A new era of censoriousness?

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,414
    OnWis97 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    i'm so sick and tired of this. the labeling has gotten out of control. joe rogan is a racist and anti-trans. jk rowling is anti-trans. bryan adams is a racist. justin trudeau is racist. roseanne is a racist. everything is fucking cancelled. 

    look, some shit needs to be tossed into the dust bin. but public discourse without measured and respectful response isn't one of them. 

    joe rogan think it's unfair that trans women get to compete in sports against cis women. anti trans? ridiculous. it's biology. supported by the results in most instances, i might add. "i was always a woman" isn't a viable defense. make a division for trans athletes. boom. solved. 

    bryan adams was mad that his concert tour was cancelled because of wet markets. people called him racist against chinese customs and people. the guy's a fucking vegetarian and never mentioned china or chinese people. he's just mad his concerts got cancelled and thinks the open slaughter and consumption of animals is disgusting. 

    trudeau wore black face before anyone knew it was racist. trudeau haters want him to resign. had andrew sheer done it, they would have explained it away, just like people have accused me of doing with trudeau. 

    rowling made some comment about the usage of the word "people" in reference to those who menstruate. apparently, this was transphobic because it isn't just women who menstruate. however, she was trying to keep the light on the fact that women all around the world actually fucking die because of that. but nope. TRANSPHOBIC. 

    roseanne made a fucking mistake on twitter and loses her job and probably millions because of one fucking tweet. she said she was on ambien or some shit. no one believes her. you never said anything stupid when drunk or high?

    but we are so polarized into sides and teams now, everyone gets labelled with something as a point against that team. 

    public discourse is fucking dead. 

    I remember Joe Rogan from the underrated sitcom "News Radio." If not for the thread on him here I would not even know he was a controversial figure.

    That said, I don't think it's as simple as all of these people deserve passes just because we want to make sure not to be woke, PC, or "cancellers."  So I'll take take them one-by-one and try to find some nuance.

    joe rogan: I only know the "controversy" from the above post.  And as someone who tries to be all of these terrible things, I admit sports is a tricky one.  Not know the context, tone, etc., it sounds like there was some un-needed cancelling because athletics is a very tricky thing when it comes to gender ID. 

    Bryan Adams: First, Bryan Adams is the guy who, when David Duke used his song at a rally in the 1980s, got so frustrated he pulled his records out of the State of Louisiana.  Second, what he said wasn't racist.  So, yeah, I suppose he received scrutiny he did not need to.  Didn't really take away "discourse" though, and I had to google this just to remind myself and it took a long time to find.  I don't think he's been cancelled.

    Trudeau: Tough one. He's not that old. I'm 46 and don't remember any time when people didn't think blackface was racist.  When the leader of the country is shown to have done that, I don't have a problem with having to answer questions.  I'm not really sure what the outcome should be, though.

    JK Rowling:  Has she been "cancelled?"  A lot of people are upset with her and I suppose some may boycott her next book but am I supposed to be upset with that?  I still won't go to Chick-Fil-A because they gave money to Focus on the Family.  Am I cancelling them?  Do I have an obligation to go there?  She's probably the one on this list I feel least bad for because she seems to be on a bit of a crusade, making unsolicited comments. She deserves criticism. 

    Roseanne: Was this the tweet with her dressed as Hitler?  She's gone off the deep end and is either a hard-core white nationalist or is trying too hard to make some other point.  I don't feel that bad for her either.

    Jussie Smollett ruined his career and was essentially cancelled. Is that equally unfair?

    Anyway, if I'm all over the map, good.  That's the intent.  There's so much nuance here that it cannot be one size fits all.  And even though I agree with you on Rogan, Adams (though don't agree that he was cancelled) and am unsure what to think about Trudeau, what I'm inferring here is "never give into the liberal mob," which is why I ask whether Smollett should be cancelled.  Or Kaepernick. Or the Dixie Chicks.

    as happens often with me, i wasn't clear. lol. i wasn't trying to say all of these people have been cancelled. only roseanne has. but everyone has had the scarlet letter placed on them in the form of the label of being a (insert here)-phobe/ist. and i'm sick of it. 

    jussie smollet got what he deserved. faking a crime to get attention to the movement is not tolerable. 

    i'm also 46. i had no clue until recently that blackface was racist. to me it was part of the costume; if you are dressing up as a mr t, you wore black makeup. if a black person wanted to dress up as shirley temple, go ahead and wear whiteface. that's all it was to me. a costume piece. i never did it, but that was probably just more out of laziness than anything else. i did not know the history of it. i believe trudeau didn't either. i am also getting a little tired of people saying "how could you not know?". that's not an answerable question. you know when you are told. there was no interent back then. costumes sometimes WERE SOLD with black makeup, were they not?

    no, rowling hasn't been cancelled. that's not the point. the point is she's been labelled anti-trans, which is, in my opinion, bullshit. especially if you read her response to the backlash.she's feminist, which, apparently, you can't be at the same time as being pro-trans.  

    i don't think sports is a tricky thing whatsoever when it comes to gender ID. you compete with others in the same biological sex category you were born with. or don't play. that simple. if mike tyson started identifying as a woman just so he could be the first two-gender boxing champion, there would be outrage. why not the same for track and field sports, mma, etc? if a trans woman wants to play darts against cis women, or chess, fine and dandy. anything that is more physical than mental or skillful? hard nope from me. 

