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International Transgender Day of Visibility was established in 2009. Why should they move the day they celebrate because you find it arbitrary?cincybearcat said:
I was not offended by this easter/transgendered day thing. But why is the transgendered day not moved to a day in June? I mean if we are going to have a month...why not consolidate those days that are arbitrary?mrussel1 said:
Jesus Christ, why couldn't they just pick one day like the gays did on March 31st??Vitalogensia said:
I've done research on this, and it's complicated. Easter is known as a “moveable feast.” Instead of having a fixed date like Christmas, Easter occurs in accordance to a lunisolar calendar – one that describes both the solar time of year as well as moon phases. Easter is supposed to follow a full moon after the Spring equinox (between March 22nd and April 25th) and on a Sunday if you’re a Western Christian. Also, no one know when Jesus was actually born or died, but theThe First Council of Nicaea decided to separate computus (determine when Easter is) from Jewish tradition in AD 325. Due to the impending completion of Cyril of Alexandria’s 95-year Easter table, Dionysius Exiguus created his Easter tables in AD 525, setting the date of Easter from AD 532 to 626. (On top of that, Dionysius Exiguus created the use of “AD.”) Beda Venerabilis championed Dionysius Exiguus’s work, and continued his Easter cycle through AD 721. (o compliment Dionysius Exiguus’s use of AD, Beda Venerabilis also created “BC” to denote “Before Christ.”) Then you have to add in the Gregorian calendar being implemented in 1582, and leap days, as well as the countries/societies that adhered to the Julian calendar until relatively recently, like the 1700s.mrussel1 said:
Keep me honest, but I think Christmas is linked to the pagan calendar (solstice) but Easter is linked to the Jewish lunar calendar, which tells them when to celebrate Passover. And Passover is the same week as Good Friday. That's why the day moves.Go Beavers said:And when someone first hears how it’s determined which Sunday it’ll fall on, they give the “really?” response with that look on their face where they’re pondering the Pagan implications.
Although there is certainly something pagan about connecting it to the lunar cycle.Virginia Beach 2000; Pittsburgh 2000; Columbus 2003; D.C. 2003; Pittsburgh 2006; Virginia Beach 2008; Cleveland 2010; PJ20 2011; Pittsburgh 2013; Baltimore 2013; Charlottesville 2013; Charlotte 2013; Lincoln 2014; Moline 2014; St. Paul 2014; Greenville 2016; Hampton 2016; Lexington 2016; Wrigley 2016; Prague 2018; Krakow 2018; Berlin 2018; Fenway 2018; Camden 2022; St. Paul 2023; MSG 1 2024; Baltimore 2024; Raleigh 2025; Pittsburgh 20250 -
Next year Easter is on 4-20. That won't generate the outrage this did but it should lead to some amusement.
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You might say this whole Easter/Transgender Day thing maga blew up over the weekend is a tad......hmmmm.......what's the word I am looking for?
Oh right...
Disingenuous. Shocking.
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Try asking them what gender the Easter bunny is.The Juggler said:You might say this whole Easter/Transgender Day thing maga blew up over the weekend is a tad......hmmmm.......what's the word I am looking for?
Oh right...
Disingenuous. Shocking.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I just meant it would make sense in Pride month no?Vitalogensia said:
International Transgender Day of Visibility was established in 2009. Why should they move the day they celebrate because you find it arbitrary?cincybearcat said:
I was not offended by this easter/transgendered day thing. But why is the transgendered day not moved to a day in June? I mean if we are going to have a month...why not consolidate those days that are arbitrary?mrussel1 said:
Jesus Christ, why couldn't they just pick one day like the gays did on March 31st??Vitalogensia said:
I've done research on this, and it's complicated. Easter is known as a “moveable feast.” Instead of having a fixed date like Christmas, Easter occurs in accordance to a lunisolar calendar – one that describes both the solar time of year as well as moon phases. Easter is supposed to follow a full moon after the Spring equinox (between March 22nd and April 25th) and on a Sunday if you’re a Western Christian. Also, no one know when Jesus was actually born or died, but theThe First Council of Nicaea decided to separate computus (determine when Easter is) from Jewish tradition in AD 325. Due to the impending completion of Cyril of Alexandria’s 95-year Easter table, Dionysius Exiguus created his Easter tables in AD 525, setting the date of Easter from AD 532 to 626. (On top of that, Dionysius Exiguus created the use of “AD.”) Beda Venerabilis championed Dionysius Exiguus’s work, and continued his Easter cycle through AD 721. (o compliment Dionysius Exiguus’s use of AD, Beda Venerabilis also created “BC” to denote “Before Christ.”) Then you have to add in the Gregorian calendar being implemented in 1582, and leap days, as well as the countries/societies that adhered to the Julian calendar until relatively recently, like the 1700s.mrussel1 said:
Keep me honest, but I think Christmas is linked to the pagan calendar (solstice) but Easter is linked to the Jewish lunar calendar, which tells them when to celebrate Passover. And Passover is the same week as Good Friday. That's why the day moves.Go Beavers said:And when someone first hears how it’s determined which Sunday it’ll fall on, they give the “really?” response with that look on their face where they’re pondering the Pagan implications.
