It's not The Worst Hard Time.

brianlux

Do I like to bitch about things?  Oh boy, do I ever!  But I was thinking about all this stuff today (including pandemic, fires, social unrest, hurricanes, mega-fires and 45), and it occurred to me that maybe it would help if we stopped and thought about how there have been worse hard times as in:  those who were subjected to Attila the Hun, Aztecs at the time of Cortés , the  indigenous people at the time of continental  conquest by Europeans, Jewish or gay, et al, at the time of Hitler, anybody during the Spanish flu, Midwestern during the dust bowl, most people during the Great Depression, etc., etc., maybe we could find a better way through it.  (I will step out on a limb as a white guy and suggest that this is not even the worst hard time if you are African American.  I'm open to being proven wrong on that, but I'm pretty sure previous centuries were worse, some WAY worse.)

This time sucks, but it's not the worst bad time.   End results of bad times have totally revolved around how the people at the time and place responded.  Historically, the results run the gamut.

Give us your best plan for creating the best outcome in getting past today's woes.

josevolution

Yeah there were worst times no doubt! But in my 60 years in this world 50 of them here in America this is the worst I’ve felt about the discourse! And there’s plenty of fighting in the streets still to come..

Bentleyspop

josevolution said:

Yeah there were worst times no doubt! But in my 60 years in this world 50 of them here in America this is the worst I’ve felt about the discourse! And there’s plenty of fighting in the streets still to come..

I agree with both of you. There were some bad times over history. But right now is the worst of my lifetime. I look forward to a regime change November 3rd but I don't  believe it will be smooth and could get ugly.
I love this country but these selfish money grabbing racist assholes have really fucked it up over the last 4 years.
Want to piss of republicans? VOTE!!

josevolution

Bentleyspop said:

josevolution said:

Yeah there were worst times no doubt! But in my 60 years in this world 50 of them here in America this is the worst I’ve felt about the discourse! And there’s plenty of fighting in the streets still to come..

I agree with both of you. There were some bad times over history. But right now is the worst of my lifetime. I look forward to a regime change November 3rd but I don't  believe it will be smooth and could get ugly.
I love this country but these selfish money grabbing racist assholes have really fucked it up over the last 4 years.
Want to piss of republicans? VOTE!!

No doubt about it but I’m really not counting on the good of humans to vote this POS out of office! I believe there’s more racist Americans that are willing to keep him in power as long as it’s not a democrat or a woman or gay forget Black president Obama was like a comet! 

mace1229

You can ask Browns fans how they deal with it every year.

josevolution

I don’t give two shits about the browns football team is that who you mean? 

mace1229

It was a joke. Brian asked how can we deal with such a hard time. They would know. Didn’t mean for anyone to take it personally.

josevolution

mace1229 said:

It was a joke. Brian asked how can we deal with such a hard time. They would know. Didn’t mean for anyone to take it personally.

lol sorry I didn’t realize it was that my bad..

brianlux

mace1229 said:

You can ask Browns fans how they deal with it every year.

One thing I'll say for the Browns:  their stadium looks awesome at night.  My wife and I drove by it one night about 14 years ago.  It looked so cool!

***************************************

As for this being the worst time for most of us- that's probably true.  If my folks were still alive, they would say, "No, we have been through worse times."  But yes, sadly, for most of us, these are probably the worst.

But two points I wanted to make is that many, many people have been through much worse. 

One is, who here is experiencing/ has experienced any of these?:

-Starvation

-Genocide of your people

-Bombing of your city

-Disease that is killing people where you live at the rate of the Black Death (plague)

-Homelessness

-Racial profiling to the point of fearing for your life

Probably very few here have experienced any of that. 

And my other point is that we might want to look at history and how people who did live through these things deal with them.  Many time in history, people have risen above their undesirable circumstances and created a better life for themselves.  The did this through smart planning, wise leadership, and hard work.   Some of us have done the work and are still doing it.  But this is somewhat a generational thing.  My parent's G.I. generation kicked ass.  Today's younger generation are letting their asses get kicked.  We must decide which fate we choose. 

hedonist

You know my dad’s history as I do yours. What my father went through before and during WWII - what he survived - took, I believe, fortitude, sacrifice and the hope that his efforts made a difference (they did). 

As bad as things have gotten, personally, I’ve tried to look at others who have it worse, so much worse. It helps to put things in perspective, but it ultimately comes down to me...how I deal with it. 

Can’t run, can’t hide, just have to live with the present reality best we can and try, again, to effect some positive change while we do it. 

brianlux

hedonist said:

You know my dad’s history as I do yours. What my father went through before and during WWII - what he survived - took, I believe, fortitude, sacrifice and the hope that his efforts made a difference (they did). 

As bad as things have gotten, personally, I’ve tried to look at others who have it worse, so much worse. It helps to put things in perspective, but it ultimately comes down to me...how I deal with it. 

Can’t run, can’t hide, just have to live with the present reality best we can and try, again, to effect some positive change while we do it. 