    why would we cancel kaepernick? or the dixie chicks? i don't personally find either them did anything remotely controversial. the chicks was a name and nothing more. kaepernick was exercising his right to protest peacefully. lady A has some answering to do, though, with how they are suing a black woman named Lady A for the rights to the name, even though she's been using it for 20 years. come on. "we're changing our name so it's no longer racist, but now we're going to sue a black woman for the rights to that name". how fucking tone deaf is that. 

    roseanne's issue was this: Barr appeared to take aim late Monday at Valerie Jarrett, a former adviser to President Barack Obama, in a tweet that identified the administration official by her initials: “muslim brotherhood & planet of the apes had a baby=vj.” was it disgusting? absolutely. was it career defining? i honestly can't answer that. but i just hate how these networks and big corporations bow down to what the right calls the "mob" instead of maybe doing an investigation? in today's age, there is no trial. there is no investigation. just an immediate public hanging and then we move on. 
    They were cancelled. Much of country radio stopped playing the Dixie Chicks.  I guess they still have a career, unlike Roseanne but I think the main difference there is that it's easier to overcome in music (if you're well-established) in that individuals can still consume your art.  Harder for Roseanne if a TV channel won't even put her on TV.

    Kaepernick lost his career over it.*  The NFL gave into the pressure of it's primarily white-Nationalist fan base.  It was a mob (a different one) and he was cancelled.  He's found other ways around it because it turns out standing up for social justice gets at least a bit more sympathy than being racist.  I'm not really sure what should happen with someone like Roseanne.  But I can't weep for her. 

    All this said, I don't necessarily disagree with your point as much as it might seem.  There certainly are missed opportunities for discourse out of people like Kaepernick and Rowling. (Not so much Roseanne).

    *oh god, are we going to have to have a debate over how good he was...it's not the point.

    no, haha, i won't get into the whole kaep was good enough debate. but i don't consider him cancelled, nor the chicks, they both still have careers. kaep turned his situation into a massive deal with nike. to me that's not being cancelled. being cancelled to me is universal, not just one side of the debate. 

    Well then I don't think any of your examples, except maybe Roseanne were cancelled...then again, I think I took this too far into that term. But in any case Bryan Adams, Rogan, Rowling, and Trudeau still have careers.  So if we're talking "shutting down" then Kaep and the Chicks qualify and are every bit as much a part of this as the others.
    correct, and i already stated as such, that only one truly cancelled was roseanne, the rest were just labelled. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,414
    hedonist said:
    What exactly is “cancelling someone“? 

    All these terms!
    basically it means a person loses their status or job or both as a result of saying and or doing something that the social "mob" deems unacceptable. in some cases it's warranted, in many or most, not so much. in my opinion. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 21,647
    hedonist said:
    What exactly is “cancelling someone“? 

    All these terms!
    basically it means a person loses their status or job or both as a result of saying and or doing something that the social "mob" deems unacceptable. in some cases it's warranted, in many or most, not so much. in my opinion. 
    Got it. No wonder many either back-pedal or walk on eggshells. 
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,570
    I’ll laugh at myself here.  I wasn’t familiar with the word “censorious(ness).”  I wanna thought it was just an amusing way to say “censor people.  Turns out it’s a word!
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,414
    hedonist said:
    hedonist said:
    What exactly is “cancelling someone“? 

    All these terms!
    basically it means a person loses their status or job or both as a result of saying and or doing something that the social "mob" deems unacceptable. in some cases it's warranted, in many or most, not so much. in my opinion. 
    Got it. No wonder many either back-pedal or walk on eggshells. 
    just today seth rogen is being skewered for his comments on israel and their illegitimacy as a nation (and he's jewish). 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
  • static111static111 Posts: 959
    OnWis97 said:
    I’ll laugh at myself here.  I wasn’t familiar with the word “censorious(ness).”  I wanna thought it was just an amusing way to say “censor people.  Turns out it’s a word!
    That’s where my confusion was as well.  Blux taught us a new word!
  • static111static111 Posts: 959
    hedonist said:
    hedonist said:
    What exactly is “cancelling someone“? 

    All these terms!
    basically it means a person loses their status or job or both as a result of saying and or doing something that the social "mob" deems unacceptable. in some cases it's warranted, in many or most, not so much. in my opinion. 
    Got it. No wonder many either back-pedal or walk on eggshells. 
    just today seth rogen is being skewered for his comments on israel and their illegitimacy as a nation (and he's jewish). 
    The whole not being allowed to criticize the nation of Israel’s policies thing is beyond my level of understanding.  
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,414
    static111 said:
    hedonist said:
    hedonist said:
    What exactly is “cancelling someone“? 

    All these terms!
    basically it means a person loses their status or job or both as a result of saying and or doing something that the social "mob" deems unacceptable. in some cases it's warranted, in many or most, not so much. in my opinion. 
    Got it. No wonder many either back-pedal or walk on eggshells. 
    just today seth rogen is being skewered for his comments on israel and their illegitimacy as a nation (and he's jewish). 
    The whole not being allowed to criticize the nation of Israel’s policies thing is beyond my level of understanding.  
    come to think of it, it's the original "phobia", where any criticism or even question garners you instant enemy status. it's ridiculous. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
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