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That "avalanche, falling fast" change needs to change back

Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
edited June 2020 in The Porch
Update with the original version on No Code on Spotify etc, or offer both versions if it's a creative change (?) from rearviewmirror going forward (or did the original single way back when also contain this change?). 

Respect the piece of art and the integrity of it. Don't George Lucas yourself through your history. 

If it's a mistake it should have been corrected by now. No time to waste.
If it is a creative change then be like Spielberg and admit your wrong ways and (also) offer the original. The cops chased E.T and the kids with guns and not flashlights. And it's "circumstance, clapping hands" on No Code.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on

Comments

  • Long RedLong Red NY Posts: 185
    Never understood this change 
  • darthvedderdarthvedder Posts: 2,603
    You don't own the original CD or vinyl? This is what makes me nervous about streaming...they have the control.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
    darthvedder said:
    You don't own the original CD or vinyl? This is what makes me nervous about streaming...they have the control.
    Yes. I do. Thankfully. 

    And I can also find an old VHS of the original Star Wars editions. Or borrow the LD-set and a LD-player from my friend living on the other side of the country. 

    Doesn’t take away from the core of the problem. Sadly enough. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,572
    Long Red said:
    Never understood this change 
    Most likely the "avalanche version" was flagged on the original tape as being the final version. Usually last minute swaps lead to confusion (meaning the one we got in 96 was a late game change). And while they "got it right" in 96, when they had to go back to compile RVM or remaster for new vinyl reissue, they grabbed what was labeled as the final version.


    To be honest, I like having both versions. 




  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,572
    edited June 2020
    Also, the comparison to digital changes made to films is silly. If we are talking the changes made to tracks on Lost Dogs, then that would be an apt analogy.

    Its most likely an oversight, not a desired change. If it were, they wouldn’t be performing The 96 version live 


    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
  • NinetytworulesNinetytworules Boston Posts: 454
    I’m glad Han shot first!! 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
    edited June 2020
    Tim Simmons said:
    Also, the comparison to digital changes made to films is silly. If we are talking the changes made to tracks on Lost Dogs, then that would be an apt analogy.

    Its most likely an oversight, not a desired change. If it were, they would be performing it live like this. 


    Okey, if you will - compare it more to I don't know... New Line Cinema putting the R-rated version of The Dream Child in the A Nightmare on Elm Street-box set instead of the unrated cut (like the rest of films) which had been released prior on home video. Still a mistake that should be corrected, if possible. No questions about it.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
    edited June 2020
    Ninetytworules said:
    I’m glad Han shot first!! 
    On the vinyl re-issue I'm sorry, you gonna have to live with Greedo shooting first :)
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,572
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Also, the comparison to digital changes made to films is silly. If we are talking the changes made to tracks on Lost Dogs, then that would be an apt analogy.

    Its most likely an oversight, not a desired change. If it were, they would be performing it live like this. 


    Okey, if you will - compare it more to I don't know... New Line Cinema putting the R-rated version of The Dream Child in the A Nightmare on Elm Street-box set instead of the unrated cut (like the rest of films) which had been released prior on home video. Still a mistake that should be corrected, if possible. No questions about it.

    I guess thats fair. that being said I'm sure correcting it will be near the bottom on their list of priorities. It will most likely require a new master of maybe the whole record, or at the very least 2 tracks. Because Hail Hail's last note starts off the track. 


  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,572
    Also, is this a widespread issue/concern that people have had, or is this just Spiritual Chaos creating a thread?
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
    Tim Simmons said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Also, the comparison to digital changes made to films is silly. If we are talking the changes made to tracks on Lost Dogs, then that would be an apt analogy.

    Its most likely an oversight, not a desired change. If it were, they would be performing it live like this. 


    Okey, if you will - compare it more to I don't know... New Line Cinema putting the R-rated version of The Dream Child in the A Nightmare on Elm Street-box set instead of the unrated cut (like the rest of films) which had been released prior on home video. Still a mistake that should be corrected, if possible. No questions about it.

    I guess thats fair. that being said I'm sure correcting it will be near the bottom on their list of priorities. It will most likely require a new master of maybe the whole record, or at the very least 2 tracks. Because Hail Hail's last note starts off the track. 


    Hey wait a minute duuuudeeee, Whats the problem with Hail Hail? 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
    edited June 2020
    Tim Simmons said:
    Also, is this a widespread issue/concern that people have had, or is this just Spiritual Chaos creating a thread?
    Wrongly representing a historic work of art, should be everyone's concern. Mistake or not.

    The cost of a new master should not be in question for the next run - or the SUPERDELUXE 30 year anniversary boxset.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Vedd HeddVedd Hedd Posts: 4,614
    Han didnt "Shoot first"


    "only Han shot" is accurate.   

    :) ok carry on. 
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
    edited June 2020
    Vedd Hedd said:
    Han didnt "Shoot first"


    "only Han shot" is accurate.   

    :) ok carry on. 
    Are you saying George Lucas lies? :P


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,572
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Also, the comparison to digital changes made to films is silly. If we are talking the changes made to tracks on Lost Dogs, then that would be an apt analogy.

    Its most likely an oversight, not a desired change. If it were, they would be performing it live like this. 


    Okey, if you will - compare it more to I don't know... New Line Cinema putting the R-rated version of The Dream Child in the A Nightmare on Elm Street-box set instead of the unrated cut (like the rest of films) which had been released prior on home video. Still a mistake that should be corrected, if possible. No questions about it.