I can't even imagine what it was like to go through what our dad's did in WWII let alone before that as kids during the depression.  And it's just through sheer dumb luck that I didn't have to go through the hell of fighting in Vietnam (in that much less noble war).  Thinking about that really puts things into perspective.

mace1229

This is far from the worst in my opinion.
Im the first generation who hasn’t had to worry about being drafted into a big war. My dad is a Vietnam bet, my grandpa WWII, the generation before him WWI and so on. That alone is worth living in this time.
I also believe race relations are better than my parents’ generation. They went to school when segregation was open and common. In the 80s when I grew up calling a kid “fag” was normal and no one really cared back then. People lived in the closet their whole lives out of fear. I remember Ellen saying she thought she was going to lose her job coming out.
Its not perfect, but we’ve made progress. I think it seems bad because more people care and more people are aware. Smart phones have only been common for about 10 years, so we’re really only now seeing this daily footage of things.
And yes, there’s a pandemic. It’s pretty bad. But a disease that was a death sentence 20 years ago are now easily treated. Pensions and social security is only financial in trouble because people are living much longer than before.
We live in a time where there is less fear for being gay or trans than ever before. Not that it doesn’t exist, but it’s less. I’m the first generation that will never see a draft to go to war. We can treat cancer and heart disease and countless other health issues like never before. Mental health is less of a stigma and people and openly get help like never before. If I was born even years earlier I’d probably be legally blind, but I had a new surgery that could help my sight about 20 years ago. So many things to list.
None of it is perfect, but it really isn’t that bad of a time to be alive compared to what my ancestors went through.

brianlux

mace1229 said:

This is far from the worst in my opinion.
Im the first generation who hasn’t had to worry about being drafted into a big war. My dad is a Vietnam bet, my grandpa WWII, the generation before him WWI and so on. That alone is worth living in this time.
I also believe race relations are better than my parents’ generation. They went to school when segregation was open and common. In the 80s when I grew up calling a kid “fag” was normal and no one really cared back then. People lived in the closet their whole lives out of fear. I remember Ellen saying she thought she was going to lose her job coming out.
Its not perfect, but we’ve made progress. I think it seems bad because more people care and more people are aware. Smart phones have only been common for about 10 years, so we’re really only now seeing this daily footage of things.
And yes, there’s a pandemic. It’s pretty bad. But a disease that was a death sentence 20 years ago are now easily treated. Pensions and social security is only financial in trouble because people are living much longer than before.
We live in a time where there is less fear for being gay or trans than ever before. Not that it doesn’t exist, but it’s less. I’m the first generation that will never see a draft to go to war. We can treat cancer and heart disease and countless other health issues like never before. Mental health is less of a stigma and people and openly get help like never before. If I was born even years earlier I’d probably be legally blind, but I had a new surgery that could help my sight about 20 years ago. So many things to list.
None of it is perfect, but it really isn’t that bad of a time to be alive compared to what my ancestors went through.

Good points all around, Mace.

HughFreakingDillon

i think part of the hysteria surrounding what's going on today is that many in the newest generation are too far removed from the horrors of the early to mid 20th century. every generation prior either heard stories from their parents or grandparents, lived it themselves, or lived with someone who was so traumatized by whatever happened to them that they experienced it second hand. 

now, people are so far removed from anything like this, it's all brand new and fucking frightening. it's hard for them to relate. 

i know the newest generation gets criticized heavily for their supposed selfishness and inability to understand these past horrors, but they are a product of their upbringing and their environment. 

plus, as someone else said, it's all on video now. before people just heard about an incident on the news. rodney king was the first real visual people had with these things. now there's a rodney king type video every other day on social media. it's got to be traumatizing for some and desensitizing for others. 

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

i think part of the hysteria surrounding what's going on today is that many in the newest generation are too far removed from the horrors of the early to mid 20th century. every generation prior either heard stories from their parents or grandparents, lived it themselves, or lived with someone who was so traumatized by whatever happened to them that they experienced it second hand. 

now, people are so far removed from anything like this, it's all brand new and fucking frightening. it's hard for them to relate. 

i know the newest generation gets criticized heavily for their supposed selfishness and inability to understand these past horrors, but they are a product of their upbringing and their environment. 

plus, as someone else said, it's all on video now. before people just heard about an incident on the news. rodney king was the first real visual people had with these things. now there's a rodney king type video every other day on social media. it's got to be traumatizing for some and desensitizing for others. 

These are excellent points/ observations.

I was thinking about all this and my wife said that a friend of hers said she feels like this is the "end times".   As I said at the beginning here, I believe there have been worse times for many people throughout history.  But these are hard times, for sure. 

At this point, I think we are in the midst of a major wake-up call.  Without some strong leadership, good organization, specific goals, and hard work, I think we may well enter the worst hard time of all.  If we do not answer the wake-up call with the intelligent and diligent action, we may well find ourselves in a much harder position.  Will we these huge brains Mother Nature gave us and find our way back to a better place, or will we squander the moment and go down in history as a period in time where we totally blew it?

