The Texas Deep Freeze

brianlux

Here's a thread that's a bit over-due.  The Texas freeze has been talked about elsewhere but it is a major even and the discussion really does not relate to the PG&E thread.

So OK, most of us here are at least left-leaning if not outright die-hard liberals, but what has and is happening in Texas is a human issue and, believe it or not, not all Texans are cretins deserving of a slow and painful death.  Take my aunt-in-law and cousin-in-law who live there.  Wonderful, lovely people. We have wonderful forum members here we care about.  Let's keep this humane.

What I'm hoping for is that we'll see people across the nation help out in a time of need.  It looks like the Biden and the feds via FEMA are stepping up as they should be.  Here's what's going on that way:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/20/biden-approves-major-disaster-declaration-texas-deep-freeze

Maybe if we give our southern fellow country women and men a helping hand they and we will become more connected instead of being at each others throats. 

static111

I wish they would have gotten some of the big mobile power generators down here while the outages were at their worst, that would have been a big help.   Having worked on them I know that fema has mobile generators that can quickly be mobilized during disasters to power hospitals, water plants, city power etc.   

it’s great that something is being done albeit a little late. There is definitely work to do restoring the water mains and the power grid. I just hope no public dollars for to the upgrading of the private grid.  Hopefully public funds will be tied to increased regulations, or the private for profit deregulated grid will be held responsible and have to pay for their own winterizing efforts etc.

brianlux

static111 said:

I wish they would have gotten some of the big mobile power generators down here while the outages were at their worst, that would have been a big help.   Having worked on them I know that fema has mobile generators that can quickly be mobilized during disasters to power hospitals, water plants, city power etc.   

it’s great that something is being done albeit a little late. There is definitely work to do restoring the water mains and the power grid. I just hope no public dollars for to the upgrading of the private grid.  Hopefully public funds will be tied to increased regulations, or the private for profit deregulated grid will be held responsible and have to pay for their own winterizing efforts etc.

Sounds like mobile generators would have been a big help.  How big an area can they power up- any idea?

Stay safe out there!

Meltdown99

this is Brian’s gentle way of say “quit hijacking my thread”...

static111

brianlux said:

static111 said:

I wish they would have gotten some of the big mobile power generators down here while the outages were at their worst, that would have been a big help.   Having worked on them I know that fema has mobile generators that can quickly be mobilized during disasters to power hospitals, water plants, city power etc.   

it’s great that something is being done albeit a little late. There is definitely work to do restoring the water mains and the power grid. I just hope no public dollars for to the upgrading of the private grid.  Hopefully public funds will be tied to increased regulations, or the private for profit deregulated grid will be held responsible and have to pay for their own winterizing efforts etc.

Sounds like mobile generators would have been a big help.  How big an area can they power up- any idea?

Stay safe out there!

If they string a few together, no problem powering a mid size city.  One on its own could power a water plant or a hospital easily.  

At this point we are in the disaster management phase I guess...I still don’t think fema has started distributing water, though I could be wrong. Local assistance groups, mutual aids, and grocery stores have so far done more than the federal or state government.

cincybearcat

So - just saw the Houston mayor asked “who should pay for these improvements, etc” and he said not the people, the state of texas should. Ummmmmmm who pays the state of Texas?

and in reality, if you have been electing officials and not paying what you should have to winterize your grid...you were getting the $ benefit then...shouldn’t you pay now?

I don’t mean these crazy bills they are talking right in the moment...but increase cost for the service?

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

this is Brian’s gentle way of say “quit hijacking my thread”...

Haha, naaaw.  

True, they are similar subjects.  Maybe I should have just kept the first thread and changed the title to  "Regardless of the Fact That a State May Generally Be Liberal Such as California or Widely Conservative Such as Texas, How Climate Change, Politics and the Mishandling of Public Utilities Creates Disastrous Consequences for Wide Spread Populations in Various States."

Or make the two separate ones:

"How Cali got Fornicated" and "Tex got its Ass kicked".

