Verse from "Society", what does it mean to you?

Scottacus

On the "Into the Wild" Soundtrack there's a song called "Society" written by Jerry Hannan. One verse keeps resurfacing in my mind:

There's those thinking more or less
Less is more
But if less is more,
How you keepin' score?

Means for every for every point you make
Your level drops
Kinda like you're starting from the top
You can't do that.

What does that verse mean to you?

Them-Bones

I personally think the lyrics are garbage, and that part makes me cringe, I was happy to know Ed didn't write that tripe.

wolfbear

Scottacus wrote:

On the "Into the Wild" Soundtrack there's a song called "Society" written by Jerry Hannan. One verse keeps resurfacing in my mind:

There's those thinking more or less
Less is more
But if less is more,
How you keepin' score?

Means for every for every point you make
Your level drops
Kinda like you're starting from the top
You can't do that.

What does that verse mean to you?

My take is:
#1 = no material items to show, but you do in fact have more in the way of quality of life etc.

#2 = That if you try to argue that you do have more, it degrades what you were saying

gue_barium

wolfbear wrote:

My take is:
#1 = no material items to show, but you do in fact have more in the way of quality of life etc.

#2 = That if you try to argue that you do have more, it degrades what you were saying

Yeah, both maybe. Questioning a black and white viewpoint, rigid thinking sort of thing.
I should probably read all the lyrics, though.

gue_barium

Them-Bones wrote:

I personally think the lyrics are garbage, and that part makes me cringe, I was happy to know Ed didn't write that tripe.

I think the lyrics reflect the thoughts and ambition of the subject pretty well.

CHANGEinWAVES

i love the way ed does the song...I'm just not fond of the "you can't do that " part.

MahoganySouls

I take it to mean that whether you are rich or poor, have abundance or little, are extravagant or simple, you cannot "keep score", you cannot judge the other or think your way is better. You have to accept that what is, is right for each individual. (Gee whiz I sound like Angelica now)

writersu

Scottacus wrote:

On the "Into the Wild" Soundtrack there's a song called "Society" written by Jerry Hannan. One verse keeps resurfacing in my mind:

There's those thinking more or less
Less is more
But if less is more,
How you keepin' score?

Means for every for every point you make
Your level drops
Kinda like you're starting from the top
You can't do that.

What does that verse mean to you?

I think that the first part means that if you are thinking that "less is more' how can you count how much you have in life because you are not counting up.

And I think the second part is referring to that if you are the opposite of that
and you are always keeping track of how much you have and checking in around you to see how you are doing in comparison with other people, then even though you are getting further along in what appears to be the game you are playing, you aren't at all because there is always people who are getting more than you.

It reminds me of when I first moved in my new neighborhood and met the other women. I use to think that those who married a doctor had it "made" so to speak, but then as I got to know them better, I realized that if that is how you gaged your life, then in that realm of doctors, or being married to one, you had your own little pecking order, because it then broke down into what kind of a doctor are you or are you married to?

Ian M

Ever since Yield and the Daniel Quinn 'liner notes' admission, I've grown increasingly fond of playing the 'spot the Ishmael influence' game in PJ lyrics. Perhaps I should start a thread...

Although these aren't Vedder's words, the first time I heard that verse it struck me as very 'Ishmaelesque' in the way it seems to be taking to task the 'Voluntary Poverty' approach to changing the world through individual behaviour - that whole baggage of self-denial we've inherited from Christianity. Have a read of this extract:

http://www.ishmael.org/origins/My_ishmael/excerpts/

especially this bit:

---

"I too say 'forget about giving up things.' You shouldn't think of yourselves as wealthy people who must give up some of your riches. You should think of yourselves as people in desperate need. Do you understand the root meaning of the word wealth, Julie?"
"I'm not sure."
"What root word is the word warmth based on?"
"Warm, obviously."
"So take a guess. What root word is the word wealth based on?"
"Well?"
"Of course. In its root sense, wealth isn't a synonym for money, it's a synonym for wellness. In terms of products, you are of course fabulously wealthy, but in terms of human wealth, you are pathetically poor. In terms of human wealth, you're the wretched of the earth. And this is why you shouldn't focus on giving up things. How can you expect the wretched of the earth to give up anything? That's impossible. On the contrary, you must absolutely concentrate on getting things -- but not more toasters, Julie. Not more radios. Not more television sets. Not more telephones. Not more CD players. Not more playthings. You must concentrate on getting the things you desperately need as human beings. At the moment you've given up on all those things, you've decided they can't be had. But my task, Julie, is to show you that this isn't the case. You don't have to give up on the things you desperately need as human beings. They're within your reach -- if you know where to look for them. If you know how to look for them. And this is what you came to me to learn."

