#46 President Joe Biden
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mace1229 said:cottagesteeze said:mace1229 said:Gern Blansten said:mace1229 said:But paycheck to paycheck was just one point. Housing is crazy. Houses have doubled in 5 years, causing rent to go up as well. Interest rates have been way up in the last year. Inflation was way up. Cost of cars are way up. I read an article a few months ago that because more people can't afford new cars, the used market has gone way up and people are driving older cars much longer. Which makes repairs and maintenance more costly because auto shops are slammed try to keep older cars running longer than before. Good if you're a mechanic, bad if you're everyone else. It shouldn't be a surprise that more Americans are finding it harder to live on what they make compared to a few years ago.
Our economy ebbs and flows. Gas prices will decrease, food costs will decrease....and at the same time our economy will slow down. Then the GOP will scream about that. But again....they offer NO LEGISLATION to fix anything that they complain about.
That shortage in supply lead to people keeping their car longer, which also increased the cost of used car and maintenance, since, like you said, its a 10 day wait not instead of just 1.
With that shortage of new cars, the average price for a new car went up by 10k according to KBB.
I just disagree that this is a hot economy and everything is great financially. Cost is increasing a lot faster than wages and jobs.
Post edited by The Juggler onwww.myspace.com0 -
The Juggler said:mace1229 said:cottagesteeze said:mace1229 said:Gern Blansten said:mace1229 said:But paycheck to paycheck was just one point. Housing is crazy. Houses have doubled in 5 years, causing rent to go up as well. Interest rates have been way up in the last year. Inflation was way up. Cost of cars are way up. I read an article a few months ago that because more people can't afford new cars, the used market has gone way up and people are driving older cars much longer. Which makes repairs and maintenance more costly because auto shops are slammed try to keep older cars running longer than before. Good if you're a mechanic, bad if you're everyone else. It shouldn't be a surprise that more Americans are finding it harder to live on what they make compared to a few years ago.
Our economy ebbs and flows. Gas prices will decrease, food costs will decrease....and at the same time our economy will slow down. Then the GOP will scream about that. But again....they offer NO LEGISLATION to fix anything that they complain about.
That shortage in supply lead to people keeping their car longer, which also increased the cost of used car and maintenance, since, like you said, its a 10 day wait not instead of just 1.
With that shortage of new cars, the average price for a new car went up by 10k according to KBB.
I just disagree that this is a hot economy and everything is great financially. Cost is increasing a lot faster than wages and jobs.
A non-home owner trying to buy your first home is next to impossible right now. If you can afford it, you're paying triple the mortgage for someone who bought the same house 5 years ago. If you can't, you're paying a lot more in rent compared to a few years ago too. A lot of those people are struggling. Someone in finance or real estate who already owns a home, might not be.0 -
Actually, you can be paying a lot more than triple.
I used a mortgage calculator. The house we live in now sold for 206k in 2015. A mortgage then, if putting 20% down, would have likely cost about $700. We purchased it 1.5 years ago for 450, and is now valued at 550k. For someone to buy that home now the mortgage would be about $3400, if you put the 20% down, but who has 110k to do that? You're paying 5 times the mortgage from someone who bought the same house 8 years ago. And you want me to think Americans aren't struggling to pay bills, or they are just living beyond their means, or the fact they can't afford a car either is a good thing?
I'd be renting for the rest of my life if I was buying my first home now, and if we didn't buy 11 years ago and have a lot of equity from the market.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
mace1229 said:Actually, you can be paying a lot more than triple.
I used a mortgage calculator. The house we live in now sold for 206k in 2015. A mortgage then, if putting 20% down, would have likely cost about $700. We purchased it 1.5 years ago for 450, and is now valued at 550k. For someone to buy that home now the mortgage would be about $3400, if you put the 20% down, but who has 110k to do that? You're paying 5 times the mortgage from someone who bought the same house 8 years ago. And you want me to think Americans aren't struggling to pay bills, or they are just living beyond their means, or the fact they can't afford a car either is a good thing?