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

this is Brian’s gentle way of say “quit hijacking my thread”...

Haha, naaaw.  

True, they are similar subjects.  Maybe I should have just kept the first thread and changed the title to  "Regardless of the Fact That a State May Generally Be Liberal Such as California or Widely Conservative Such as Texas, How Climate Change, Politics and the Mishandling of Public Utilities Creates Disastrous Consequences for Wide Spread Populations in Various States."

Or make the two separate ones:

"How Cali got Fornicated" and "Tex got its Ass kicked".

  

static111

cincybearcat said:

So - just saw the Houston mayor asked “who should pay for these improvements, etc” and he said not the people, the state of texas should. Ummmmmmm who pays the state of Texas?

and in reality, if you have been electing officials and not paying what you should have to winterize your grid...you were getting the $ benefit then...shouldn’t you pay now?

I don’t mean these crazy bills they are talking right in the moment...but increase cost for the service?

Fuck no to increase service costs.  It’s a myth that we have cheaper power down here than those connected to the grid.  My dad pays less in rural northern Michigan during the winter in electricity for a 3 bedroom house than I do on a two bedroom apartment.  We need to connect to the grid.  This has been a failure and if they want to remain an unregulated privatized grid, they need to eat the costs of the improvements that they should have put in place when this happened 20 and 30 years ago.

mickeyrat

 

·

FEBRUARY 21, 2021, 7:22 AM

Texas freeze led to release of tons of air pollutants as refineries shut

Laura Sanicola, Erwin Seba

NEW YORK/HOUSTON (Reuters) - The largest U.S. oil refiners released tons of air pollutants into the skies over Texas this week, according to figures provided to the state, as one environmental crisis triggered another.

Refiners and petrochemical plants along the U.S. Gulf Coast scrambled to shut production as an arctic air mass spread into a region unused to frigid temperatures.

The extreme cold, which killed at least two dozen people in Texas and knocked out power to more than 4 million at its peak, also hit natural gas and electric generation, cutting supplies needed to run the plants.

Shutdowns led to the refineries flaring, or burning and releasing gases, to prevent damage to their processing units. That flaring darkened the skies in eastern Texas with smoke visible for miles.

“These emissions can dwarf the usual emissions of the refineries by orders of magnitude,” said Jane Williams, chair of the Sierra Club’s National Clean Air Team.

She said U.S. regulators must change policies that allow “these massive emissions to occur with impunity.”

TOP POLLUTERS

The five largest refiners emitted nearly 337,000 pounds of pollutants, including benzene, carbon monoxide, hydrogen sulfide and sulfur dioxide, according to preliminary data supplied to the Texas Commission on Environment Quality (TCEQ).

Valero Energy said in a filing with the TCEQ that it released 78,000 pounds over 24 hours beginning Feb. 15 from its Port Arthur refinery, citing the frigid cold and interruptions in utility services.

The 118,100 pounds of emissions from Motiva’s Port Arthur, Texas, refinery between Feb. 15 and Feb. 18 were more than three times the excess emissions that it declared to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for the whole of 2019.

Marathon Petroleum’s Galveston Bay Refinery released 14,255 pounds over less than five hours on Feb. 15, equivalent to about 10% of its total releases above permitted levels in 2019.

Exxon Mobil said its Baytown Olefins Plant emitted nearly one ton of benzene and 68,000 tons of carbon monoxide, citing in its disclosure the halting of “multiple process units and safe utilization of the flare system.”

Exxon blamed the shutdown of two Texas refineries on the freezing weather and loss of natural gas supplies. A spokesman said its petrochemical plants in Texas and Louisiana have supplied 560 megawatts to local communities, helping power about 300,000 homes.

FILE PHOTO: A police officer drives past a refinery in the industrial east end in Pasadena, Texas, U.S., September 18, 2018. REUTERS/Loren Elliott/File Photo

Valero did not have an immediate comment. Motiva and Marathon did not respond to requests for comment.

Final figures on pollution releases are due to be submitted to the state in two weeks.

