear any other opinions on this - check out the link to the lyrics in my original post - but you really need to HEAR the song to grasp both the power and the subtleness (although it's not really too subtle when you're listening) of the song.
    I hate to beg, but PLEASE, PLEASE?!?!
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  • vedderfan10vedderfan10 Posts: 2,497
    Yeah, there's a common theme - neglected kid, ignored and/or teased by classmates. Harry Chapin really is a balladeer in that he explains the whole story flat out bare bones here it is...

    Ed's a little more subtle and leaves things open to interpretation. Everyone knows what Jeremy is about now and yes, when I first heard it, I knew what "spoke in class" meant, without seeing the video...but he didn't sing "Jeremy blew his head off in class today" or "Jeremy chewed gun in class today and bits of brain were sprayed on the blackboard and now we can't erase them from there or our minds and the girl in the third row with the rich parents and expensive hairstyle would never be the same"...You get all that from "Jeremy spoke in class today"... That's Ed's talent, he can say 1000 words with only four or five.

    Harry Chapin is MUCH more descriptive, but not any less of a musician or less of a great contributor to the soundscape of our lives...
    be philanthropic
  • "Jeremy chewed gun in class today and bits of brain were sprayed on the blackboard and now we can't erase them from there or our minds and the girl in the third row with the rich parents and expensive hairstyle would never be the same"...

    nearly spit out my coffee at that one, I laughed so hard.

    ...gotta love long sentences.
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • to Vedderfan10: Respectfully, I have to disagree with you about how Chapin used his words (and as I said, in the song itself, Chapin uses TWO voices - a kind of crazy intonation for what's going on inside the kid's head - the words of the people describing him, obviously as he understood it, as well as his own thoughts, and a straightforward singing style for the more "reality-based" or "in the moment" stanzas, making it MUCH more complex than you summed it up, and TOTALLY brilliant), & because I think you really oversimplified it, especially considering that it was written more than 20 years before "Jeremy" - or thereabouts - soooo....I'm going to go ahead and print them and hope they interest someone else enough to actually try to find the song and LISTEN? Thanks -
    Sniper
    Harry Chapin

    It is an early Monday morning.
    The sun is becoming bright on the land.
    No one is watching as he comes a walking.
    Two bulky suitcases hang from his hands.

    He heads towards the tower that stands in the campus.
    He goes through the door, he starts up the stairs.
    The sound of his footsteps, the sound of his breathing,
    The sound of the silence when no one was there.

    I didn't really know him.
    He was kind of strange.
    Always sort of sat there.
    He never seemed to change.

    He reached the catwalk. He put down his burden.
    The four sided clock began to chime.
    Seven AM, the day is beginning.
    So much to do and so little time.

    He looks at the city where no one had known him.
    He looks at the sky where no one looks down.
    He looks at his life and what it has shown him.
    He looks for his shadow it cannot be found.

    He was such a moody child, very hard to touch.
    Even as a baby he never smiled too much. No no.No no.

    You bug me, she said.
    Your ugly, she said.
    Please hug me, I said.
    But she just sat there
    With the same flat stare
    That she saves for me alone
    When I'm home.
    When I'm home.
    Take me home.

    He laid out the rifles, he loaded the shotgun,
    He stacked up the cartridges along the wall.
    He knew he would need them for his conversation.
    If it went as it he planned, then he might use them all.

    He said Listen you people I've got a question
    You won't pay attention but I'll ask anyhow.
    I found a way that will get me an answer.
    Been waiting to ask you 'till now.
    Right now !

    Am I ?
    I am a lover who's never been kissed.
    Am I ?
    I am a fighter who's not made a fist.
    Am I ?
    If I'm alive then there's so much I've missed.
    How do I know I exist ?
    Are you listening to me ?
    Are you listening to me ?
    Am I ?

    The first words he spoke took the town by surprise.
    One got Mrs. Gibbons above her right eye.
    It blew her through the window wedged her against the door.
    Reality poured from her face, staining the floor.