I'd be renting for the rest of my life if I was buying my first home now, and if we didn't buy 11 years ago and have a lot of equity from the market.0 -
cottagesteeze said:mace1229 said:Actually, you can be paying a lot more than triple.
I used a mortgage calculator. The house we live in now sold for 206k in 2015. A mortgage then, if putting 20% down, would have likely cost about $700. We purchased it 1.5 years ago for 450, and is now valued at 550k. For someone to buy that home now the mortgage would be about $3400, if you put the 20% down, but who has 110k to do that? You're paying 5 times the mortgage from someone who bought the same house 8 years ago. And you want me to think Americans aren't struggling to pay bills, or they are just living beyond their means, or the fact they can't afford a car either is a good thing?
I'd be renting for the rest of my life if I was buying my first home now, and if we didn't buy 11 years ago and have a lot of equity from the market.
I kept telling them it doesn't matter, it's not like a stock market where you gain interest. All the increased value was doing was increasing our property taxes and insurance. If we sell and move somewhere else, we're going to be paying the same inflated prices. Which we did, only other difference was we paid our realtor a lot more too. A house that costs 20k in realtor fees a few years ago now is going to run $35,000 or more.
I'd rather the housing market grow at a normal speed, than double in 3-5 years. I see zero advantage to it growing the way it did, even for homeowners. All it's doing is pricing new buyers out, and raising property taxes and insurance.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
yeah, my house in 2005 was $113K. It's now close to $300K. it's insane. my house is a starter. we just never left. lol. $300K as a starter, even in CDN funds, is insanity.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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HughFreakingDillon said:yeah, my house in 2005 was $113K. It's now close to $300K. it's insane. my house is a starter. we just never left. lol. $300K as a starter, even in CDN funds, is insanity.0
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Jeez I need to get out of Brooklyn. Over a million to buy something that needs to be gut renovated.0
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young adults, those most likely in the common first time home buyers category , tend not to vote in state and local “off year” elections. Good luck getting policies in place to help this housing crisis. Starter homes by me are around $700k usd.0
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mace1229 said:HughFreakingDillon said:yeah, my house in 2005 was $113K. It's now close to $300K. it's insane. my house is a starter. we just never left. lol. $300K as a starter, even in CDN funds, is insanity.0
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Lerxst1992 said:young adults, those most likely in the common first time home buyers category , tend not to vote in state and local “off year” elections. Good luck getting policies in place to help this housing crisis. Starter homes by me are around $700k usd.
Maybe first time buyers just can't afford to live where you do.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS
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cottagesteeze said:mace1229 said:HughFreakingDillon said:yeah, my house in 2005 was $113K. It's now close to $300K. it's insane. my house is a starter. we just never left. lol. $300K as a starter, even in CDN funds, is insanity.0
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mace1229 said:The Juggler said:mace1229 said:cottagesteeze said:mace1229 said:Gern Blansten said:mace1229 said:But paycheck to paycheck was just one point. Housing is crazy. Houses have doubled in 5 years, causing rent to go up as well. Interest rates have been way up in the last year. Inflation was way up. Cost of cars are way up. I read an article a few months ago that because more people can't afford new cars, the used market has gone way up and people are driving older cars much longer. Which makes repairs and maintenance more costly because auto shops are slammed try to keep older cars running longer than before. Good if you're a mechanic, bad if you're everyone else. It shouldn't be a surprise that more Americans are finding it harder to live on what they make compared to a few years ago.
Our economy ebbs and flows. Gas prices will decrease, food costs will decrease....and at the same time our economy will slow down. Then the GOP will scream about that. But again....they offer NO LEGISLATION to fix anything that they complain about.
That shortage in supply lead to people keeping their car longer, which also increased the cost of used car and maintenance, since, like you said, its a 10 day wait not instead of just 1.
With that shortage of new cars, the average price for a new car went up by 10k according to KBB.
I just disagree that this is a hot economy and everything is great financially. Cost is increasing a lot faster than wages and jobs.