‘NO SAFE AMOUNT’

The flaring continued through the week as refiners kept plants out of service.

“We had six or seven flares going at one time,” Hilton Kelly, who lives in Port Arthur, home to refineries operated by Motiva, Valero and Total SE, said on Friday. “It’s still happening now.”

Sharon Wilson, a researcher at advocacy group Earthworks, said the releases are alarming, in part because “there is no safe amount of benzene for human exposure.”

State data showing oil and gas producers were flaring methane this week “is just making things worse, and it could have been prevented” by winterizing facilities, she said.

Texas oil and gas companies filed 174 notices of pollution releases above permitted levels between Feb. 11 and Feb. 18, four times the number the prior week, according to TCEQ data.

Total pollution at Houston-area facilities during the cold snap totaled approximately 703,000 pounds, about 3% of the total pollution over permitted amounts for all of 2019 and almost 10% of 2018’s releases, according to TCEQ data analyzed by advocacy group Environment Texas.

Reporting by Laura Sanicola in New York and Erwin Seba in Houston; Editing by Gary McWilliams and Daniel Wallis

PJNB

While having refineries flaring and polluting the air like that is not ideal the result of not flaring would have been much worse. I am actually very worried about all of the freeze and splits that they are going to find when stuff starts to thaw out and they start all of these refineries back up. That has the potential to be a very dangerous situation for the workers involved

mickeyrat

The family of an 11-year-old who died in Texas is suing power company Entergy and grid operator Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) for more than $100 million, citing gross negligence over the boy's death. Cristian Pavon died on Tuesday after a frigid night in his family's mobile home in Conroe, Texas.

The home had been without power since the Sunday before. 

As CBS Houston affiliate KHOU reports, the lawsuit claims Pavon died of hypothermia. A cause of death has yet to be released by medical examiners.

The family is being represented by attorney Tony Buzbee. CBS News has reached out for comment.

Pavon's mother, Maria Elisa Pineda Guzman, said the family had been sleeping in one room to keep warm. "He fell asleep. He had a shirt, a sweater, two pairs of pants, socks on," Pavon's aunt, Jaliza Yera, told K'HOU. His stepfather checked on him later that evening and put another blanket over him.

The family tried to wake up Pavon on Tuesday afternoon but he was unresponsive. The family told KHOU that they tried calling 911 but were waiting on a Spanish-language operator.

KHOU obtained statements from Entergy and ERCOT about the case. "We are deeply saddened by the loss of life in our community. We are unable to comment due to pending litigation," Entergy responded.

ERCOT released a statement saying it had yet to review the lawsuit. "[We] will respond accordingly when we do. Our thoughts are with all Texans who have or are suffering due to this past week."

"However, because approximately 46% of privately-owned generators tripped offline this past Monday morning, we are confident that our grid operators made the right choice to avoid a statewide blackout," ERCOT said.

via cbs news

static111

Back to work today.  Somehow after all this, the good ole boys are blaming the federal government and saying there is nothing wrong with our power grid, that no winterization is needed, and that it all would have worked without interference... hopeless folks

mickeyrat

static111 said:

Back to work today.  Somehow after all this, the good ole boys are blaming the federal government and saying there is nothing wrong with our power grid, that no winterization is needed, and that it all would have worked without interference... hopeless folks

intensely curious to know just what tge interference was? Northern cold air being sent to southern Tx?

Bentleyspop

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

Back to work today.  Somehow after all this, the good ole boys are blaming the federal government and saying there is nothing wrong with our power grid, that no winterization is needed, and that it all would have worked without interference... hopeless folks

intensely curious to know just what tge interference was? Northern cold air being sent to southern Tx?

Antifa

static111

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

Back to work today.  Somehow after all this, the good ole boys are blaming the federal government and saying there is nothing wrong with our power grid, that no winterization is needed, and that it all would have worked without interference... hopeless folks

intensely curious to know just what tge interference was? Northern cold air being sent to southern Tx?