---

I don't recall the rest of the film being any good, but I'm reminded of a bit from 'One True Thing' (it turns out after a little google research) when the upset daughter shouts at her relentlessly minimalistic father (I think he taught creative writing or something): 'Less isn't more; More is More!'

Moral? We need to remember that the most important kinds of wealth aren't valued in our culture - in fact there's a strong correlation between richness in material wealth and poverty in human social wealth (or: 'Seems the more you make equals the loneliness you get'...) - we should remember that in several important ways we're in fact 'starting from the bottom' in learning to appreciate and address the needs our civilisation has deemed unworthy of its attention.

Yoyoyo

gue_barium wrote:

I think the lyrics reflect the thoughts and ambition of the subject pretty well.

Wow we agree on something...finally.

catefrances

if less is more then how are you keeping score?

well if youre not like millions of people who measure their worth in this capitalist pig of a society by possessions then HOW ARE you keeping score?
is it by the love you give, the love you receive. is it by the calmness and serenity in your life? how do you measure something you can not physically hold in your grasp as a possession? how do you keep score when what matters to you is inside?

writersu

catefrances wrote:

if less is more then how are you keeping score?

well if youre not like millions of people who measure their worth in this capitalist pig of a society by possessions then HOW ARE you keeping score?
is it by the love you give, the love you receive. is it by the calmness and serenity in your life? how do you measure something you can not physically hold in your grasp as a possession? how do you keep score when what matters to you is inside?

I love that interpretation...........really.

slightofjeff

Them-Bones wrote:

I personally think the lyrics are garbage, and that part makes me cringe, I was happy to know Ed didn't write that tripe.

wow. just wow. For a while, I thought this was one of the best songs ed had ever written. then I realized ed didn't write it.

slightofjeff

Ian M wrote:

Ever since Yield and the Daniel Quinn 'liner notes' admission, I've grown increasingly fond of playing the 'spot the Ishmael influence' game in PJ lyrics. Perhaps I should start a thread...

Although these aren't Vedder's words, the first time I heard that verse it struck me as very 'Ishmaelesque' in the way it seems to be taking to task the 'Voluntary Poverty' approach to changing the world through individual behaviour - that whole baggage of self-denial we've inherited from Christianity. Have a read of this extract:

http://www.ishmael.org/origins/My_ishmael/excerpts/

especially this bit:

---

"I too say 'forget about giving up things.' You shouldn't think of yourselves as wealthy people who must give up some of your riches. You should think of yourselves as people in desperate need. Do you understand the root meaning of the word wealth, Julie?"
"I'm not sure."
"What root word is the word warmth based on?"
"Warm, obviously."
"So take a guess. What root word is the word wealth based on?"
"Well?"
"Of course. In its root sense, wealth isn't a synonym for money, it's a synonym for wellness. In terms of products, you are of course fabulously wealthy, but in terms of human wealth, you are pathetically poor. In terms of human wealth, you're the wretched of the earth. And this is why you shouldn't focus on giving up things. How can you expect the wretched of the earth to give up anything? That's impossible. On the contrary, you must absolutely concentrate on getting things -- but not more toasters, Julie. Not more radios. Not more television sets. Not more telephones. Not more CD players. Not more playthings. You must concentrate on getting the things you desperately need as human beings. At the moment you've given up on all those things, you've decided they can't be had. But my task, Julie, is to show you that this isn't the case. You don't have to give up on the things you desperately need as human beings. They're within your reach -- if you know where to look for them. If you know how to look for them. And this is what you came to me to learn."