    I guess thats fair. that being said I'm sure correcting it will be near the bottom on their list of priorities. It will most likely require a new master of maybe the whole record, or at the very least 2 tracks. Because Hail Hail's last note starts off the track. 


    Hey wait a minute duuuudeeee, Whats the problem with Hail Hail? 
    Nothing.  But because Hail Hail last note starts off WYA, they'll need to remaster them both (possibly the whole record) so that they flow with the same levels. 


    Or they could just rip the 96 CD and upload that. But seeing as everything gets remastered now, they'll remaster it. 


  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
    edited June 2020
    Tim Simmons said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Also, the comparison to digital changes made to films is silly. If we are talking the changes made to tracks on Lost Dogs, then that would be an apt analogy.

    Its most likely an oversight, not a desired change. If it were, they would be performing it live like this. 


    Okey, if you will - compare it more to I don't know... New Line Cinema putting the R-rated version of The Dream Child in the A Nightmare on Elm Street-box set instead of the unrated cut (like the rest of films) which had been released prior on home video. Still a mistake that should be corrected, if possible. No questions about it.

    I guess thats fair. that being said I'm sure correcting it will be near the bottom on their list of priorities. It will most likely require a new master of maybe the whole record, or at the very least 2 tracks. Because Hail Hail's last note starts off the track. 


    Hey wait a minute duuuudeeee, Whats the problem with Hail Hail? 
    Nothing.  But because Hail Hail last note starts off WYA, they'll need to remaster them both (possibly the whole record) so that they flow with the same levels. 


    Or they could just rip the 96 CD and upload that. But seeing as everything gets remastered now, they'll remaster it. 


    They should replace the vocal track on Hail Hail with a take with Eddie giving an extra 5-7% punch. And have an extended outro with Jeff doing that Queen-bassline thing he does live. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,572
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Also, is this a widespread issue/concern that people have had, or is this just Spiritual Chaos creating a thread?
    Wrongly representing a historic work of art, should be everyone's concern. Mistake or not.
    This is probably overstating it, but OK.

  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
    edited June 2020
    Tim Simmons said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Also, is this a widespread issue/concern that people have had, or is this just Spiritual Chaos creating a thread?
    Wrongly representing a historic work of art, should be everyone's concern. Mistake or not.
    This is probably overstating it, but OK.

    I don't think it is. On principle it it still important. 

    What if Criterion released Citizen Kane on 4K and by accident released a version with a take where Orson Welles adlibs something else than "rosebud"?

    Or if they re-released Sgt Pepper on vinyl but flubbed the order of the songs?

    Not a supermistake. But should be corrected. To keep the timeline correct and the historic product respected and intact. 

    As they released new discs of Back to the Future when they fucked up the aspect ratio. Or if it was not by accident -- as Spielberg released the original cut of ET even though they spent money on a version with CG-flashlights. 

    Right now it's like that Simpsons episode where Homer time travels to parallel versions of reality that are all crazy, and in the end he settles on the one where the only difference is that Marge, Bart and Lisa eat their food with lizard tongues. Homers world isn't all destroyed, his family just have lizard tounges. But he is still in the twilight zone.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,572
    edited June 2020
    Because they changed 3 words in a song? IDK man. I think you are being way too precious with this. It’s certainly not Rosebud or aspect ratios or rated edits. In fact, I don’t think it’s in the realm of any of those things.

    The cinematic equivalent would probably be a slightly different take used for a scene. 

    Like going back to your SW analogy, Lucas released a 70mm cut in 79(?), it had a few different takes of the exact same scenes and some slightly altered sound effects (because of using different takes). 

    It’s probably akin to that. Like a scene where there were 3 blaster shots by a storm trooper, but we only heard 2. 

    The integrity is still there, just a touch different in things that don’t really affect the whole. 
    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,871
    edited June 2020
    Tim Simmons said:
    Because they changed 3 words in a song? IDK man. I think you are being way too precious with this. It’s certainly not Rosebud or aspect ratios or rated edits. In fact, I don’t think it’s in the realm of any of those things.
    I am not saying it destroys the very fabric of my world when spinning the vinyl. Never have. It's still Marge with a lizard tounge.

    And, I don't think it not being world-fabric-destroying takes away from the Pearl Jam team to dot down on a "to do" list to fix it. Updating the song on various streaming services should have started the moment they realized "Dudes. I'm tripping out now -- this isn't the version released back in 96!? " and any new pressing on vinyl/cd/cassette/8mm visualizer should be corrected. Because of reasons given in this thread.

    Or, if it was a creative choice by whoever - a reason for it should have in some way been given when the switcheroo happened. And, my opinion - both versions should then be made available. 

    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,941
    edited June 2020
    The change sounds so awkward. No clue why they changed it for RVM and subsequent releases. 

    Not as lame as the re-recorded versions of Dirty Frank and Alone on Lost Dogs though. 
    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
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  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,572
    Yeah, to me it feels like those differences you would hear (or not hear as the case may be) when you'd hear a mono mix of a track or the stereo mix. 
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,572
    Its also possible the original master of the 96 version was ruined or lost and this is all that exists anymore.

    I don't think the band or management NEED to comment on it, but I think its worth of a question at a Reddit AMA or Xm call in show or something. 


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