Although there is certainly something pagan about connecting it to the lunar cycle.hippiemom = goodness0 -
HahahahaOnWis97 said:Next year Easter is on 4-20. That won't generate the outrage this did but it should lead to some amusement.hippiemom = goodness0 -
I guess I should say I don't really care, I was just trying to have a conversation as it struck me. Since international it makes less sense to move it anyhow, I didn't even think about international vs national. And by arbitrary I just meant it was simply a selected day, unlike June 19th for juneteenth. Though I guess I don't know for sure, was March 31st picked due to a specific event?Vitalogensia said:
International Transgender Day of Visibility was established in 2009. Why should they move the day they celebrate because you find it arbitrary?cincybearcat said:
I was not offended by this easter/transgendered day thing. But why is the transgendered day not moved to a day in June? I mean if we are going to have a month...why not consolidate those days that are arbitrary?mrussel1 said:
Jesus Christ, why couldn't they just pick one day like the gays did on March 31st??Vitalogensia said:
I've done research on this, and it's complicated. Easter is known as a “moveable feast.” Instead of having a fixed date like Christmas, Easter occurs in accordance to a lunisolar calendar – one that describes both the solar time of year as well as moon phases. Easter is supposed to follow a full moon after the Spring equinox (between March 22nd and April 25th) and on a Sunday if you’re a Western Christian. Also, no one know when Jesus was actually born or died, but theThe First Council of Nicaea decided to separate computus (determine when Easter is) from Jewish tradition in AD 325. Due to the impending completion of Cyril of Alexandria’s 95-year Easter table, Dionysius Exiguus created his Easter tables in AD 525, setting the date of Easter from AD 532 to 626. (On top of that, Dionysius Exiguus created the use of “AD.”) Beda Venerabilis championed Dionysius Exiguus’s work, and continued his Easter cycle through AD 721. (o compliment Dionysius Exiguus’s use of AD, Beda Venerabilis also created “BC” to denote “Before Christ.”) Then you have to add in the Gregorian calendar being implemented in 1582, and leap days, as well as the countries/societies that adhered to the Julian calendar until relatively recently, like the 1700s.mrussel1 said:
Keep me honest, but I think Christmas is linked to the pagan calendar (solstice) but Easter is linked to the Jewish lunar calendar, which tells them when to celebrate Passover. And Passover is the same week as Good Friday. That's why the day moves.Go Beavers said:And when someone first hears how it’s determined which Sunday it’ll fall on, they give the “really?” response with that look on their face where they’re pondering the Pagan implications.