---

I don't recall the rest of the film being any good, but I'm reminded of a bit from 'One True Thing' (it turns out after a little google research) when the upset daughter shouts at her relentlessly minimalistic father (I think he taught creative writing or something): 'Less isn't more; More is More!'

Moral? We need to remember that the most important kinds of wealth aren't valued in our culture - in fact there's a strong correlation between richness in material wealth and poverty in human social wealth (or: 'Seems the more you make equals the loneliness you get'...) - we should remember that in several important ways we're in fact 'starting from the bottom' in learning to appreciate and address the needs our civilisation has deemed unworthy of its attention.

this is excellent food for thought. Perhaps you should start that 'spot the Ishmael' thread after all ...

macgyver06

Scottacus wrote:

On the "Into the Wild" Soundtrack there's a song called "Society" written by Jerry Hannan. One verse keeps resurfacing in my mind:

There's those thinking more or less
Less is more
But if less is more,
How you keepin' score?

Means for every for every point you make
Your level drops
Kinda like you're starting from the top
You can't do that.

What does that verse mean to you?

i think of it like this...

you can strip your clothes and become naked and rebellious. you can tell people your entire life that you dont need things...and you are fine all alone... but if its you who is feeling this way...and its you who is making these statements...than you have put yourself above everyone else...like you are god trying to convince everyone that nothing is everything...

so the idea of this is sort of hypocritical...if you are doing these things and making these points than its you who neeeds people to listen to you, just like everyone else... and its you who needs attention... just like all of us...and its you who is crying out for everyone to join you... it isnt everyone crying out to join you..

so the first paragraph is asking a question..

and the second paragraph is explaining...if you put your lifestyle and ideals on top of the world to prove to everyone you are the way.. than you in your own head are at the top and the only way to go is down...you are living life as if you died first than slowly got younger... everyone is moving upstream and you are passing them going downstream..

and of course its all in the individuals head.... mentally unstable obviously but physically aging just like everyone else..


its sad this happens to people and its obvious why we need to help young people under any circumstance... not helping them hurts us all..


no one is any value to anyone if they are dead.

WickedJeremy

I took it like this: It seems to touch on the better way of living i.e. shedding material things and commonly accepted views, essentially, starting from the bottom. It seems to have a contradiction and I think this is intentional.

I think he is showing both extremes: to go for it all or leave it all behind. I think he is showing the difficulty in measuring such things. If you have nothing, you have nothing and if you make any points or views with nothing to base them on, your level drops, or conversely, if you believe that less is more, then when you make a good point, the point must carry a negative value (mathematically speaking), therefore, when you make a point, your level drops. And if you are going to insist on making more and more points, then your only direction of travel is down. To do this fully, you would have to start from the top and you can't do that since your entire philosophy is based on less is more.

I believe he is showing the downfall in both extremes: either letting go of everything or going after it all. Neither works completely. You obviously can't start at the top and no one every really starts at the bottom. At birth you are thrown into some point on the gauge of life. You have something or you wouldn't survive. So there is no real starting at the bottom either...be it materially or socially or financially.

Anyway, that's my 2 or 3 cents.

||Release_Me||

Does anyone know where i can find the original version of the song?

WickedJeremy

||Release_Me|| wrote:

Does anyone know where i can find the original version of the song?

I don't have th disc here but you can Google the guy's name and find his website. I was looking. It seems like it is available on one of his albums...not sure.

Mikkl

I think the whole song is a satire on the whole human race and how they think they're more important then the rest of the world.
"Less is more" - Well, it's true in the end. People that posses everything they want might be happy, but it's only material. People that posses nothing or almost nothing (Mccandless) Can be much happier without all that stuff, atleast they still have their souls.
He doesn't have to keep score for he's on his own and he has nothing to keep score about.The song is about having nothing and being free because of that.

Well, that's my opinion

manfred

i dig having cool things that i use. society is about looking at what everyone is obsessed with...noticing that they are obsessed with it and then making a choice not be a part of it... i also dig that. going against the grain is underated. everyone should do it alot more often

henrique.leo

This song is the reverse a Madonna's song and, it suport the verse "Everything is nothing" ...

There's no money, cars, mansions in the Heaven. Or in the hell...