Apparently the federal govt that has no jurisdiction here. And Black Lives Matter and Obama

gimmesometruth27

it is actually a normal temperature here today. thank god. that cold snap felt like it lasted 3 scaramuccis.

OnWis97

So Texans are getting $10,000 utility bills...

God bless deregulation!

brianlux

Exact opposite here- unusually warm.  Literally broke a sweat walking today.

static111

OnWis97 said:

So Texans are getting $10,000 utility bills...

God bless deregulation!

That’s the cost of freedom I guess

Lerxst1992

static111 said:

I wish they would have gotten some of the big mobile power generators down here while the outages were at their worst, that would have been a big help.   Having worked on them I know that fema has mobile generators that can quickly be mobilized during disasters to power hospitals, water plants, city power etc.   

it’s great that something is being done albeit a little late. There is definitely work to do restoring the water mains and the power grid. I just hope no public dollars for to the upgrading of the private grid.  Hopefully public funds will be tied to increased regulations, or the private for profit deregulated grid will be held responsible and have to pay for their own winterizing efforts etc.

If I understand the facts correctly, 75% of the power was restored within 5 days. Moving big mobile power generators takes time, unlikely to have gotten there in time and then installed.

texans knew to have winter coats yet its leaders did not know to winterize its utility assets. Unfortunately Texans got exactly what they voted for. Sometimes the best solution is to communicate the harshest reality so history doesn’t repeat itself.

Lerxst1992

brianlux said:

Here's a thread that's a bit over-due.  The Texas freeze has been talked about elsewhere but it is a major even and the discussion really does not relate to the PG&E thread.

So OK, most of us here are at least left-leaning if not outright die-hard liberals, but what has and is happening in Texas is a human issue and, believe it or not, not all Texans are cretins deserving of a slow and painful death.  Take my aunt-in-law and cousin-in-law who live there.  Wonderful, lovely people. We have wonderful forum members here we care about.  Let's keep this humane.

What I'm hoping for is that we'll see people across the nation help out in a time of need.  It looks like the Biden and the feds via FEMA are stepping up as they should be.  Here's what's going on that way:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/20/biden-approves-major-disaster-declaration-texas-deep-freeze

Maybe if we give our southern fellow country women and men a helping hand they and we will become more connected instead of being at each others throats. 

The utility situations in California and Texas are very comparable, and somewhat proves trumps point of a liberal media bias.

In Texas, the liberal media was quick to correctly point out it is the republican state governments responsibility to regulate, review and approve every dollar that  is spent to improve assets, yet in California, the liberal media constantly vilifies the utility and holds the democratic state government nearly blameless, even when the evidence is overwhelming the state of California rejected attempts to invest in infrastructure improvements. 

In order to turn the page, it’s important for all of us who vote to understand what we are voting for. And most voters do not fully understand the government’s enormous role in utility management, I guess until it’s a republican state that screws up.

static111

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

I wish they would have gotten some of the big mobile power generators down here while the outages were at their worst, that would have been a big help.   Having worked on them I know that fema has mobile generators that can quickly be mobilized during disasters to power hospitals, water plants, city power etc.   

it’s great that something is being done albeit a little late. There is definitely work to do restoring the water mains and the power grid. I just hope no public dollars for to the upgrading of the private grid.  Hopefully public funds will be tied to increased regulations, or the private for profit deregulated grid will be held responsible and have to pay for their own winterizing efforts etc.

If I understand the facts correctly, 75% of the power was restored within 5 days. Moving big mobile power generators takes time, unlikely to have gotten there in time and then installed.

texans knew to have winter coats yet its leaders did not know to winterize its utility assets. Unfortunately Texans got exactly what they voted for. Sometimes the best solution is to communicate the harshest reality so history doesn’t repeat itself.

Half of voting Texans got what they voted for, through gerrymandering and years of voter suppression.

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

The family of an 11-year-old who died in Texas is suing power company Entergy and grid operator Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) for more than $100 million, citing gross negligence over the boy's death. Cristian Pavon died on Tuesday after a frigid night in his family's mobile home in Conroe, Texas.