A non-home owner trying to buy your first home is next to impossible right now. If you can afford it, you're paying triple the mortgage for someone who bought the same house 5 years ago. If you can't, you're paying a lot more in rent compared to a few years ago too. A lot of those people are struggling. Someone in finance or real estate who already owns a home, might not be.0 -
cottagesteeze said:Lerxst1992 said:young adults, those most likely in the common first time home buyers category , tend not to vote in state and local “off year” elections. Good luck getting policies in place to help this housing crisis. Starter homes by me are around $700k usd.
Maybe first time buyers just can't afford to live where you do.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS
We wished we could have purchased a house on the water, where we rented.
Wish in one hand and shit in the other.
We did what wise people do when it comes to wanting to live in a highly desired area.
Moved to where we could do this.
Edit- I also didn't blame the president.Post edited by F Me In The Brain onThe love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
mace1229 said:The Juggler said:mace1229 said:cottagesteeze said:mace1229 said:Gern Blansten said:mace1229 said:But paycheck to paycheck was just one point. Housing is crazy. Houses have doubled in 5 years, causing rent to go up as well. Interest rates have been way up in the last year. Inflation was way up. Cost of cars are way up. I read an article a few months ago that because more people can't afford new cars, the used market has gone way up and people are driving older cars much longer. Which makes repairs and maintenance more costly because auto shops are slammed try to keep older cars running longer than before. Good if you're a mechanic, bad if you're everyone else. It shouldn't be a surprise that more Americans are finding it harder to live on what they make compared to a few years ago.
Our economy ebbs and flows. Gas prices will decrease, food costs will decrease....and at the same time our economy will slow down. Then the GOP will scream about that. But again....they offer NO LEGISLATION to fix anything that they complain about.
That shortage in supply lead to people keeping their car longer, which also increased the cost of used car and maintenance, since, like you said, its a 10 day wait not instead of just 1.
With that shortage of new cars, the average price for a new car went up by 10k according to KBB.
I just disagree that this is a hot economy and everything is great financially. Cost is increasing a lot faster than wages and jobs.
A non-home owner trying to buy your first home is next to impossible right now. If you can afford it, you're paying triple the mortgage for someone who bought the same house 5 years ago. If you can't, you're paying a lot more in rent compared to a few years ago too. A lot of those people are struggling. Someone in finance or real estate who already owns a home, might not be.
But generally speaking, a hot economy consists of an unemployment rate between 4-6% and a GDP growing between 2 and 3%. Well unemployment is about as low as it's been in 50 years (3.8%) and the GDP just grew by 4.9%. That is a hot economy anyway you slice it.
We live a weird time. We need the economy to cool down before the fed will lower interest rates again. But reports like this suggest that people are still spending like crazy despite things costing more...which makes it more likely the fed will keep rates higher for a longer period of time. Next week is an important one with the fed meeting and with the October jobs report coming out.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-consumer-spending-beats-expectations-september-2023-10-27/US consumer spending exits third quarter on strong note; monthly core inflation rises
October 27, 202312:26 PM EDTUpdated 5 hours agoA woman carrying a shopping bag from Staud walks past people queuing for a pop-up shop in the SoHo neighborhood of New York City, U.S., September 21, 2023. REUTERS/Bing Guan/File Photo Acquire Licensing Rights
- Summary
- Consumer spending increases 0.7% in September
- Personal income gains 0.3%; saving rate falls to 3.4%
- Core PCE price index rises 0.3%; up 3.7% year-on-year
WASHINGTON, Oct 27 (Reuters) - U.S. consumer spending surged in September as households boosted purchases of motor vehicles and traveled, keeping spending on a higher growth path heading into the fourth quarter.
The stronger-than-expected increase in spending reported by the Commerce Department on Friday was accompanied by elevated monthly inflation readings, against the backdrop of higher costs for services like housing. Spending is, however, seen cooling off in early 2024 as excess savings accumulated during the pandemic start running out, leaving economists convinced the Federal Reserve is done raising interest rates.
Advertisement · Scroll to continueReport this adBut risks of a rate hike remain.