HughFreakingDillon

as an aside, find myself continuously wary of using the term "hysteria", as I know it's steeped in misogyny. my apologies if this bothers any of the females here. 

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i think part of the hysteria surrounding what's going on today is that many in the newest generation are too far removed from the horrors of the early to mid 20th century. every generation prior either heard stories from their parents or grandparents, lived it themselves, or lived with someone who was so traumatized by whatever happened to them that they experienced it second hand. 

now, people are so far removed from anything like this, it's all brand new and fucking frightening. it's hard for them to relate. 

i know the newest generation gets criticized heavily for their supposed selfishness and inability to understand these past horrors, but they are a product of their upbringing and their environment. 

plus, as someone else said, it's all on video now. before people just heard about an incident on the news. rodney king was the first real visual people had with these things. now there's a rodney king type video every other day on social media. it's got to be traumatizing for some and desensitizing for others. 

These are excellent points/ observations.

I was thinking about all this and my wife said that a friend of hers said she feels like this is the "end times".   As I said at the beginning here, I believe there have been worse times for many people throughout history.  But these are hard times, for sure. 

At this point, I think we are in the midst of a major wake-up call.  Without some strong leadership, good organization, specific goals, and hard work, I think we may well enter the worst hard time of all.  If we do not answer the wake-up call with the intelligent and diligent action, we may well find ourselves in a much harder position.  Will we these huge brains Mother Nature gave us and find our way back to a better place, or will we squander the moment and go down in history as a period in time where we totally blew it?

i'll be honest with ya brian. i don't think covid is the end times. i think the climate crisis is far worse. that is irreversible, as you well know. covid kills an infinitesimal amount of the populace. this is honestly something our race can survive, as sucky as it is. unless a new crazy fucking strain eventually emerges, killing most of us. 

and the climate crisis will never get resolved as long as the US remains on the path its on. let's be honest: if the US and china don't start taking this seriously, and i don't think they will, we're fucked. 

and it's not just republicans. i don't think democrats can do any substantial change in the time frame needed. and i honestly don't think they even care to. at least republicans are honest about it. "we don't give a fuck/it's not real". democrats pay lip service and make incremental changes that amount to nearly zero. canada is no different, just so we're clear. everyone talks a big game then does not even close to what is needed. 

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i think part of the hysteria surrounding what's going on today is that many in the newest generation are too far removed from the horrors of the early to mid 20th century. every generation prior either heard stories from their parents or grandparents, lived it themselves, or lived with someone who was so traumatized by whatever happened to them that they experienced it second hand. 

now, people are so far removed from anything like this, it's all brand new and fucking frightening. it's hard for them to relate. 

i know the newest generation gets criticized heavily for their supposed selfishness and inability to understand these past horrors, but they are a product of their upbringing and their environment. 

plus, as someone else said, it's all on video now. before people just heard about an incident on the news. rodney king was the first real visual people had with these things. now there's a rodney king type video every other day on social media. it's got to be traumatizing for some and desensitizing for others. 

These are excellent points/ observations.

I was thinking about all this and my wife said that a friend of hers said she feels like this is the "end times".   As I said at the beginning here, I believe there have been worse times for many people throughout history.  But these are hard times, for sure. 

At this point, I think we are in the midst of a major wake-up call.  Without some strong leadership, good organization, specific goals, and hard work, I think we may well enter the worst hard time of all.  If we do not answer the wake-up call with the intelligent and diligent action, we may well find ourselves in a much harder position.  Will we these huge brains Mother Nature gave us and find our way back to a better place, or will we squander the moment and go down in history as a period in time where we totally blew it?

i'll be honest with ya brian. i don't think covid is the end times. i think the climate crisis is far worse. that is irreversible, as you well know. covid kills an infinitesimal amount of the populace. this is honestly something our race can survive, as sucky as it is. unless a new crazy fucking strain eventually emerges, killing most of us. 

and the climate crisis will never get resolved as long as the US remains on the path its on. let's be honest: if the US and china don't start taking this seriously, and i don't think they will, we're fucked. 

and it's not just republicans. i don't think democrats can do any substantial change in the time frame needed. and i honestly don't think they even care to. at least republicans are honest about it. "we don't give a fuck/it's not real". democrats pay lip service and make incremental changes that amount to nearly zero. canada is no different, just so we're clear. everyone talks a big game then does not even close to what is needed. 

I totally agree, my friend, climate change is our biggest challenge.  Future generations will have a lot on their hands dealing with this.    The planet is a self-healing organism and will very likely make corrections over time.   But of course, Earth's time is far greater than our.  A millennium is but a second in time to the earth.   We and our kids and our kid's kids will not see the end of climate change's impact. The best we can do at this point is reduce the damage.

I hope some day people will work together on this and not see it as a partisan issue.  As you imply, no one is doing enough at this point.