I’m in favor of a more well informed voting public, I think any rational person probably is, but that isn’t the issue at the heart of this IMO.
No American has a right to judge the quality of another American’s vote though.
Shouldn’t that be the bottom line, here?
I totally agree that no American has the right to judge another person's right to vote as they choose. Of course, that includes allowing the right for many millions of Americans to vote for someone who is crude, misogynistic, anti-environment, anti-democracy and totally unqualified for the job of POTUS- which, as we all know did happen. That result may be a good reason to focus on quality of vote vs quantity. I'm not sure what the author of the OP quote means by a "quality vote", but to me, it means giving voters the opportunity to be well informed and better educated and, in fact, strongly encouraging that to be the case. Just seeking quantity of votes seems, to me, to be putting the cart before the horse and makes little sense.
Honest question: are you unfamiliar with the source and context of the quote? Or are you just trying to have a discussion based on the quote itself in a vacuum?
Yes and yes to the first two questions. I used the quote as a jumping off point to discuss the idea of quantity of votes vs. quality. It's an issue I believe deserves consideration. I don't find it useful to say "let's get as many people as possible to vote" before (or at least without) advocating voter education.
I have often questioned why it is more important to have as many voters as possible with little or no concern for how well voters are educated on the process of government as well as the issues and candidates themselves. We live in a world where ideas are formed and where votes are cast based on very sketchy notions formed by reading headlines rather than articles, or political cartoons, or memes or other forms of information that are unverified and showing little thought for value of information. That, for example, is why I stated on the Cuomo thread that I believed reactions were being formed quickly on a sketchy source. And unfortunately, some here took that to mean I am OK with sexual harassment- which, of course, is an extremely poorly formed assumption.
Gotcha.
Yeah, I agree educating voters is important, my wife & I make a point of looking up the candidates and ballot questions in advance of voting. I would be lying if I said we discussed every candidate in every election, but we definitely discuss the ballot questions and their implications. I think everyone should. There absolutely should be as much emphasis on educating voters as there is in getting people to vote. With that being said, is this scenario that I boldfaced above actually happening? Are people being encouraged to vote, but to do so blindly / without reading up on the issues? If so, I haven’t seen that. There is opposition from the left to GOP voter restriction legislation, but its just that... I don’t see how opposing voting restrictions = what you’re saying. If you look into the source of this quote however, you’ll see that it was made in support of voter restriction legislation in AZ - legislation that if it passes, will make it harder for people to vote. So while the quote on its own may be worthy of discussion, the source and context show it’s less concerned with having more educated voters than it is with making obstacles to voting.
I’m on board when you say let’s encourage voter education as much as we encourage voter turnout.
I am however firmly against making it harder to vote. Never once did it cross my mind that America should make it harder for Trump voters to cast their ballots in the next election.
I have not doubt you are a more informed voter than the average American, Merkin. For sure!
I agree, it should not be made harder to vote. Suppressing the black vote in particular has been a nasty ruse of the hard right of the Republican party (though I doubt the Lincoln Project people feel that way).
Quality as defined by race, ethnicity, gender, age, economic status, prestige, lineage, etc.
Same quality of "men" declared at the nation's inception, "...that all men are created equal..."
That's America.
It sure is.
Where on God's scorched earth did you get the idea I or anyone here is suggesting "this [is] where we sign up to make sure the right people can vote and also be able to reproduce?" Come on man. You know that's not where I'm at. Fucking fuck!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I’m in favor of a more well informed voting public, I think any rational person probably is, but that isn’t the issue at the heart of this IMO.
No American has a right to judge the quality of another American’s vote though.
Shouldn’t that be the bottom line, here?
I totally agree that no American has the right to judge another person's right to vote as they choose. Of course, that includes allowing the right for many millions of Americans to vote for someone who is crude, misogynistic, anti-environment, anti-democracy and totally unqualified for the job of POTUS- which, as we all know did happen. That result may be a good reason to focus on quality of vote vs quantity. I'm not sure what the author of the OP quote means by a "quality vote", but to me, it means giving voters the opportunity to be well informed and better educated and, in fact, strongly encouraging that to be the case. Just seeking quantity of votes seems, to me, to be putting the cart before the horse and makes little sense.
Honest question: are you unfamiliar with the source and context of the quote? Or are you just trying to have a discussion based on the quote itself in a vacuum?
Yes and yes to the first two questions. I used the quote as a jumping off point to discuss the idea of quantity of votes vs. quality. It's an issue I believe deserves consideration. I don't find it useful to say "let's get as many people as possible to vote" before (or at least without) advocating voter education.
I have often questioned why it is more important to have as many voters as possible with little or no concern for how well voters are educated on the process of government as well as the issues and candidates themselves. We live in a world where ideas are formed and where votes are cast based on very sketchy notions formed by reading headlines rather than articles, or political cartoons, or memes or other forms of information that are unverified and showing little thought for value of information. That, for example, is why I stated on the Cuomo thread that I believed reactions were being formed quickly on a sketchy source. And unfortunately, some here took that to mean I am OK with sexual harassment- which, of course, is an extremely poorly formed assumption.
Gotcha.
Yeah, I agree educating voters is important, my wife & I make a point of looking up the candidates and ballot questions in advance of voting. I would be lying if I said we discussed every candidate in every election, but we definitely discuss the ballot questions and their implications. I think everyone should. There absolutely should be as much emphasis on educating voters as there is in getting people to vote. With that being said, is this scenario that I boldfaced above actually happening? Are people being encouraged to vote, but to do so blindly / without reading up on the issues? If so, I haven’t seen that. There is opposition from the left to GOP voter restriction legislation, but its just that... I don’t see how opposing voting restrictions = what you’re saying. If you look into the source of this quote however, you’ll see that it was made in support of voter restriction legislation in AZ - legislation that if it passes, will make it harder for people to vote. So while the quote on its own may be worthy of discussion, the source and context show it’s less concerned with having more educated voters than it is with making obstacles to voting.