The home had been without power since the Sunday before. 

As CBS Houston affiliate KHOU reports, the lawsuit claims Pavon died of hypothermia. A cause of death has yet to be released by medical examiners.

The family is being represented by attorney Tony Buzbee. CBS News has reached out for comment.

Pavon's mother, Maria Elisa Pineda Guzman, said the family had been sleeping in one room to keep warm. "He fell asleep. He had a shirt, a sweater, two pairs of pants, socks on," Pavon's aunt, Jaliza Yera, told K'HOU. His stepfather checked on him later that evening and put another blanket over him.

The family tried to wake up Pavon on Tuesday afternoon but he was unresponsive. The family told KHOU that they tried calling 911 but were waiting on a Spanish-language operator.

KHOU obtained statements from Entergy and ERCOT about the case. "We are deeply saddened by the loss of life in our community. We are unable to comment due to pending litigation," Entergy responded.

ERCOT released a statement saying it had yet to review the lawsuit. "[We] will respond accordingly when we do. Our thoughts are with all Texans who have or are suffering due to this past week."

"However, because approximately 46% of privately-owned generators tripped offline this past Monday morning, we are confident that our grid operators made the right choice to avoid a statewide blackout," ERCOT said.

via cbs news

This must have been an electric only Mobile home.  That is awful for the family.

tempo_n_groove

I was in Jackson Mississippi in 2009 when a freak snowstorm hit.  A cold spell followed.  It was only 6" of snow but the local news and radio stations were begging people to not go out if you don't have to.  I was surprised at how bad it sounded so I wanted to be a looky lou and on the way home drove through town rather than around it and I couldn't understand what the panic was all about?  My buddy says that down south this NEVER happens so people just aren't used to it or prepared for it.

Something else that the infrastructure wasn't prepared for was water pipes freezing and bursting.  The frost line wasn't nearly deep enough for the pipes not to freeze.  The city spent the next month asking people to use bottled water until all the pipes were repaired as it might not be safe to drink.

PJPOWER

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

Here's a thread that's a bit over-due.  The Texas freeze has been talked about elsewhere but it is a major even and the discussion really does not relate to the PG&E thread.

So OK, most of us here are at least left-leaning if not outright die-hard liberals, but what has and is happening in Texas is a human issue and, believe it or not, not all Texans are cretins deserving of a slow and painful death.  Take my aunt-in-law and cousin-in-law who live there.  Wonderful, lovely people. We have wonderful forum members here we care about.  Let's keep this humane.

What I'm hoping for is that we'll see people across the nation help out in a time of need.  It looks like the Biden and the feds via FEMA are stepping up as they should be.  Here's what's going on that way:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/20/biden-approves-major-disaster-declaration-texas-deep-freeze

Maybe if we give our southern fellow country women and men a helping hand they and we will become more connected instead of being at each others throats. 

The utility situations in California and Texas are very comparable, and somewhat proves trumps point of a liberal media bias.

In Texas, the liberal media was quick to correctly point out it is the republican state governments responsibility to regulate, review and approve every dollar that  is spent to improve assets, yet in California, the liberal media constantly vilifies the utility and holds the democratic state government nearly blameless, even when the evidence is overwhelming the state of California rejected attempts to invest in infrastructure improvements. 

In order to turn the page, it’s important for all of us who vote to understand what we are voting for. And most voters do not fully understand the government’s enormous role in utility management, I guess until it’s a republican state that screws up.

That’s a good point.  The one in 2003 was a pretty big deal and effected mostly liberal states.  
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/08/photos-15-years-since-the-2003-northeast-blackout/567410/
New Yorkers were without power for 2 weeks after hurricane Sandy...(shouldn’t the infrastructure be prepared for hurricanes by now)?
The 2011 Southwest blackout was no walk in the park:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Southwest_blackout

tempo_n_groove

PJPOWER said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

Here's a thread that's a bit over-due.  The Texas freeze has been talked about elsewhere but it is a major even and the discussion really does not relate to the PG&E thread.