"U.S. consumers still had some gas left in the tank last month that risks carrying into the current quarter," said Sal Guatieri, a senior economist at BMO Capital Markets in Toronto.
"While we still expect spending and the economy to downshift sharply in the fourth quarter, the risk is that both will keep running hotter than the Fed needs to subdue still-stubborn services inflation."
Advertisement · Scroll to continueReport this adConsumer spending, which accounts for more than two-thirds of U.S. economic activity, accelerated 0.7% last month after an unrevised 0.4% rise in August, the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis reported. Economists polled by Reuters had forecast spending gaining 0.5%.
The increase in spending was spread across goods and services. Outlays on goods increased 0.7%, led by prescription medication, new light trucks, food and beverages as well as recreational goods and vehicles. Spending on services
Advertisement · Scroll to continueReport this adshot up 0.8%, boosted by international travel, housing and utilities, healthcare and airline transportation services.
The data was included in the advance gross domestic product report for the third quarter published on Thursday, which showed consumer spending accelerating sharply, contributing to the fastest pace of economic growth in nearly two years.
Adjusting for inflation, consumer spending rose a solid 0.4% in September after ticking up 0.1% in August, a strong hand-off from the April-June quarter that bodes well for consumption and overall economic growth in the fourth quarter.
Growth, however, is unlikely to match last quarter's blockbuster performance. Consumer tapped their savings and put away less money with the saving rate dropping to 3.4% from 4.0% in August.
Personal income rose 0.3% after gaining 0.4% in August. Income at the disposal of households after accounting for inflation and taxes dropped for a third straight month.
"That is not sustainable," said James Knightley, chief international economist at ING in New York. "Savings are finite and are being exhausted at a rapid rate, with various estimates suggesting that excess savings accrued during the pandemic could be exhausted in the first half of next year."
Excess savings are mostly concentrated among high-income households, according to economists, with low-income households believed to have long depleted their stash. Most people are turning on debt to fund purchases. Some of these people likely have student loans on which they resumed repayment this month, which could out them in a precarious financial position.
But not every economist sees rising credit card balances as a threat, arguing that consumers are still able to meet their debt obligations, thanks to a strong labor market. Wages increased 0.4% after advancing 0.5% in the prior month.
"U.S. households are healthy financially relative to past cycles," said Chris Low, chief economist at FHN Financial in New York. "Debt levels are low, savings are still pretty high and income is solid. There is nothing compelling in the data suggesting a spending slowdown is inevitable."
Stocks on Wall Street were trading higher. The dollar fell against a basket of currencies. U.S. Treasury prices were mixed.
WARMER MONTHLY INFLATION
Monthly inflation remained warm in September. The personal consumption expenditures (PCE) price index gained 0.4% after increasing by the same margin in August. Food prices climbed
0.3% and energy prices increased 1.7%.
In the 12 months through September, the PCE price index advanced 3.4%, matching August's rise.
Excluding the volatile food and energy components, the PCE price index rose 0.3%, after edging up 0.1% in August. The cost of housing services increased 0.5%.
Monthly inflation readings of 0.2% on a sustainable basis are needed to bring inflation back to the U.S. central bank's 2% target, according to economists. The so-called core PCE price index rose 3.7% on a year-on-year basis in September, the smallest gain since May 2021, after increasing 3.8% in August.
Stripping out housing, the core PCE price index rose by a mild 0.2%. The so-called super core, which is PCE services excluding energy and housing was stronger, increasing 0.4% after nudging up 0.1% in August. The super core PCE price index advanced 4.3% year-on-year in September.
The Fed tracks the PCE price indexes for monetary policy. Policymakers are watching the super core PCE price index to try and gauge their progress in combating inflation. The Fed is expected to leave interest rates unchanged next Wednesday as a recent surge in U.S. Treasury yields and stock market sell-off have tightened financial conditions.
Since March 2022, the Fed has raised its policy rate by 525 basis points to the current 5.25%-5.50% range.
"There is more work to be done to sustainably lower inflation towards the 2% target," said Pooja Sriram, an economist at Barclays in New York.