    He was kind of creepy,
    Sort of a dunce.
    I met him at the corner bar.
    I only dated the poor boy once,
    That's all. Just once, that was all.

    Bill Whedon was questioned as stepped from his car.
    Tom Scott ran across the street but he never got that far.
    The police were there in minutes, they set up baricades.
    He spoke right on over them in a half-mile circle.
    In a dumb struck city his pointed questions were sprayed.

    He knocked over Danny Tyson as he ran towards the noise.
    Just about then the answers started comming. Sweet, sweet joy.
    Thudding in the clock face, whining off the walls,
    Reaching up to where he sat there, answering calls.

    Thirty-seven people got his message so far.
    Yes, he was reaching them right were they are.

    They set up an assault team. They asked for volunteers.
    They had to go and get him, that much was clear.
    And the word spread about him on the radios and TV's.
    In appropriately sober tone they asked "Who can it be ?"

    He was a very dull boy, very taciturn.
    Not much of a joiner, he did not want to learn.
    No no.No no.

    They're coming to get me, they don't want to let me
    Stay in the bright light too long.
    It's getting on noon now, it's goin to be soon now.
    But oh, what a wonderful sound !

    Mama, won't you nurse me ?
    Rain me down the sweet milk of your kindness.
    Mama, it's getting worse for me.
    Won't you please make me warm and mindless ?

    Mama, yes you have cursed me.
    I never will forgive you for your blindness.
    I hate you!

    The wires are all humming for me.
    And I can hear them coming for me.
    Soon they'll be here, but there's nothing to fear.
    Not any more though they've blasted the door.

    As the copter dropped the gas he shouted " Who cares ?" .
    They could hear him laughing as they started up the stairs.
    As they stormed out on the catwalk, blinking at the sun,
    With their final fusillade his answer had come.

    Am I ?
    There is no way that you can hide me.
    Am I ?
    Though you have put your fire inside me.
    Am I ?
    You've given me my answer can't you see ?
    I was !
    I am !
    and now I Will Be
    I WILL BE !!!
  • Now remember, I said I was a Harry Chapin fan since I was about 12, so that's almost 30 years...yikes! Anyway, he's a balladeer, a guy who rights odes and epic poems, with not a whole lot of room for interpretation. He's very descriptive in his lyrics. Charles Whitman's life history came to light after this incident, while Jeremy Dell's (was that his name Dales? Dells?) was largely speculation...and in a lot of ways an amalgamation of two characters -- and I suspect that "the boy" Ed remembers picking on, was probably HIMSELF getting picked on and beat up (i.e. "Rearview Mirror), which "unleashed the lion" in him (or as Lawrence Gowan said "Awake the Giant in Me")...but I digress...

    Yes there is some similar imagery in the two songs...but we're dealing with disturbed people who were not well and who were tired of their perceived abandonment by family and society, who ultimately committed suicide - so I agree, there's some similarity in that respect.

    But each stands alone as a very powerful song, with a serious message. One that seems to have been largely ignored given events at schools in recent years and most likely there are more to come.

    Anyhow, it's unfortunate that you believe I over simplified the song, which is obviously very important to you. I was just offering an opinion that you asked for...but we're cool....
    be philanthropic
  • Of course we're "cool." I wouldn't be reading anything here or be a 10c member if I wasn't a HUGE Pearl Jam/Eddie Vedder fan. I wasn't trying to imply a 'liftng of lyrics' by Eddie, either...I guess it's just that I was very familiar with "Sniper" years before "Jeremy" ever came out (I'm a little older than you; we actually had to analyze Chapin's song in a literature class - then the professor played it - yes, vinyl! - and it took on a whole new life of its own), and I always thought it was brilliant - as is "Jeremy." Maybe there's a reason for some of the imagery similarities in the 2 songs, about 20 years apart: Another 15 years have gone by now and we still haven't learned a thing, have we?
    (I think I was just a bit touchy about the response by ?? to your comment on the song, where it was kind of apparent he/she hadn't even heard of it; sorry about that...and hope this post doesn't come too late for you to read!)
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