So OK, most of us here are at least left-leaning if not outright die-hard liberals, but what has and is happening in Texas is a human issue and, believe it or not, not all Texans are cretins deserving of a slow and painful death.  Take my aunt-in-law and cousin-in-law who live there.  Wonderful, lovely people. We have wonderful forum members here we care about.  Let's keep this humane.

What I'm hoping for is that we'll see people across the nation help out in a time of need.  It looks like the Biden and the feds via FEMA are stepping up as they should be.  Here's what's going on that way:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/20/biden-approves-major-disaster-declaration-texas-deep-freeze

Maybe if we give our southern fellow country women and men a helping hand they and we will become more connected instead of being at each others throats. 

The utility situations in California and Texas are very comparable, and somewhat proves trumps point of a liberal media bias.

In Texas, the liberal media was quick to correctly point out it is the republican state governments responsibility to regulate, review and approve every dollar that  is spent to improve assets, yet in California, the liberal media constantly vilifies the utility and holds the democratic state government nearly blameless, even when the evidence is overwhelming the state of California rejected attempts to invest in infrastructure improvements. 

In order to turn the page, it’s important for all of us who vote to understand what we are voting for. And most voters do not fully understand the government’s enormous role in utility management, I guess until it’s a republican state that screws up.

That’s a good point.  The one in 2003 was a pretty big deal and effected mostly liberal states.  
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/08/photos-15-years-since-the-2003-northeast-blackout/567410/
New Yorkers were without power for 2 weeks after hurricane Sandy...(shouldn’t the infrastructure be prepared for hurricanes by now)?
The 2011 Southwest blackout was no walk in the park:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Southwest_blackout

Sandy wasn't a hurricane but a perfect storm if you will.  It was more of a Tsunami that took out the power grid here.  NY also changed laws so that gas stations have to have a back up generator in case such an event happens again.

NY did learn from it.  NYers learned from it too.

Want to hear something crazy?  Clinton when in the Senate here proposed a multi billion dollar plan to stop such a surge of weather from hurricanes and storms alike.  I for one thought she was nuts.  I was also wrong.  The amount of money that was spent on infrastructure here in mind numbing.

OnWis97

The conspiracy theory that Texas's snow is fake and made by the government has enough legs that snopes is weighing in.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fake-snow-texas/?utm_source=agorapulse&utm_campaign=1p

static111

OnWis97 said:

The conspiracy theory that Texas's snow is fake and made by the government has enough legs that snopes is weighing in.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fake-snow-texas/?utm_source=agorapulse&utm_campaign=1p

Holy fuck. I grew up in northern Michigan, 45 minutes from the Canadian border.  I know snow! What we just experienced in Texas was a fucking Alberta clipper From Hell! Anyone that thinks that kind of snow could be a false flag, probably should just die.

OnWis97

static111 said:

OnWis97 said:

The conspiracy theory that Texas's snow is fake and made by the government has enough legs that snopes is weighing in.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fake-snow-texas/?utm_source=agorapulse&utm_campaign=1p

Holy fuck. I grew up in northern Michigan, 45 minutes from the Canadian border.  I know snow! What we just experienced in Texas was a fucking Alberta clipper From Hell! Anyone that thinks that kind of snow could be a false flag, probably should just die.

It's really disappointing that the Deep State had the ability to blanket most of the second-biggest state in phony snow and to make it fall so uniformly from the sky (covering thousands of square miles, mind you) and they can't even use the space lasers to take out Fox News's satellites.

tempo_n_groove

OnWis97 said:

The conspiracy theory that Texas's snow is fake and made by the government has enough legs that snopes is weighing in.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fake-snow-texas/?utm_source=agorapulse&utm_campaign=1p

I would love to find the thread where this is actually discussed to make Snopes put something out about it, or "threads" but then again they believe that Snopes is funded by Soros and the deep state too.