Although there is certainly something pagan about connecting it to the lunar cycle.hippiemom = goodness0 -
I don't know either. But I think the main point is that it's been the 31st for 15 years or something. It just so happens to fall on Easter this year, giving Fox something to cry about for 3 or 4 days. As if it actually harms Christians and they couldn't celebrate Easter exactly as they planned.cincybearcat said:
I guess I should say I don't really care, I was just trying to have a conversation as it struck me. Since international it makes less sense to move it anyhow, I didn't even think about international vs national. And by arbitrary I just meant it was simply a selected day, unlike June 19th for juneteenth. Though I guess I don't know for sure, was March 31st picked due to a specific event?Vitalogensia said:
International Transgender Day of Visibility was established in 2009. Why should they move the day they celebrate because you find it arbitrary?cincybearcat said:
I was not offended by this easter/transgendered day thing. But why is the transgendered day not moved to a day in June? I mean if we are going to have a month...why not consolidate those days that are arbitrary?mrussel1 said:
Jesus Christ, why couldn't they just pick one day like the gays did on March 31st??Vitalogensia said:
I've done research on this, and it's complicated. Easter is known as a “moveable feast.” Instead of having a fixed date like Christmas, Easter occurs in accordance to a lunisolar calendar – one that describes both the solar time of year as well as moon phases. Easter is supposed to follow a full moon after the Spring equinox (between March 22nd and April 25th) and on a Sunday if you’re a Western Christian. Also, no one know when Jesus was actually born or died, but theThe First Council of Nicaea decided to separate computus (determine when Easter is) from Jewish tradition in AD 325. Due to the impending completion of Cyril of Alexandria’s 95-year Easter table, Dionysius Exiguus created his Easter tables in AD 525, setting the date of Easter from AD 532 to 626. (On top of that, Dionysius Exiguus created the use of “AD.”) Beda Venerabilis championed Dionysius Exiguus’s work, and continued his Easter cycle through AD 721. (o compliment Dionysius Exiguus’s use of AD, Beda Venerabilis also created “BC” to denote “Before Christ.”) Then you have to add in the Gregorian calendar being implemented in 1582, and leap days, as well as the countries/societies that adhered to the Julian calendar until relatively recently, like the 1700s.mrussel1 said:
Keep me honest, but I think Christmas is linked to the pagan calendar (solstice) but Easter is linked to the Jewish lunar calendar, which tells them when to celebrate Passover. And Passover is the same week as Good Friday. That's why the day moves.Go Beavers said:And when someone first hears how it’s determined which Sunday it’ll fall on, they give the “really?” response with that look on their face where they’re pondering the Pagan implications.
Although there is certainly something pagan about connecting it to the lunar cycle.0 -
Yup I get that for sure. Interesting that June has been pride month since 1970 (I had no idea it was that long ago). I am surprised they didn;t pick a day in June then to begin with, probably the international aspect.mrussel1 said:
I don't know either. But I think the main point is that it's been the 31st for 15 years or something. It just so happens to fall on Easter this year, giving Fox something to cry about for 3 or 4 days. As if it actually harms Christians and they couldn't celebrate Easter exactly as they planned.cincybearcat said:
I guess I should say I don't really care, I was just trying to have a conversation as it struck me. Since international it makes less sense to move it anyhow, I didn't even think about international vs national. And by arbitrary I just meant it was simply a selected day, unlike June 19th for juneteenth. Though I guess I don't know for sure, was March 31st picked due to a specific event?Vitalogensia said:
International Transgender Day of Visibility was established in 2009. Why should they move the day they celebrate because you find it arbitrary?cincybearcat said:
I was not offended by this easter/transgendered day thing. But why is the transgendered day not moved to a day in June? I mean if we are going to have a month...why not consolidate those days that are arbitrary?mrussel1 said:
Jesus Christ, why couldn't they just pick one day like the gays did on March 31st??Vitalogensia said:
I've done research on this, and it's complicated. Easter is known as a “moveable feast.” Instead of having a fixed date like Christmas, Easter occurs in accordance to a lunisolar calendar – one that describes both the solar time of year as well as moon phases. Easter is supposed to follow a full moon after the Spring equinox (between March 22nd and April 25th) and on a Sunday if you’re a Western Christian. Also, no one know when Jesus was actually born or died, but theThe First Council of Nicaea decided to separate computus (determine when Easter is) from Jewish tradition in AD 325. Due to the impending completion of Cyril of Alexandria’s 95-year Easter table, Dionysius Exiguus created his Easter tables in AD 525, setting the date of Easter from AD 532 to 626. (On top of that, Dionysius Exiguus created the use of “AD.”) Beda Venerabilis championed Dionysius Exiguus’s work, and continued his Easter cycle through AD 721. (o compliment Dionysius Exiguus’s use of AD, Beda Venerabilis also created “BC” to denote “Before Christ.”) Then you have to add in the Gregorian calendar being implemented in 1582, and leap days, as well as the countries/societies that adhered to the Julian calendar until relatively recently, like the 1700s.mrussel1 said:
Keep me honest, but I think Christmas is linked to the pagan calendar (solstice) but Easter is linked to the Jewish lunar calendar, which tells them when to celebrate Passover. And Passover is the same week as Good Friday. That's why the day moves.Go Beavers said:And when someone first hears how it’s determined which Sunday it’ll fall on, they give the “really?” response with that look on their face where they’re pondering the Pagan implications.