I’m on board when you say let’s encourage voter education as much as we encourage voter turnout.
I am however firmly against making it harder to vote. Never once did it cross my mind that America should make it harder for Trump voters to cast their ballots in the next election.
I have not doubt you are a more informed voter than the average American, Merkin. For sure!
I agree, it should not be made harder to vote. Suppressing the black vote in particular has been a nasty ruse of the hard right of the Republican party (though I doubt the Lincoln Project people feel that way).
Quality as defined by race, ethnicity, gender, age, economic status, prestige, lineage, etc.
Same quality of "men" declared at the nation's inception, "...that all men are created equal..."
That's America.
It sure is.
Where on God's scorched earth did you get the idea I or anyone here is suggesting "this [is] where we sign up to make sure the right people can vote and also be able to reproduce?" Come on man. You know that's not where I'm at. Fucking fuck!
Well... I’m trying anyway (but have a long way to go). As I understand it, they do keep track of how often people vote, so in recent years I’ve been trying to at least show as having voted... sometimes I skip certain votes if I don’t know enough about the candidates or if I’m torn on a ballot question... but I at least try to get my name down as showing up.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,721
Paying Ten Club dues is important, but the quality of one's Pearl Jam fandom should determine their posting privilege.
I support your right to interpret this conversation any way you choose, Hobbes, but I'm guessing the way you see what I have said is not the meaning I have intended. If I have not made myself properly clear, I am sorry. But I've re-read my posts. I think they are clear.
So what gives, guys? All the right wingers have abandoned AMT and you need someone else to vent anger toward? All of you have been friendly toward me in the past and now I say something that doesn't align 100% with your viewpoint and now am am your fucking enemy? No, I am not butt hurt but I am also not your fucking target. I support most of the things you support but I do not believe in blind acceptance of any ideas.
In simple language everyone should be able to understand:
I believe in free and critical thinking.
I am strongly in favor of advocating better voter education.
I in no way support voter suppression.
I am not at all in favor of anyone getting to decide who gets to reproduce.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
No, I'm saying Pearl Jam fans are a bunch of elitist fucks.
Clique-ish.
Well, a bit clique-ish anway, lol.
OK guys, look, I apologize for loosing my cool. That is not cool.
But it concerns me that sometimes it feels like no one here is allowed a differing opinion without getting stomped on. There is a member here with whom I have PM'd a number of times about their concern for not feeling free to being able to post without severe retribution. That person has some things that are worth considering but no longer wishes to share them for fear of being treated like shit. That's not cool.
When I was growing up and became interested in current events, politics, race, culture and all that, I formulated the impression that a "conservative" was someone who did not tolerate the ideas of others, who suppressed the voices of those they did not agree with, and who were so set in their thinking that they would not even consider an opinion that was not 100% aligned with theirs. Let's not be that kind of conservative.
I have to run. You all have a good day. I'm sorry for my anger.
Peace,
Brian
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,796
edited March 2021
there may have been a different way to frame instead of using that quote.
something along the lines of how can we get to a more informed and expanded voter base?
frankly I think it begins at home with parents modeling engagement and at school with civics being taught.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Paying Ten Club dues is important, but the quality of one's Pearl Jam fandom should determine their posting privilege.
I support your right to interpret this conversation any way you choose, Hobbes, but I'm guessing the way you see what I have said is not the meaning I have intended. If I have not made myself properly clear, I am sorry. But I've re-read my posts. I think they are clear.
So what gives, guys? All the right wingers have abandoned AMT and you need someone else to vent anger toward? All of you have been friendly toward me in the past and now I say something that doesn't align 100% with your viewpoint and now am am your fucking enemy? No, I am not butt hurt but I am also not your fucking target. I support most of the things you support but I do not believe in blind acceptance of any ideas.
In simple language everyone should be able to understand:
I believe in free and critical thinking.
I am strongly in favor of advocating better voter education.
I in no way support voter suppression.
I am not at all in favor of anyone getting to decide who gets to reproduce.
To the point of a more educated voter, there was an account I used to follow on Twitter (@stonekettle maybe?) that would blame the current state of affairs on an apathetic citizenry of the last few decades, and I don’t disagree with him.
“Want a better country? Be a better citizen”
Being a better citizen means getting off your ass, reading up on the candidates & voting every time.
I’ve jokingly made similar comments when ridiculously dumb things pass, like the San Francisco Bullet train from 10 or 12 years ago. When things like that do pass I just scratch my head and wonder how, and come to the conclusion people don’t read the bill and just think bullet train sounds cool, or are easily fooled. So when talking about preventing something like that again I joke and say there should be an IQ test attached to a ballot and you must score at least 75, or a few basic general knowledge questions.
But in reality, if you meet the legal criteria to vote (age, citizen, etc) that shouldn’t be taken away without a more valid reason.
Funny that, I think the same for pro gun legislation but me thinks the passing score is much, much lower. Plus, the reason the transportation bill passed was the average voter probably thought it was a gun that would take you places. Freedumb.
Comments
Fuck the fucking what?
Where on God's scorched earth did you get the idea I or anyone here is suggesting "this [is] where we sign up to make sure the right people can vote and also be able to reproduce?" Come on man. You know that's not where I'm at. Fucking fuck!
Clique-ish.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Being a better citizen means getting off your ass, reading up on the candidates & voting every time.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
As to the quote in the original post, it's garbage and has no place in a functioning democracy.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Well, one thing I can say is: ya gotta check your racism if your trying to pick the whitest name off the list.
Stand back when the spirit comes.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©