Post edited by The Juggler onwww.myspace.com0 -
I thought you were supposed to buy your house at the bottom of the market and not when the housing market is “hot?” Silly me.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Halifax2TheMax said:I thought you were supposed to buy your house at the bottom of the market and not when the housing market is “hot?” Silly me.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS
www.myspace.com0 -
Halifax2TheMax said:I thought you were supposed to buy your house at the bottom of the market and not when the housing market is “hot?” Silly me.
Post edited by F Me In The Brain onThe love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
In her letter this evening, Heather Cox Richardson does a fine job of revealing the disconnect were seeing in some of the posts here:
October 27, 2023
Oct 28An article this morning jumped out at me. Catherine Rampell of the Washington Post noted that the U.S. economy “looks remarkably good.” A recent stunning jobs report, showing that the economy continues to add jobs at record rates—more than 13.9 million since President Joe Biden took office—along with yesterday’s stunning report that U.S. economic growth grew at an annual pace of 4.9% in the third quarter of this year, puts the U.S. economy at the forefront of most of the world. And inflation is back in the range that the Federal Reserve prefers—it’s at 2.4%, close to the Fed’s target of 2%.
The U.S. is outperforming forecasts made even before the pandemic began for where the economy would be now, even as other countries are worse off.
And yet, Rampell notes, Americans are about as negative about the economy today as they were during the Great Recession after 2008, when mortgage foreclosures were forcing people out of their homes and unemployment rested at about 9%, more than twice what it is today. In contrast, consumers give high marks to the Trump years, when average growth before the pandemic was 2.5% and the U.S. added only about 6.4 million jobs.
There is a crucial divorce here between image and reality. Americans think our economy, currently the strongest in the world, is in poor shape. They mistakenly believe it was better under Trump.
That profound and measurable disjunction ought to make us sit up and take notice, especially as the Biden administration continues to try to make the economy responsive to ordinary Americans and the country continues to pay little attention. Today, for example, the White House announced an effort to turn the dual problems of empty office buildings and a shortage of affordable housing into a win-win. It announced a series of actions to convert vacant commercial properties to residential buildings. Their efforts are designed to create affordable, energy-efficient housing near public transportation and jobs.
(See Mickey's Heather post for the rest of the letter.)
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux said:In her letter this evening, Heather Cox Richardson does a fine job of revealing the disconnect were seeing in some of the posts here:
October 27, 2023
Oct 28An article this morning jumped out at me. Catherine Rampell of the Washington Post noted that the U.S. economy “looks remarkably good.” A recent stunning jobs report, showing that the economy continues to add jobs at record rates—more than 13.9 million since President Joe Biden took office—along with yesterday’s stunning report that U.S. economic growth grew at an annual pace of 4.9% in the third quarter of this year, puts the U.S. economy at the forefront of most of the world. And inflation is back in the range that the Federal Reserve prefers—it’s at 2.4%, close to the Fed’s target of 2%.
The U.S. is outperforming forecasts made even before the pandemic began for where the economy would be now, even as other countries are worse off.
And yet, Rampell notes, Americans are about as negative about the economy today as they were during the Great Recession after 2008, when mortgage foreclosures were forcing people out of their homes and unemployment rested at about 9%, more than twice what it is today. In contrast, consumers give high marks to the Trump years, when average growth before the pandemic was 2.5% and the U.S. added only about 6.4 million jobs.
There is a crucial divorce here between image and reality. Americans think our economy, currently the strongest in the world, is in poor shape. They mistakenly believe it was better under Trump.
That profound and measurable disjunction ought to make us sit up and take notice, especially as the Biden administration continues to try to make the economy responsive to ordinary Americans and the country continues to pay little attention. Today, for example, the White House announced an effort to turn the dual problems of empty office buildings and a shortage of affordable housing into a win-win. It announced a series of actions to convert vacant commercial properties to residential buildings. Their efforts are designed to create affordable, energy-efficient housing near public transportation and jobs.
(See Mickey's Heather post for the rest of the letter.)
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