Although there is certainly something pagan about connecting it to the lunar cycle.hippiemom = goodness0 -
I could only find this statement regarding why March 31st was chosen, so I'm not sure of the accuracy: "[Rachel] Crandall-Crocker selected the day at the end of March to give it space from the day of remembrance [which is Transgender Day of Remembrance, on November 20th] and Pride Month in June, which celebrates all types of LGBTQ+ people."
Transgender Day of Visibility: When was it first celebrated? | wcnc.com
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Interesting. Thanks. So chosen specifically to have space between it and pride month.Vitalogensia said:I could only find this statement regarding why March 31st was chosen, so I'm not sure of the accuracy: "[Rachel] Crandall-Crocker selected the day at the end of March to give it space from the day of remembrance [which is Transgender Day of Remembrance, on November 20th] and Pride Month in June, which celebrates all types of LGBTQ+ people."
Transgender Day of Visibility: When was it first celebrated? | wcnc.comhippiemom = goodness0 -
Or more specifically, to piss off conservativescincybearcat said:
Interesting. Thanks. So chosen specifically to have space between it and pride month.Vitalogensia said:I could only find this statement regarding why March 31st was chosen, so I'm not sure of the accuracy: "[Rachel] Crandall-Crocker selected the day at the end of March to give it space from the day of remembrance [which is Transgender Day of Remembrance, on November 20th] and Pride Month in June, which celebrates all types of LGBTQ+ people."
Transgender Day of Visibility: When was it first celebrated? | wcnc.com0 -
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
cue the "jesus stoned to the bejesus" memes...OnWis97 said:Next year Easter is on 4-20. That won't generate the outrage this did but it should lead to some amusement."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
sadly, i think the lgbtq+ community pisses off conservatives simply by being alive.mrussel1 said:
Or more specifically, to piss off conservativescincybearcat said:
Interesting. Thanks. So chosen specifically to have space between it and pride month.Vitalogensia said:I could only find this statement regarding why March 31st was chosen, so I'm not sure of the accuracy: "[Rachel] Crandall-Crocker selected the day at the end of March to give it space from the day of remembrance [which is Transgender Day of Remembrance, on November 20th] and Pride Month in June, which celebrates all types of LGBTQ+ people."
Transgender Day of Visibility: When was it first celebrated? | wcnc.com"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Not just “conservatives.” Most “religious” folks.gimmesometruth27 said:
sadly, i think the lgbtq+ community pisses off conservatives simply by being alive.mrussel1 said:
Or more specifically, to piss off conservativescincybearcat said:
Interesting. Thanks. So chosen specifically to have space between it and pride month.Vitalogensia said:I could only find this statement regarding why March 31st was chosen, so I'm not sure of the accuracy: "[Rachel] Crandall-Crocker selected the day at the end of March to give it space from the day of remembrance [which is Transgender Day of Remembrance, on November 20th] and Pride Month in June, which celebrates all types of LGBTQ+ people."
Transgender Day of Visibility: When was it first celebrated? | wcnc.com09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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i'd say the majority of conservatives are probably religious folks. you don't hear too many conservatives telling you god isn't real.Halifax2TheMax said:
Not just “conservatives.” Most “religious” folks.gimmesometruth27 said:
sadly, i think the lgbtq+ community pisses off conservatives simply by being alive.mrussel1 said:
Or more specifically, to piss off conservativescincybearcat said:
Interesting. Thanks. So chosen specifically to have space between it and pride month.Vitalogensia said:I could only find this statement regarding why March 31st was chosen, so I'm not sure of the accuracy: "[Rachel] Crandall-Crocker selected the day at the end of March to give it space from the day of remembrance [which is Transgender Day of Remembrance, on November 20th] and Pride Month in June, which celebrates all types of LGBTQ+ people."
Transgender Day of Visibility: When was it first celebrated? | wcnc.com"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140
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